Its like apples and oranges....

[crowsnest2002]

I'm just a good ol country boy. But I think that its like apples and oranges. The .223 is well capable for what the standard infantry man requires. I suppose if you having a problem with something that would require more than a .223, then call up your buddy with the M60 to do the job. Also in Vietnam usually the man with the M60 had someone else to help him carry all the ammo and supplies as well so if everyone was equiped with and M60 to use, we all would need another man as a packhorse to carry all our ammo and supplies. So when it comes down to it. The .223 is great in some situations, but if the situation gets a might hairy then call in the guy with the M60 to help out, thats what he's there for.

Crow

[Schmit]

Crow,

The Marine Corps, prior to my retiring, was working on a initutive for a "Dedicated Marksman" and evaluating a rifle for such a program.

What this entailed was putting a DM into (IIRC) each squad with a scoped .308 semi-auto. Not a "Sniper" mind you, but a Dedicated Marksman. Kind of like a "go between" a Rifleman and a Sniper.

In my humble opinion it was a great initutive, not sure where the programs stands now though.

[Jamie Young]

I'm sure the guys over in Afghanistan would like that. I've been reading of reports where guys were running low on ammo because they couldn't make 700meter shots with there M16 and M4 rifles.

[Ewok_Guy]

I've been reading of reports where guys were running low on ammo because they couldn't make 700meter shots with there M16 and M4 rifles.
*snicker*
Best to have something capable of both short and long shots.

[4V50 Gary]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The Dedicated Marksman is a valid concept and has been proven in the past. During the Spanish American War, pick marksmen were sent to clear the jungle of Spanish sharpshooters who knocked men and mule trains. In the American (un)Civil War, besides dedicated sharpshooter units, most regiments had excellant shots who could be called upon for specific tasks (indeed, sharpshooting could also be an assignment given when the day's orders are read). During the Revolution, both sides used riflemen and while we all know about Daniel Morgan and the German jaegers, the British also equipped a few men with rifles (besides Ferguson's experimental corp, rifles were given to some men of the Queen's Rangers).

[Senior_rifleman]

Schmidt,

Your remark about the Marine Corp. initiating a Dedicated Marksman assignment at the squad level causes me to make further inquiry. What is the current composition of a squad and would the Dedicated Rifleman be an additional member of the squad?

I have seen news reports of the Department of Defenses' ambitious program intended to field the light infantry forces for the 21st Century. In their scenario, (as far as I can determine), the means for controlling the battlefield is: knowing who is on the battlefield, identifying the number of and location of the enemy and then rendering them harmless. All of this to be accomplished with economy of manpower and munitions. In my understanding, the lethality of the squad would be increased perhaps at the expense of firepower, (number of rounds expended per man).

Do you see this 21st Century force as doable?

[KSFreeman]

The biggest, best gun is always the radio!!!

/s/ Kostya, starnee soldat

[Andrew Wyatt]

it's pretty hard to find a good semi auto .308 that's light, rugged and accurate.

the m-1a/m-14 has some problems staying tuned, doesn't it?

[MarineTech]

Senior_rifleman,

As of 1994 when I left the Marines, the basic Marine Corps rifle squad consisted of the following.

13 Marines broken into (3) 4 man fireteams and (1) squad leader.

1 fireteam loadout was as follows
(1) SAW Gunner with M249 SAW
(1) SAW A-Gunner carrying M16A2 along with SAW ammo and barrel bag.
(2) Riflemen with M16A2s (1 of them the fireteam leader)

Generally, there was 1 of the standard rifleman in each squad that carried the M203 grenade launcher (in our platoon it was the assistant squad leader who was also the 1st fireteam leader.)

If my understanding of the DM position is correct. They will replace one of the riflemen carrying an M16A2 with the DM carrying the scoped M14 rifle.

This still leaves the 13 man squad intact.

[James K]

It also leaves the DM the only guy in the squad using 7.62 ammo. If he runs out, does he run next door and borrow ammo, sort of like that cup of sugar. And from whom? Aren't the nearest M60's at company level? Like around the hill and down the road?

Jim

[MuzzleBlast]

The biggest, best gun is always the radio!!! "Fire for effect, over!"

[Senior_rifleman]

Muzzleblast,

I am a BIG fan of the cannon cockers. But what do you do when you need the heavy firepower and:

The Foreward Observer just got hit and/or

The radio needs batteries and we are fresh out and/or

I don't know exactly where I am at and the FO can't find his map and/or

The Arty guy on the other end of the radio has been reponding, "Wait One" for the past 15 minutes and/or

Regiment hears you but gives your request a low priority on the list of Fire Missions and/or

You finally get through on the radio and nearly crap your pants when you hear, "Fire For Effect", without you ever seeing where the spotting round landed!