CZ-97B Knocks my socks off!

[George Hill]

The boys at Ceska Zbrojovka know how to make a .45 – Nuff Said.
The CZ forums Guys keep saying how big the 97 is. Feh. It’s the same size as a Government Model 1911, and maybe even a little thinner. In the hand, I have to admit, it feels BETTER than my Springfield did.
The stock wood grips are just perfect, and I see or feel no reason to change them. They offset the black polycoat finish beautifully. They are keepers.

Looks good, feels good, yada yada yada… but how does it shoot?

SWEETNESS. My first 9 shots were all just a ragged hole, with one flyer. My last shot I jerked the trigger and pulled it off to the right. Oh well. I can live with that. Another 3 shot group, all in one .45 caliber hole. I have a witness to these claims, and will post photos as well. Oh, the ammunition used was Triton Hi-Vel 230 grain +P. The gun was 100%. I also tried a box of some of the new “NOT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT” SPEER LAWMAN Frangible, which was almost as accurate, and cycled perfectly, accept for one round that had a bad primer. I ejected the round, looked at the dimple in the primer – looked like a normal hit with a deep dent in it – so it was ammo and not gun. Other than that 1 stupid round (hence the tag on the box in red letters that warned not for law enforcement) the gun ran flawlessly, accurately, and just plain sweet.

My overall impression is above favorable. Way beyond impressed. This CZ knocked my socks off. The quality is right up there with the best of production guns. I’ll put this CZ up against the beloved SIG P220. No second thought about that either. As good as a P220? No question. And as your guys know, I favor the SIG above all other double action .45s, even more than the HK USP. Sure, the HK has an advantage for being a freaking TANK and being able to shoot .45 Super loads as is… but If I was to enlist with a PD, it wouldn’t be my first choice. Up to this point, that 1st choice would be the SIG. Now, it’s a toss-up between the SIG and CZ. The only shortcoming the CZ has, is that it doesn’t have a decocker… and for that reason alone the SIG beats it. But face it, the 1911 doesn’t have a decocker either… and if you’re a 1911 guy and don’t feel the need to have one, then it is not an issue and in that case – the CZ is just fine. If I was a cop looking for a duty weapon, I’d take a CZ-97 with out a second thought. Great gun. Just a solid and great gun.

I’m blown away.
The gun is better than expected or hoped for.
Pictures coming soon.

[Erik]

But could you find a department approved holster for one?

A "problem" with the CZ line is that US equipment makers donlt do much by way of catering to them. Ok! OK! It's not CZ's fault, I know.

[Spackler]

George, if you don't mind me asking, how was the thing priced? I have not seen one here so I don't have a clue what they are asking.

Thanks

[C.R.Sam]

Wear shoes.

[Eric Larsen]

Man....CZ got another one! :D You just reiterated what Ive heard about them for a while now. Pretty nice review Goerge...ok, get the witnesses! :D
Shoot well

[Redlg155]

I was wondering where that smell came from.:D

Good Shooting
RED

[George Hill]

Holsters are a question. I don't think there are any Level III rigs out there. That's a problem, I'll admit it. But there are holsers out there for concealment and such.
Perhaps there is a holster made for another gun that a 97 will fit in? I don't know yet.
One thing is for sure - the gun just freaking rocks. Tenacious D would say it "rocks your freakin socks off!" And it does.

(this image - that is a full 10 rounds in that target)

[CZ_]

.....that loves his CZ 97B. I've had a CZ 97B for about a year, and it is my most accurate semi-automatic centerfire pistol (it puts my 9mm Sig Sauers to shame in accuracy). Recoil is mild--not much more than 9mm, and the grip fits my hand perfectly! The CZ 97B is a reasonably priced production gun that can shoot right with semi-custom 1911's (such as top-of-the-line Kimber models). The tolerances are tight for a production gun, and the outside finish and metal work is very good.

My only complaints are the magazines (they don't really "feel" well made to me and are hard to load to capacity), and the poor internal metal work. The internal metal work on my CZ 97B is sloppy with a high degree of tool marks on the inner parts of the slide. This is purely cosmetic though, cause so far the sloppy internal finish / metal work has had NO detrimental affects on performance.

[George Hill]

Here is another pic.

[George Hill]

Here is the one with the 3 shot 1 hole group.

I love this gun. Awesome!

If I have a compaint... it's the grip screws. Philips Head screws? Kinda odd. Is it me, or does it look cheap? I'll have to look for some replacement screws. It is nothing really, it just that these look kinda "off" to me.

[dZ]

FAlco makes a 97 holster:
http://makarov.com/falco/

heres some others:
http://www.haugenhandgunleather.com/HHLindex.html
http://www.highnoonholsters.com/What_s_New/what_s_new.html

[Foxy]

Nice groups there :)

What range was that? From a rest or offhand?

[tetchaje]

George,
How big is the CZ compared to your SIGs grip-wise? I have been debating getting a 97 for quite sometime, but I have been spooked away by fears that the grip won't fit my medium sized hands. I shoot my Dad's Gov't Model 1911 just fine, and all of the SIGs fit me well. How would you compare the grip size of the 97 to the 220?

Also, where in Utah did you find a 97?! I have searched high and low from Provo to Ogden to find one so that I wouldn't have to buy sight unseen. I'd really like to track one down in a shop so that I can compare between guns and hold the 97.

Thanks for the review! :)

[George Hill]

The shooting was done offhand from a modified weaver stance. Range, not sure, 15 yards? It was the spot with the best light down the lane (Rangermasters in Springville). This is one limitation of indoor ranges... unless your hanging it under a good light, it can be pretty dank and dark. Some would say that's good, but for checking a guns grouping, not idea. Benching is nice... but who benches in a gunfight?

It was ordered in from out of state. Look around for a Witness .45 as the grips are the same. Similarities pretty much end there. I went into this deal with a "Suprise Me" attitude. I'm suprised. And well pleased.
Speaking of the grips, it's about the same size as a SIG P220 but shaped a little better for the hand, and more grippy due to the checkered wood.

[foghornl]

George:

Great review...factual and enlightening. I haven't seen a CZ in my 2 local shops, but based on the good stuff I've been reading on TFL, may have to buy one & find out for myself.

A question about that Speer "Lawman...Not for LE" ammo. It seems a bit odd to me that a line of ammo would be called "Lawman", but marked NOT for LE. Whats up with that?

[RWK]

George,

Slightly off topic.

Funny thing, I, too, was just bitten by the "CZ bug". Last weekend I bought (have not yet received) my first CZ, a 75B. I love all my revolvers and certainly have many outstanding autoloaders, but a low $300 price for a top-quality 9x19 (including 15 and 10 round magazines) just seemed like too good a deal to decline. If this CZ lives up to my expectation -- based on the many kudos CZ semiautomatics have received on TFL and elsewhere -- I will certainly buy a 97B within a year. The 75B may also become my daily carry piece; the idea of 31 rounds (15+1 and 15) from a highly accurate, reliable, top-quality autoloader is very appealing.

I hope to have the 75B by Sunday and will post a range report after my fist session.

[George Hill]

The "NOT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT" was stamped and not printed... meaning these loads were factory seconds. Hence not suprising the reluctant primer.

The next gun I ever get may very well be another CZ. A CZ-75B SA. If your in Utah and can run down to Rangemasters they have one there. Very nice. Let me say that again... Very Nice. A 75B with a Single Action trigger. Tempting. Too bad job situation prevents that investment.
BTW, Rangemasters has got the FFL back (ATF printed the wrong address on the renewed one, and they had to send it back stating "you guys made as error, that is not our address". So ATF had to "look into it" and the finally confirmed Rangemasters is in the same place it has always been) so if your in Utah wanting a CZ - go there. Fast. Because if I get a job, I'm getting it!

BTW, some of you are wondering, how did I get a 97 if I've been unemployed for 6 months... I traded off my 1911 for it. My Springfield is no longer mine. Not the first Springfield I sold. First one was a TRP with Ashleys and a Bob Tail conversion. Sweet gun. Anyways, the Springfield for a 97... I'd do this deal again. No problem. Actually I'd just buy the 97s outright and save a couple hundred.
Did I mention that the gun is accurate?

[Dave R]

I believe the folks at Milt Sparks will make you a Versa-Max II IWB custom fit for that CZ for around $69.

By the way, I think those targets will significantly improve your shooting.

[George Hill]

I was thinking the Utah TFL members will get a kick out them. Utah football fans are polarized UofU / BYU. I'm a BYU fan myself. Went to the Y. Live near the Y. The Y has a Trophy winner in it's history. I don't see that from the U. :p :p :p

Besides, they do make great targets. LOL.

[Steve Smith]

I hate you for showing me this. six months ago, I said, "Ha, I don't need any more guns." Uhh...I can't afford everything I want, now! It seems to go in cycles.

[Correia]

U of U/BYU, forget them both! Go Aggies! :) (Alumni of the forgotten college up by the Idaho line).

George, I'm glad you like the CZ. Bring it with you tonight. I want to shoot it.

Yep, I found this gun for George. Kind of complicated. But through my insance machinations I was able to get George the CZ he wanted, and get his 1911 to another local TFLer who has been craving a GM forever. Then I hooked up a buddy of mine with a beautiful security six for a great price, and five of my poor relatives with police trade ins for next to nothing. That is 7 shooters united with their guns in the last month. I'm the Gun Fairy, La La La La. :p :)

[George Hill]

You think I could leave it at home? ;)

But hell no... you can't shoot this one.
Every gun of mine that you shoot - you end up getting! Stay Away from my CZ!!!
:D :p ;)

[shepsan]

I belong to the group who believe that the CZ97B is the best value, dollar for dollar, of any handgun on the market today.

Mine is well made with good solid steel. The parts work together the way they should. It is an accurate shooter at the distances I shoot (5, 10, 15 and 25 yards).

It may not have greater dimensions than my 1911's, but in my hand, it feels much larger. No one should buy this handgun if the purpose is to carry concealed. It cannot be done comfortably. However, for home protection or simply to use for the joy of target shooting, the CZ97B is a great pistol.

A photo of mine is posted along with its 25 yard target and my collection of 1911's and their targets at:

http://groups.msn.com/ShepsansCollection/shoebox.msnw

Regards to all

[Zak Smith]

George, how is the trigger?

[George Hill]

The take down is easy. Unload, pull slide back to the line up the marks. Pop out the slide stop pin, pull slide off the front. Remove the recoil spring, spring plug, and then unscrew the barrel bushing. Pull out the barrel.
Looking inside the slide I can see tool marks, but seriously and in all honesty - they are not as bad many of the "High Quality" guns that I've had. Less pronounced tool marks than in my last 2 SIGs and my HK USP. The quality of the machining and the tollerances of the parts is fantastic. Everything fits "right".
The only part that give me a raised eye brow is the recoil spring guide rod. It's plastic. Why the hell is there a plastic part inside this gun? That should be steel and it should be milled on a lathe. I suspect replacement parts are handed out like candy from CZ-USA. I'm not concerned about it. It doesn't effect the way it shoots. But still, in a gun of this quality it like a BMW M5 that has the front bumper off a Ford Focus. I don't care what the rational is behind it, it just doesn't belong.
The slide cycles smoothly, almost as smooth as a SIG P220. Almost. Let's let it wear in a bit and I bet it will smooth out nicely.
The trigger is typical DA/SA. Heavy DA, but not gritty. The SA has some take up, but that is something I actually like. Especially on a DUTY GUN. SA breaks at about 5 or 6 pounds... and there is some over travel... but that is something that a CZ armorer can adjust and remedy. Still, it's much better than most HK triggers save the P7... and on par with most other guns, SIGs included.
Last night when it was fired, it was fired full of the original packing grease.
Now that that gunk is wiped off and a nice coating of CLP is over everything... it feels even better.
I'd love to see some cats like Terry Tussy and those of his ilk get some 97s to work over. I suspect the results would be shockingly delicious.
I could see a CZ-97 cottage industry growing around these guns.
You gotta love the owners manual. It's printed in 3 languages. Native Check, English, and German. A true international pistol.
The magazines are made in Itally by MecGar. They may "Feel" cheap... but they are just fine. Good quality. Doesn't MecGar make the mags for SIG? Whatever - they are decent enough for me that is for sure. They are also as they say "Good and Plenty" and more can be had for only 22 bucks each. Witness mags work just fine in it. Meaning gunshows will have them around no problem.
Damn good gun.
One of the best values out there? You gotta be kidding... did you see that .45 caliber 3 shot group?
One other note... Stratfordholdings had the complaint about ejection. He said it throws the cases out all over the place. I guess that is a downside if your a reloader. No nice little pile of brass to pick up. I don't care about that... I just want the empty brass out of the gun so the next round can chamber. Which it does just fine. I suspect that a good gunsmith could "tune" the extractor and make that more consistant.

Still, this gun is easily on par with any gun in the 800-1000 range. At least in my opinion based on shooting guns in that price range. With some work, this gun could EASILY run with the big dogs in the upper price ranges like those from Wilson Combat and the like. The guns that get on American Handjob's cover.
I would love to see the poliched blue version of the 97. Talk about sexy.

Notes to CZ:
1. Lose the philips head screws. They look chinsy.
2. Use a steel recoil spring guide rod.
3. Make an SA verision.
4. Recontour the safety lever just a tad... it is just a little hard to reach with my thumb while holding a good shooting grip. Just a little, but maybe that is just me.
5. The magazine brake. Totally unwanted or needed feature. You never see shooters taking the gun to the 'Smith saying "I wish it had a magazine brake in it". Yes, I know it can be "easily modified" to keep the brake from holding the mag - but still... the gun doesn't need it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, the CZ-97 rates a solid and strong 9. I think this gun has a bright future in the US.

[TaxPhd]

Dave R,

Your price is a little off. VM2's range from $95.50-122.50.

I would love one for $69!!

[RWK]

What I would absolutely love is for CZ to modify the 97B to take 10mm.
:)

[Oris]

Come on, George...

CZ-97B was around for a couple of years, and me and some other guys were giving it 5 star rating a long time ago...

Finally, you got in. Congrats. In a near future you'll pronounce it the best mass produced .45 around here. It sure beats the crap out of any 1911 which is not custimozed to unbelieable level of perfection, with just a grand a two on top of what it's worth. Not talking about HK and other overpiced options...

What puzzles me is your mentioning of heavy DA pull. MY 97 has the lightest DA pull I ever experienced in DA/SA pistols. much lighter than CZ75B I got. It's long, unless you use half cock,
then it's pretty short... Use half cock to feel completely satisfied...

Anyway, I'm happy you finally made it. Congrats again.

[George Hill]

I don't know about THE BEST or THE ULTIMATE... but sure, it's right up there at the tops of the list. And it is not "Perfect" either, as my notes to CZ point out.
Yes, I know it's been mentioned even as far back as a couple years ago. Still a 4 year old pistol is still practically a newborn. Let's see where it is in 20 years.
;)

[RANash]

OK then. WHO is the man to go to for the trigger job? Who is currently the man for CZ75's?

[The Walrus]

Mike at CZ-USA in Kansas City is their in-house gunsmith, from what i hear the trigger job rates are quite affordable.

[schild]

I'll tell you about my trigger job when Mike at CZ-USA gets done with it.

[Dave R]

Tax Phd, your math better than mine. VMII is around $100. I was thinking of the Watch-Six, which is the "economy" version of the VMII. That one is $69 on the web site now.

'Twould be a good home for the CZ.

[johnAK]

I love my cz-97B also, very very excellent gun,
one thing though, my cz-97B doesn't like wolf .45 ammo at all, so be careful.

[Russ]

Spackler,

Here in KY I have seen the 97B go for as low as $460. Mostly, they are a little over $500. When I lived in the PRK, the polished blue ones used to go on sale for $499 at Turners and the now defunct B & B.

[Jesse H]

Great review George, thanks!

Being a carnut, I'm amused at how you always make car analogies. How's the trigger reset?

I've been eyeing the 97 for a few months now. Even before I knew anything about them, I just wanted one cuz they were so damn good looking.

[Nightcrawler]

Should be in Tuesday. Can't wait! :D

[Blackhawk]

Here is the one with the 3 shot 1 hole group. That's really impressive!

How did you clean off the powder burns? :D

[Shake]

Hey George

Nice targets! :D

I'm with Correia. I graduated from USU, but have errr. . . defected as far as sports are concerned. Crowton's bunch is just too fun to watch. Can't wait to see Marcus Whalen play this year.

Hey, about the 97. Seems like I read while back about the bushing being plastic. Is it? I looked at one not too long ago, but didn't think to look for plastic parts. If it is plastic, do you think it will hold up? I'm wondering if there are steel replacements for it?

Is the frontstrap checkered? If not, do you think the steel is heavy enough there to handle a good checkering job?

The place I go to for CZs is Impact Tactical Weapons in Ogden. They usually have a few CZs in stock (once saw as many as 10-12 in the display). You can buy off the net if you are inclined to do so. HINT: Turn down your PC speakers if at work before going to this site :eek: !!

Impact Guns (http://www.impactguns.com/store/czhandgun.html)

$489 looks decent to me.

Shake

[George Hill]

The bushing isn't plastic, but it looks like aluminum. There IS plastic inside however... The guide rod. :rolleyes:

The other thing is the recoil spring. It's only 12 pounds. There is a 15 pound spring you can get from Wolf and if you shoot hot loads, you'll want that one.
It's not needed - the 97 is just fine right out of the box... but the firmer spring is something that can only help.

[MiniZ]

I never had a chance to handle a 97, but it has always appealed to me based on my experience with my 75.

I always managed to avoid the urge to buy one due to internet rumblings that the grip was too big. Now George has dispelled those grumblings for me.

*sigh* now I have to go talk my wife into letting me get a new gun.

[George Hill]

My bad. ;)

[Peter M. Eick]

George,

I will take a picture of my hi-gloss 97b and post it monday.

I noticed that yours does not have the front cocking serrations. Is this correct? My hi-gloss 97b is front and rear serrations.

I agree about the plastic guide ord, but what the heck. It has held up for several years with no problems.

I did find with my 97b that it is undersprung for ball loads. I would up the spring to a 16 or 18 lb one. I had a few used ones from my 10mm witness and they work great in the 97b.

Also I agree with whoever posted about the 97b tossing brass everywhere. What a pain for the reloaders!

[George Hill]

That was me too. Is there a metal guide rod out there that would work for the 97?

No, I don't have the front cocking serations... I'm pleased that I don't. I was wanting one that was without.

[pinetree]

I'm in the market for a 45acp. The CZ-97 is list as a DA/SA, if it doesn't have a decocker, how would one shoot DA? Are you suppose to manually drop the hammer?

Also, what is the availablity of extras like spare magazines and parts such as spings...

Thanks,
tjg

[George Hill]

Yup. Manually drop the hammer or just carry it locked and cocked since the "B" version is perfectly safe doing that.

[SteveC]

There was a plastic guide rod in my PCR. I asked the CZ gunsmith about it and the answer is that the plastic guide rod helps to to cushion the impact of the slide against the frame.

I think I read that a few of the .40 CZ's had cracked frames or slides, which got replaced of course, and plastic guide rods or recoil buffs or whatever were also given out.

If you go with a steel guide rod, it may be wise to get stronger recoil springs and/or a recoil buffer. The CZ-97 is a hefty peice of hardware, but the steel may be a little on the hard side and not handle the pounding well.

Steve

[George Hill]

I've ordered a 16# spring from Wolff.
That should do it.

I've noticed that I am starting to get a repeating failure with one of the mags. One of the shots in about the middle of the mag will nose straight into the feed ramp, hollow point's mouth biting the bottom of the ramp. Hard. And then the last round will do the neat trick of standing straight up while the base is still held in the mag.
What the heck is up with THAT? These are the most annoying jams EVER.
DRIVES ME NUTS!
Ammo used... Triton Hi Vel. The gun shoots it as accurately as all get out... but I think with the light recoil spring... It's too much for it. Tastes great but gives the poor CZ a tummy ache.

[QB]

I think the Phillips head grip screws on the CZs detract from the gun also. I couldn't find a hex head grip screw for the CZs but did order some slotted grip screws from Brownells and they look 100% better (to me).

[oops]

George,

CZ can convert your 97B to S/A. I believe they use the trigger from the Champion and some other modifications. Look for a thread about this over at the CZ forum.

[Peter M. Eick]

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/cz97b_1.JPG
Here is my 97b, It is pretty glossy, so I could not get a clean focus on it.


http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/97b_p9.JPG

The closest polish I have to the CZ is my P9ultra. (Note the nice new Briley barrel!)

By the way, the P9 has about 5000 rnds down it and the CZ has about 3000 rnds but I did not check the record book.

[SteveC]

One of the mags on my PCR worked great, but another one wouldn't hold more than 9 rounds. I had to take a little off the bottom of the mag follower's legs before it would handle 10 rounds.

I think the mags are the most common complaint from CZ owners. I think the typical situation is you get one good mag and one that is pretty marginal.

Steve

[Zak Smith]

Do all the 97's have the loaded-chamber indicator? Who can explain it? Does it have any effect on reliability?

Which 97's have the forward serrations?

thanks
-z

[George Hill]

Not sure about the serrations but the chamber indicator is farly clever. A simple plunger that pops up a small pin when there is a cartridge in the chamber. It doesnt have any adverse effects and works well. I like it. No "Press Checks" needed.

[Peter M. Eick]

The only forward serration models "I" have seen are the glossy's like mine. Mine is an "A5xxx" series so this may also be part of it.

Great gun and amazingly accurate!

[Marko II]

My 97B had both the polymer finish and the front slide serrations. Foolishly sold it. Need another one...


Take care. Marko

[LBC]

George,

I haven't read the entire thread, but you prefer this to your Springfield TRP? The reason I'm asking is I'm considering the TRP and am familiar with the high regard you held yours in.

Best,

ACP