Anyone held an AR180B yet?

[ballistic gelatin]

Just curious about the ship date on the Armalite AR180B. Someone on AR15.com said they were able to purchase one a few weeks ago when TFL was down.

[chris93473]

IMHO i don't know when they are gonna ship. :confused:

[Swamp Yankee]

The demand far exceeded what Armalite anticipated, or so they told me.
Last word I heard from Armalite was they are shipping the AR180B but in limited numbers. Backlog is such that the Armalite Customer Service quoted me a 4 to 6 month delivery.
Take Care

[artech]

In other words, Armalite is having production problems and is trying to Beta-test their new design changes. From the sound of it I'd steer clear of these first-run guns. As always, YMMV and IMNSHO.;)

[Badger Arms]

Artech, what gun company does NOT do this? How many prototypes do you want them to produce? I challenge you to name a single gun that has reamined the same as its prototype. Leave John Browning out of this, please.

Let it be known that the AR-180 is not a "Beta" or even a prototype. In fact, the AR-180 was produced by no fewer than three separate companies in large production runs. Modified copies of the gun were manufactured as the SAR 80 and later as the L85 for the British and HK G36 for the Germans and now Spanish. The SAR 80 is a virtual copy of the AR-18 with some improvements all of which seem to have been included in the AR-180B In fact, the trigger mechanism of the AR-15 is simply placed into a new, unique lower reveiver. The upper seems to be a direct copy of the SAR 80 with different grips and sights.

So, with millions of AR-15's running around out there and over half a million or more AR-18 bolt and gas systems, what basis do you have for calling this a Beta?

Their initial production problems were with a subcontractor who supplied substandard recievers. Other than that (with which they were forthcoming) what other "Beta" issues do you see in the gun?

[artech]

Well hey, obviously the things aren't flying out the door. Ergo, there is a problem. Now, having built something like thirty thousand Bushmasters with my own two hands and another hundred and twenty thousand or so as the shop manager, I do feel like I know a thing or two about the trials and tribulations of gun manufacturing. How many have you built?

Now I fully know how bringing out a new rifle goes even if it's been built before. Doesn't matter. ANY new build has problems, either errors in the production prints or tolerance stacking or unforseen subcontractor issues. Just ask anyone who bought an 88 Chevy pickup. Any new model year has more problems than later years. Guns are no different. Even the same model gun built in different places can have problems; some parts of Enfield P-14's wont even interchange between the Winchesters, Remingtons, and Eddystones. That's just the way it is.

I don't buy brand new model cars or trucks, brand new gun designs, or anything else that hasn't been proven by guys with more money and more time for warranty service than I have.
When one particular company has built a couple hundred thousand of one particular design, I'll probably have to try one, as I do like the 180 concept.

Armalite is a reputable company and I'm sure they'll stand behind their stuff as they always do. As I said previously, YMMV(your mileage may vary- hey you might get a good one - who knows?) and IMNSHO(in my not-so-humble opinion - Dude, I been there, I done that. My '88 Chevy pickup SUCKED! My '91 was great.) I lived, I learned. I'm just saying I wouldn't buy one of the first ones off the line. It's that First Amendment thing, you know? Relax already! No blood, no foul!

[ballistic gelatin]

Hey Artech, why has Bushmaster not produced a 16" with mid-length handguards? I see that Armalite has made one for a while and now Rock River is producing one.

[Badger Arms]

I'm the proud owner of two Bushmaster lowers with DPMS and Rock River Arms uppers respectively. Why ain't you guys building them thar Mid-length handguards, eh? I was wondering the same thing. I'd like to see mid-length double-heat-shielded handguards myself.

For the record, I've only built three weapons from scratch in my life. One was an AK-47 kit, the other two were AR-15 kits from DPMS.

[artech]

Wish I could help, fellas, but I left there three years ago and don't know much about what they're up to lately. It's a different company now than it used to be. It got big and the bean-counters took over.

It looks to me like they are still gradually releasing stuff that we came up with like five or six years ago. I haven't seen anything earth-shattering from them lately. Of course, a lot of their real technical talent has left over the last few years.

But that's another story. I'd guess that the main reason not to build a different handguard is cost; both for the moulds and for having to stock yet another barrel configuration. Hell, we made 85 different barrels when I left! Some are no longer in production, but there are some new ones to take their place.

Anyway, that's my guess as to why. If the demand goes up(and enough people bug them about it) they'll probably build them. Hope this helps.