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View Full Version : Looking around for small pistols...


Ceol Mhor
June 21, 2002, 12:39 PM
I'm not planning on buying another pistol quite yet, but I'm trying to get a good feel for what's out there...

I'm looking into small pistols good for CCW/backup duty. I'm thinking either .32 or .380...how much practical difference is there between those? I also definitely want a good-looking gun. As they say, life's too short to shoot an ugly gun. I've looked at the Kahrs, Kel-Tecs, and small Glocks, and they all failed the "good-looking" test. The ones I've found that seem to be good are:
Walther PPK
Bersa Thunder
Firestorm
Sig P230/P232
Sauer & Sohn 38H
CZ-70

I would really like an older gun (by old, I mean pre-WWII), assuming it would run well (they have more character, and my Dad has a C&R which would facilitate purchase). Can anyone give me some pros and cons of the guns I mentioned? What others are there that would fit my criteria?

Thanks!

Thirties
June 21, 2002, 01:39 PM
Pistolet Makarova 9x18, military surplus or new commercial.

9mmepiphany
June 21, 2002, 02:15 PM
makarov

Ceol Mhor
June 21, 2002, 02:59 PM
Oh yeah....I'd forgotten about Makarovs.

Does anyone know of any other reliable and good-looking small C&R semi-auto pistols?

bikeguy
June 21, 2002, 03:09 PM
For good looking, the Sig P230 in Stainless or a PPKS are both beautiful, but both are heavy as heck and not small enough in comparison to a compact 9mm to justify it (in my opinion).

Pretty good difference between the .380 and the .32, but if you are wanting a really concealable gun (as in put in in your pocket and no one can tell) the only choice in .380 is an NAA Guardian in .380. Personally, I carry a Kahr P9 on my hip and just bought a Kel-Tec P32 to put in my pocket when the Kahr is not an option.

Of the ones you mentione, I'm most familiar with the Sig, the Walther, and the Bersa. Of the three I would choose the Sig first (nice trigger pull, nice looks, good reliability), then the Bersa (decent trigger pull, decent looks, decent shooter) and then the Walther - the DA trigger on the Walther feels like lifting a Volkswagen with your index finger..

QB
June 21, 2002, 10:40 PM
The Sphinx AT380 M is a great little .380. It's double action but has a very light, crisp breaking trigger. I was absolutely shocked at the accuracy of this gun. I initially had purchased a like new one at my local gun shop (the day it came in for sale) and liked it so much that I recently purchased 3 more of them (for a total of 2 in all palladium finish and 2 two-tone). It's hard to find new ones but you can if you look hard enough. Sphinx is going to import again to the US soon so you could wait for a new production one I suppose. I just happen to like their "old" palladium finish and that won't be offered in the new guns.

I swear by this gun because it's accuracy, fit & finish is stunning. I never thought I'd say I liked a .380 but I'm sold on this one (obviously).

"Spanki" goes with me everywhere!!!!!!

yukon999
June 22, 2002, 04:40 AM
I own a cz-70 and I am in love with it. They do have some minor problems though.

1. Firing pins are fairly brittle which means no dry firing but the saf t caps solve this problem also new ones can be found as well as replacements which are supposed to help with the trigger pull also. these can be found at www.makarov.com

2. the magazines are not 100% reliable with more than 5 rounds of JHP ammo unless you take a dremel to them which is a fairly easy fix. FMJ has no problems.

3. the front blade of the sight can be a little hard to see but with a little white paint it is much better. Also www.makarov.com has custom gunsmithing which they can replace the sights.

I think these are very reasonably priced guns I paid 119.00 for mine but they can be found for as cheap as 80.00 online with 2 mags and a holster. I found the accuracy to be great under 10 yards but with the small caliber it would be hard to get much more out of it using any gun. I would recommend this gun to anyone. Magazines, and parts are still very redily available.

bullet44
June 22, 2002, 06:51 AM
One(1) good 380, FEG SMC380.

bluesoftail
June 22, 2002, 07:16 AM
Check out a North American Arms "Guardian". They offer it in .32, and .380. I love mine. It will pass the "Looks" test for sure. Quality is superb.

sling
June 22, 2002, 07:18 AM
Seecamp .32ACP.....Winchester Silvertip ammo

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/sling762x39/976217761-2.jpg

johnwill
June 22, 2002, 09:08 AM
and my Dad has a C&R which would facilitate purchase
FYI, purchasing a pistol with a C&R with the express intent to sell or transfer ownership is a felony. My point here is, while it's very hard to prove that happened, posting such comments won't help your case if it ever does come up.

trapshooter
June 23, 2002, 12:54 AM
If you really want pre-WWII, have you looked around for a Colt .32 Auto? Hammerless, with a bit of a long barrel, but slim, trim, and racy, in it's own way. They show up in stores occassionally, and are not bad CCW guns at all once you check them for function and maybe spend some bucks for reconditioning, assuming you find one that has no value as a wall-hanger.

Otherwise, I'd look around for a Walther, or the Sig. The 232 has a very nice feel, IMO.

GeorgeH
June 23, 2002, 12:03 PM
Look at the North American Arms Guardian series of guns. Both the G32 and G380 are built like tanks.

HSMITH
June 23, 2002, 12:14 PM
Seecamp is probably the best, an older PPK in 32 is a great gun but a tad heavy. Both will cost you a pretty penny, but are well worth the price.

GeorgeH
June 23, 2002, 01:53 PM
I own 3 Seecamps. One 25 ACP and 2 32 ACPs ( 1 pre and 1 post CNC machining). Yes, the 32's are jewels, but there are certain advantages with the Guardian that the Seecamps don't have. First, you need a drift punch and case to field strip the Seecamp, which you do not need with the Guardian. The Guardian can shoot any 32 ammo, but the Seecamp is limited to Winchester Silvertips only, if it is below SN 30,500. SN over 30,500 can use other JHP's except for Federal. Also, the Seecamp cannot chamber hardball. The Guardian has a Browning style mag release, while the Seecamp doesn't. And finally, price. You can buy 2 Guardian's for what the Seecamp go for. With a Guardian you have a choice for aftre market sights. Seecamp has no sights and no after market sights are available.

hoplophile
June 23, 2002, 02:46 PM
Seecamps sell for about $450.00 now. Are Guardians down to $225?

GeorgeH
June 23, 2002, 06:35 PM
Hi hoplophile:

Yesterday, I saw a Seecamp for sale at a gun show in Mt. Clemens, Michigan. Its price tag read $750. The Guardian 32 next to it was $329. The Guardian is a hair bigger and 2 ozs heavier then the Seecamp. If the Guardian had been available 14 years ago, I would not have bought my first Seecamp. Don't get mewrong, I like the Seecamp, but overall I think the Guardian 32 is a far better gun.

Ceol Mhor
June 23, 2002, 06:54 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

johnwill - I forgot to mention this is for a possible birthday gift from my parents this summer.

johnwill
June 24, 2002, 07:54 AM
You can get your parents to buy their own birthday presents? Boy, I'd love for you to share that secret! :)

MikeJ
June 24, 2002, 08:25 AM
My suggestions are the Sig 230/232 or one of the NAA Guardians. I have the Sig 230 in stainless (.380) and the NAA Guardian in.32 and think they are both great pistols but they serve two very different roles. The Sig is carried IWB and the Guardian can go with me everywhere regardless of what I am wearing. In my opinion stay away from the Walther, I agree with bikeguy about their triggers, they are horrendous and IMHO just can't compare to the Sig.

22lovr
June 24, 2002, 09:13 AM
beauty is more than skin-deep, especially with a good handgun!

Oh well, if you can't stand the looks of the KelTec P32, look no further than the North American Arms Guardian. They also have an excellent website that you would enjoy exploring. NAA makes quality products and exhibits excellent customer service. For the price, quality, reliability, and customer support, the NAA Guardian, either in .32 auto or .380 acp is hard to beat.

As far as an older backup handgun, to each his own, but I'd definitely opt for a current offering. Handgun and ammo technology has come quantum leaps since WWII. If you're using it for self-defense, definitely stick with something current/new.

Handy
June 24, 2002, 10:07 AM
The Mauser HSc is about the nicest looking .380 I've seen. They were built before and after WWII. Very high quality.

The various FEG pistols are really nicely made and are often less than $200.

Wilson2
June 24, 2002, 02:06 PM
FYI...North American Arms is coming out with a new Guardian soon that shoots a new cartridge, the .32NAA. They have information posted on their website and it looks interesting. Here is a link: http://www.naaminis.com/32NAArel.html

I have their Guardian in .32 ACP and it has performed just fine.

I've also had a SIG 230 in .380 ACP for nearly 10 years and practiced a fair amount with it. It has never had a failure of any sort.

I've had a Bersa (pre-Thunder, but very similar) in .380 for almost 10 years and it also has never had any failures, however, I probably haven't put more than 150 - 200 rounds down range since I have owned it.

The guys suggesting a Makarov are giving you a great idea. Those are amazing guns for the money and its cartridge (9X18) is a bit more powerful.

Good luck with your decision.

Wilson2

Rickmeister
June 24, 2002, 02:35 PM
Given those tight restrictions, I'd say the Walther PPK or Bersa Thunder are you best bet. I don't have the PPK, but my Bersa's been plinking away happily for six months now, and has never so much as hiccupped. Eats almost everything too. I had almost completely forgotten I owned one, until I rediscovered it.

On a separate note: You sure you won't reconsider the Kahr? I think it looks all right... in a rough, tough, blocky sorta way. Also, it shoots like a dream and conceals very well.

Your pick.

bad_dad_brad
June 24, 2002, 09:07 PM
Who cares about looks (unless we are talking about a lady). Go with Kel Tec P32. It is incredibly light and perfectly concealable - the perfect .32 (just don't shoot it too much, save that for your Glock - it is a fragile little thing).

SteveC
June 24, 2002, 11:45 PM
Someone else already mentioned the Colt 1903 hammerless, there is also a 1908 hammerless in .380. And I think Husqvarna (sp?) had a clone of it. I think they have a lot of character, are very, very flat and feel good in your hand. But the safeties on them are kind of small and hard to work - you can probably get someone to silver solder on a small extension, if you really wanted to. The ones I've seen were made incredibly tight as well - they were manufactured to a different standard than guns today. But finding one in good condition won't be cheap. They also have these itty, bitty pimples for sights and are not as accurate as modern .32's, but they have longer barrels for some more velocity.
A cool gun to have, but maybe not the most practical choice for personal defense.

There are those old Beretta 1934's in .380, they have a kind of funky italian fascist look about them :-) If I remember correctly, it was on that model that Beretta began their open topped slide tradition. I think there is a .32 version of it as well. No idea how they shoot, but saw and handled one at a gun show.

The Walther PPK in .380 is supposed to be a dog - a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. I shot one years ago, and it reminded me of having a firecracker explode while I was holding it. It is supposed to be better in .32, but I read that the safety has issues, and will sometimes slip halfway into safe, making the gun fail to shoot, and apparently costing some German policemen their lives.

If you are looking at a gun the size of a CZ-70, you ought to upgrade to the CZ-83. An excellent "little" gun, great trigger, decent sights, well made. The Sig P232 will give you somewhat less gun for your money, but very sexy looks - the gun the Walther PPK is supposed to be.

Steve

Dwight M S
June 25, 2002, 08:23 PM
Ceol Mhor

I think you're an esthete like me so, assuming that and considering what you said you've had in mind, I'd recommend a Sig 230 if you can shoot well with it.

Dwight M S