Wanting Info on Buying an M-14 Clone

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I am interested in buying an M-14 clone and would like to read the opinions of those who care to resond with their experiences. About seven or eight years ago, a friend of mine bought a Norinco that looked like an M-14 from about fifty yards. At closer examination, however, the stock was some mystery wood that looked like it still needed to have 25% more wood taken off the outside. It was awful looking. Then when he shot it, he found the flash hider was misalligned and being struck by the bullets as they passed out of the barrel. I saw the SA M1-A and thought it looked like a million bucks. It also seems to cost almost as much. I have also heard some negative stuff about the M1-A not shooting well and not staying bedded properly. Another fellow told me he had a Polytech that outperformed the M1-As he had seen.

I am willing to pay the bucks for an SA M1-A if that is the way for me to go, but I would like to be sure that is the way to go. I have done some searching on the subject, but I find my search efforts tend to get off on tangent subjects, and I get lost. Therefore, if you have some personal information on the subject that you would not mind sharing, please let me know.

I am not new to semi-auto military rifles; I have three M-1 Garands, two AR-15s, three SKS rifles, and a couple of AKs. I also have about seven or eight GI magazines for the M-14, and I really think I should have a rifle to go with them. Any help in this matter will be appreciated.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Powderman]

Save your money. Buy the M1A.

But, don't just run out and buy the first new one you see. Go to some gun shows, and also check out your local gun shops. I found a beautiful pre-ban M1A National Match, with the old high gloss finish, still tight, with a 1st generation scope mount, on consignment for 800.00!

It's sitting in my gun safe now.

[Kernel]

The price difference between the chinese rifles and Springfields is narrowing. From what I've seen the day of the cheap Polytech/Norinco clones are gone. I bought mine for $425 NIB, sold it a few years later for $500 and thought I did good. Last gunshow I went to I saw three used Polytechs that were in the $850 the range (two had GI flash hiders with bayonet lugs - technically illegal). A used M1A like Powderman's is a much better deal. -- Kernel

[Mike Kilo Niner]

I'd steer clear of the Chinese clones myself, Clint at Fulton Armory has a detailed explanation of why he thinks their receivers are suspect: http://www.fultonarmory.com. It's under M-14/M1A information. That's another option, come to think of it -- buy one of his. From what I've heard, everything the man builds is art.

For me, a Springfield did the job just fine. I thought I bought a standard grade (even said "M1A Std." on the receipt) for a decent, though not spectacular price. I've since come to find out: it was a loaded model! So, my "okay" price for a standard turned out to be an outstanding price for a loaded. That one I'm keeping for sure!

[pariah]

I had a polytexh and am kickin' myself in the ass for ever selling it. mine was very accurate and very reliable. The L1A1 I have now is fun, but not as accurate.

[Ledbetter]

I thought I made a good deal, but you guys are bandits.

A guy bought a SA M1A Loaded, cleaned and lubed it, bought an ARMS scope mount, buncha tools and the Scott Duff book. Never even fired it, still had the coupons for the $150 in free stuff from Springfield. Then he had a car wreck and sold it all to me for $1300. Right here in California. I saved $104 just in sales tax. And I got the free stuff from SA.:D

Anyway, wait around and a deal like that will come along. Check out the forums at

www.jouster.com
www.battlerifles.com

for more info.

Good luck and regards,

Ledbetter

[4V50 Gary]

If Smith Enterprises ever makes M-14s again, that's the one to get.

[Steve Smith]

Besides the bolt, there's nothing wrong with the Chicom M14s. You can still find them here and there for $500-$600. Other than the bolt, I don't see much of a difference between the standard M1A and the Chicom M14. Make sure you get one with a new-ish barrel, and you'll be fine. Powderman got an absolute steal...don't expect to get that. Expect a standard M1A to cost almost twice that of a Chicom M14.

If your concerns about accuracy and bedding are because of what I have said in the past, please understand that that it was from a Highpower shooter's perspective. If you want a good rifle that will always run, and will have acceptable accuracy, there's nothing wrong with an M14/M1A.

[Kaylee]

1 -- Polytech/Chinese.. GOOD budget option I think. Some parts are on a par or better than Springfield, some most certainly aren't. You're right though -- the stock feels like a boat oar carved by a blind monkey. It's a $20 fix with a GI stock from Fred's and some elbow grease fillin' in the selector though, so easy to remedy.

Good breakdown of how they compare, piece by piece with the others, here:
http://www.smithenterprise.com/gen_info.htm#M14 RIFLE PARTS COMPARISON

2 -- Springfield. My PERSONAL opinion (that I might hollered at for) is that they're good rifles certainly, but not up the hype over 'em, especially the more recent ones. The older ones have mostly GI parts on a commercial cast reciever -- the newer ones are mostly repro parts, and from what I'm told, a fair amount of castings in there as well.

No, I'm not saying they're not good, funtional rifles. Just that they aren't by any means the best out there. That, and every time I read "The Oldest Name in American Firearms" over the Springfield Inc. logo, I wanna barf. :p Guess I've just worked with marketing types too long.

3 -- If you want the BEST, short of breaking into a gov't armory..

My personal approach these days would be to buy one of the new dropforged MK-Specialty recievers and building up from there with GI parts. The downside with going that way is that you're still a post-ban, and would technically have to mill off the bayo lug. But then, you're no worse off that way than with a new Springfield.

If that idea doesn't appeal, try looking for an old pre-ban Smith Enterprises build up (on a Smith Enterprises receiver). It'll be older (80's era), but a darn good gun.

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Thanks for the information.

For Kaylee: could you tell me something about the MK-Speciality receiver - where to get it?, is it a good receiver?, what price? I would not mind buying a parts kit if I knew the parts were good quality. I guess surplus GI parts would be the way to go. I know a good smith who re-barrels M1 Garands, and I would think he could put the barrel and receiver together for me.

Thanks,
Dave Wile
Springfield.

[Kaylee]

Hi!

MK-Specialt(ies) -- my oops on the name, sorry:
http://www.m-kspecialties.com/
They also have entire rifles for sale, I see.

Apparently the wait's pretty high, but someone's selling a receiver on Guns America right now for $600:
GunsAmerica #976222819
Name: LRB OF LONG ISLAND, INC.
Area Code: 516

The word is still out on the receivers, I'm afraid, but MK's reputation so far has been pretty good. As you can see, the M14 receiver they're selling even has the (disabled) auto lug, all drop forged and in-spec. Presuming you didn't get a complete rifle straight from MK, you could pick up a USGI parts kit (less receiver) from:
http://www.usarmory.com/catalog.asp?PAGE=5

Had I not shelled out the $$ for a Smith not a month before I found out about these guys, it's what I'd do.

-K

[Steve Smith]

STOP!!!

There are already several MK owners, or rather ex-owners that are regretting their purchase. The ATF has crawfished on their VERBAL approval of the re-weld. At this time, MK has stopped remanufacturing M14s, and the ATF may wind up confiscating those that are out there.

To me, the snob appea of having a "real" M14 is not worth the $600+ price for the receiver alone, plus the possibility of confiscation.

Agree with Kaylee, the SA guns are not worth the hype and the price. As I said, the best option for the M14 owner now is to find a really good Polytech and go from there.

[Badger Arms]

I hate to be the one who says, "DON'T BUY THE GLOCK! THEY SUCK! BUY RUGER!" when you ask which Glock to buy, but here goes.

I've owned a Chinese gun, three Springfield Armory, and a Federal Ordnance? POS. I got into the Fed Ord for change in a trade. The guy asked what it was worth and I told him that I can take it off his hands for basically the 'wholesale' price for the parts on the rifle that were good. I ended up selling the Fed Ord to a pawn shop. While I had it, I marveled that it had ever fired a shot... and it might not have.

The Chinese gun made a good showing for itself at a High Power match. It shot better than I did. Apart from all of the parts looking a bit different and the substandard fit and finish, the gun seemed to perform just fine. I sold it still.

The Springfield Armory guns I've owned were all outstanding weapons ALMOST worthy of the price. I sold them all and bought an AR-10 and am now happy. What a gun.

My suggestion is that before you jump into an M-1A and spend all of that money that you'll have to spend, you should check out the competition. There are literally dozens of rifles out there in the same class. Here are a few.

The AR-10 available from Armalite (http://www.armalite.com/)
The SR-25 available from Knights Armament (http://www.knightsarmament.com)
The FAL is best gotten from DS Arms (http://www.dsarms.com/)
There are also a few AK-47 based guns that can be converted to M-14 magazines at Krebs Firearms (http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.html)

Of these options, I'd probably go with the DS Arms gun. They seem to be the most fun and easiest path. You wouldn't be disappointed with the M-1A, I'm just saying there are other options.

[Gewehr98]

I've seen Springfield, Inc. receivers that should never have left the factory. Total POS.

There may be some Fed Ord guns, especially if they're not rewelds, that work just fine for their owners.

MKS has caught a lot of flak over their rewelds. Even though I respect the effort they've taken into guaranteeing the metallurgy of a destroyed receiver that's been put back together, I wouldn't trust one. Sounds like they've noticed that lack of trust from potential customers, as well as the possible ATF rules reversal, because they're gearing up to make new forged receivers.

I've seen, handled, and shot High-Power prepped Polytech M14's that walked away with winning scores on a routine basis, and they weren't particularly pampered.

Get Kuhnhausen's book on the M14/M1A. Check the forums. Talk to those who build them, shoot them, and fix them.

EVERYBODY's got at least some bias when it comes to their favorite M14/M1A. Don't forget that, and take that opinion with just a little pinch of salt at a bare minimum. Some may need more salt, some less.

(Myself, I run an Armscorp M14NM with H&R running gear and a Krieger barrel. I went this route after I ran into those bad Springfield M1A receivers.)

;)

[Freedom in theSkies]

I would like to vouch for the Norinco M1A variant.
I just had my neice out to the range today and she shot a sub moa 5 round group with mine. - I think that we should note that she never fired a high power rifle before...
I'm freakin' freakin'...
She was using some of my match Nosler J-4 ammo, but the winds were about 10mph from our 9:00.

I'm thinkin' that you don't want to go up against her a a match...
Especially if she has a Norinco in her hands...


I suppose that every manufacturer has put out both good and bad rifles. Just the luck of the draw after that...

[Kaylee]

Steve, Gewehr -- the new MKS are NOT rewelds. They're manufactured from scratch, with no possibility of being converted to auto -- they're ATF clean. And not re-welded. I agree with y'all, I'd not plunk down the money for a reweld. The NEW ones though is another story.

-K

[Kingcreek]

I suppose that every manufacturer has put out both good and bad rifles.
Kinda echoes what an Army match armoror said some years ago while he did the safety cert on my SA M1a at Camp Perry. He asked if it was a good one as he looked it over. I told him it was a fine rifle (M1a supermatch). He said "Springfield Armory builds the best rifles on the line. They also build the worst." That was years ago. I don't know what thier current crop is like but I am happy with the 2 I have.

[Steve Smith]

Kaylee, if the new MKS receivers are forged and new, then I'll bet that they're the best available. However, I still question the need to use such a receiver to build a rifle...that's just me.