Ithica 1911

[SManly]

I'm thinking of purchasing a 1911 and I was wondering if the Ithica is a good brand to buy?

[stans]

Ithaca, and Remington-Rand, were made during WW-II. Parts are fully interchangable with Colt 1911-A1's. If it is in original condition with a good finish, it is a collectable. If it has been modified or assembled from spare parts, it is more of a shooter.

[dinosaur]

I have a R.R. which I bought many years ago for $200. It has an old, old nickle job and is a great shooter. I think the Ithica if it`s in original condition would be worth more than a R.R. in the same shape as R.R. made the most contract guns. The problem is most dealers think they`re really made of gold.

[ATeaM]

Ithaca has a new collector's 1911 out that is made from the same slide and frame as Kimber without all the goofy looking excess.

[DMK]

1927 Argentine Sistema's are very good also.

They are 1911A1 compatable like the others, just not made in the USA if that matters. That usually means they sell for less.

You can usually find a couple for sale on Gunbroker.com

[Jim V]

ATeaM, how long ago did you see the Ithaca pistol? I was just at their web site and could not find reference to it. I know that a few years ago there was mention of them producing (selling) a 1911 that was to follow their WWII production but the photos provided were not of a milspec pistol.

[Steven Mace]

I think ATeaM is refering to Ithaca's 50th Semi-Auto Anniversary Model. These were manufactured from 1995-1997. They were originally sold through All American Sales, Inc. located in Memphis, TN. Since there were only 125 made you don't see one too very often. In excellent condition in the original case & factory certificate thr Ithaca 50th Anniversary Model could be worth about $600-$700.

Steve Mace

[DD698]

Many different companies made the 1911 for US forces during WW2. Ithaca also made them for England under the lend-lease program . I had occasion to carry a 1911 that was made by Union Switch and Signal while in the service. Does anyone if th is pistol is considered rare?

[SManly]

Thanks for all the info. I'm kind of guessing that the Ithica is more of a collector's item than something I'd use for home protection.

[ATeaM]

Too bad :(

[stans]

DD698, yes, the US&S pistols are very rare. I have seen only one slide in the last seven or eight years.

[Steven Mace]

I have to agree with stans. There were only 55,000 1911A1's manufactured by Union Switch & Signal in 1943. Today, in excellent condition one could be worth about $1,150-$1,500.

Steve Mace

[dsk]

Try closer to $2k and above for a minty US&S. $1500 will buy you a refinished or altered one. I paid $1850 for mine a year ago from a fellow collector, and it's in about 90% shape.

BTW all Ithacas were made for the US government and were so marked. Under the Lend-Lease program weapons were taken from existing stores to sell to the British. It just so happens that a substantial number of those were new Ithacas.

[DD698]

HEY Guys Thanks for the info on my old military sidekick.To bad I didnt take it home with me. Neil

[dsk]

The Union Switch & Signal M1911A1s were very well made. The reason why only 55,000 were manufactured is because they were the last company to receive a contract for pistols by the US government during WW2. Just as US&S began production in early 1943 the military decided that the other manufacturers (Colt, Remington Rand, and Ithaca) were producing all the .45s they would need for that year, so US&S's contract got cut down to only 30,000 pistols. Well, just as they were wrapping up production and transferring workers to other projects the military did a sudden about-face, and they requested 25,000 more pistols to make up for a production shutdown at Remington Rand (they were having some minor QC issues). It took US&S until the end of the year to resume production and crank out the remaining pistols.

In retrospect, I think the military probably wished they had ash-canned Ithaca's contract instead, for they had QC issues throughout the entire war and their production rate was slow compared to the other contractors (rest assured however that any Ithaca you see for sale is a quality piece, since the bad ones were usually rejected by Ordnance inspectors and scrapped).

Anyway, here's a pic of my US&S. Just so you know, originally they were finished in a matte "Du-Lite" blue, not parkerizing.

http://www.nwlink.com/~dkamm/USSl.jpg

[wine9er]

Lots of good comments here regards the Ithica production units. But how are the WW2 Remington Rand military .45's percieved? I
picked up a '48 in excellent condition for $300 based on TFL feedback(haven't shot it- yet-comfort issue).

[dinosaur]

Like I said, my R.R is a great shooter. Even the mag is nickled and I`ll bet the springs are original. I haven`t shot it in a long time and it fed ball flawlessly. Other types of ammo were sometimes a problem but there`s so much new stuff on the market, who knows? I won`t carry it anyway as I have enough newer guns for that. Interesting piece. I`d like to know why it was refinished but I wouldn`t sell it anyway.

If you just want a shooter, the Argie guns are a good bet. If you`re looking for U. S. military history, you may have to pay for it.

[dsk]

Lots of good comments here regards the Ithica production units. But how are the WW2 Remington Rand military .45's percieved?

Remington Rand made M1911A1s from 1943 until 1945. During that time period they actually produced the most pistols of any wartime contractor, over 800,000 units. Colt was second with over 600,000, and Ithaca was way back in third place with a little over 300,000 made. As a result, you're actually more likely to come across a Remington Rand than any other WW2 .45! The company was very aggressive at refining their manufacturing techniques and actually produced their guns at a lower cost to the government than any other manufacturer. By late in the war most of their refined production methods had actually been adopted by Colt and Ithaca (who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?). An example of this was related to why R-R had the production shutdown I mentioned above. Early in their production some of their pistols failed parts interchangablility tests, plus their production rate wasn't up to what the government expected. As a result they shut down their factory completely, rearranged the machines to make the parts in sequential order, made up some new tooling and gauges, and then resumed production in late 1943. The resulting guns had quality that equalled Colt's, with very few rejected guns coming out of the batches. As a collector's note, the early "pre-shutdown" pistols had serial numbers beginning with "No." (small underlined "o"). The later guns all had numbers beginning with "NO.".