Most Ergonomic Semi-Auto Rifle

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Ok, let's put aside technical issues (like "will it actually fire?") and let's put aside caliber issues. Going strictly on ergonomics, what is the best semi-auto rifle?

In considering ergonomics you should consider the following:

Is the rifle comfortable when shouldered?
Is the rifle comfortable/easy to carry?
Can the controls be reached and operated easily while still in firing position?
Can magazines be changed quickly and easily?
Is the rifle lefty friendly?
Position of sights, optics, cheek weld

I realize that ergonomics are a very subjective thing; so please explain the ergonomic features you particularly like on the rifle of your choice.

[Salt]

M1 Carbine


No other auto rifle or carbine is close to being as ergonomic as the old M1 Carbine.

[Poodleshooter]

AR-15.
It has:
-Great safety, magazine and bolt release controls
-Good sights
-a fast reload
-it's lefty friendly
-easy cheek weld (nose to the charging handle)
-Good optics mounts (A3 only, the A2 sucks)

Personally I dislike safeties or any other item that is too close to the trigger (I'm thinking of the Garand and Remington 870 style safeties). I like them within reach, but out of the way of the guard. This helps ergonomics in cold weather.

[Correia]

Personally I think the FAL is a very comforable weapon to use. However I will say that for me personally that is probably because I am a very big guy. Most of my shooting buddies find it too long, too heavy, and kind of awkward.

[Ledbetter]

Ever picked up a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP? Uses 1911 magazines. Nice little rifle, mine wears a Trijicon Reflex II.

Regards.

[ronin308]

IMHO, the AR is the most ergonomic rifle. I really like the feel of the Steyr AUG but I haven't actually gotten to fire one yet.

[4V50 Gary]

HK-36. With rifle resting on shoulder and sights on target, it's easy to cock with either hand (top cocker with pivoting cocking handle). Easy to load with either and safety is a snap.

[9mmepiphany]

my personal choice would be the L1A1 (british version of the fal...folding cocking handle & fore end shape) it just fits and balances "right". if you had left out the "left hand friendly" requirement, i would have said the AUG or the enfield 85A1 (you did say it didn't matter if it worked)

it has been so long since i handled a M1 carbine that i can't quite remember how it fit...but when i was 10, it was "way cool"

[ACP230]

My vote goes to either the M1 Garand or the M1A. I find the AR clone I have inferior in ergonomics to either. It shoots well, but it doesn't carry like the other too. It doesn't have the "feel" of the M1 or M1A.

[Fatelvis]

I agree with ACP, I think a M1A with an original, GI synthetic stock, feels real good in the hands. Slim, solid feeling, and downright comfy!

[Kaylee]

gaah.. so much depends on the shooter's body frame and preferences, it hard to say. Rather than address favorite rifles, I think I'll point out features --

I find traditional stocks easier to carry, quicker to shoulder, and easier to handle the trigger with precision. But a pistol grip stock feels handier for very-close-in type targets.

I prefer rock-in mags to straight-drop -- you have a little extra leverage and a nice solid "click" that lets you know you're ready to go. No "okay I've got it --- maybe not quite" slips you can get on a full mag in the AR series. There's a reason some folks advise "pull on the mag to make sure it's seated." Of course, the rock-in can be a slower reload, so...

Finally, I LOVE the AR bolt release, and the HK series safety/selector lever.


I suppose the ultimate for me would be a M14 profile, polymer stocked, all knocked down a bit in size and weight for handling (maybe with that "compromise" cartridge previously discussed), rock-in mags, a port-side AR-style bolt release, and..hrmm.. maybe a Rem 700-style safety lever, on the port side of the action. Or a really, really slicked up M1/M14 type safety.. most of the ones I've handled are kinda gritty.

-K

[KSFreeman]

The SL-7.

If you are considering .223 as a rifle (not a carbine), then I vote the M-16/AR-15. It's really what you are used to. As such, I never liked the Steyr. Never liked tac or speed reloading under my arm. I liked the mag out between me and the threat as I do not have x-ray vision like most do apparently.

However, if you were brought up on it like in the Aussie or Eastern Empire militree, you may be used to it since that what you were instructed on since 18. YMMV.

[Tamara]

...but the AR is it; hands down.

Mag release? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock.

Safety? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock.

Bolt release? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock.

Just like the Enfield's big advantage as a bolt action battle rifle is that it can be entirely operated without removing it from your shoulder, the AR (except for initially racking the bolt, which thereafter locks back on empties) can be entirely manipulated without pulling your eyes away from the (excellent) sights.

[9mmepiphany]

i really like the way tamara has broken the advantages of the ar system...but i like to think that the fal system, especially in it's L1A1, has all the same features

1. mag and bolt release both activated by the off thumb while clearing expended mag and inserting fresh mag
2. safety as accessable, if not more, as the ar to the strong thumb

3. with the addition of the ability to cock the action, with the off hand, without shifting grip or pulling your face off the stock

[Tamara]

...gripe I have with the FAL is, in my experience, "rock in" mag changes are slower than "straight in" mag changes. More positive? Perhaps, but definitely slower and easier to bobble, for me at least.

Other than that, I'm a big fan of the FAL.

[9mmepiphany]

you're right, i'm not a big fan of the rock-in mags either but...

i like the lower sight line, with the folding carry handle above the boreline and the ar grip has never had enough reach for me. (i'm even getting a fal style grip for my ak)

[yorec]

For me its the AR. Period, nothing else come close to overall ergonomic bliss.

#2 honorable mention goes to the L1A1, but does anyone really try to cock it at speed all the while holding it to target?

[orsogato]

AR-15 hands down

[Christopher II]

Like everyone else, AR first, FAL second.

The AR ain't perfect, though. I do prefer a rock-in magazine latch to a push-in one, although the magazine release on the AR is far superior. I'd also prefer a normal weak-hand charging handle to the AR's drawbar.

The FAL is great, but not quite as refined as the AR, and about a pound too heavy.

The M1 Carbine is very, very good, but it's been a while since I've shot one.

The Garand and M14 have the charging handle on the wrong side. Arrrgh!

If you're a lefty, a Daewoo is a good bet (thought I'd say that before Ian gets here...) It's pretty much an AR with the charging handle on the right-hand side. Not so good for us normal-handed folks, but great for southpaws.

The AK is an ergonomic nightmare. It's almost like they were deliberatly trying to make this rifle as hard to use as possible.

- Chris

[Badger Arms]

AR-15 / M-16 would have to be the winner in this field with a few exceptions. I want a grip about an inch bigger around and one that puts your finger in the right place. With my grip insert, I can still reach the mag release easily. I don't know why they designed the grip for children.

Second, The AR-10 (early Armalite with the charging handle in the carrying handle) was hands down the ULTIMATE charging handle. Why they moved it to the rear is beyond me. You have to physically remove the rifle from your shoulder!

I think that the HK G-36 has it beat with a top-mounted handle that is low profile, folds, and also acts as a forward assist. The AR-15 could benefit by the elimination of the forward assist bulge, true ambidexterous operation, and you could operate the charging handle with the rifle shouldered. Heck, you could even have the handle reciprocate with the carrier.

So, Bigger grip, G-36 charging handle/forward assist.

[C.R.Sam]

For shooting from prone or over bags, log etc......Garand.

Other positions, FAL

Sam

[Jamie Young]

The AR................... But I would pick the FAL if I could find a longer stock. I'd like to get My hands on a G36 though.

[woodland]

Here's another one for the AR. Can,t beat it.:D I like HKs, but they seem "super sized". Everything is just beyond your reach, it seems. At least for me.

[Fred S]

For me its the AR-15.

[youngun]

"The AR-10 (early Armalite with the charging handle in the carrying handle) was hands down the ULTIMATE charging handle. Why they moved it to the rear is beyond me."

Good question.
Did they make the change before making a flattop?
If not, then there's your answer.
That aside, I agree, great place for an ambi charging handle.

[Archer1440]

None of you seem to have shot a Tubb 2000...

[Ceol Mhor]

The Daewoo is basically an AR lower to start with, with the bolt handle on the right. The only difference is a 180-degree rotation to operate the safety instead of the AR's 90-degree. For lefties who like AR's, the Daewoo is a fantastic gun.

[Spectre]

AR-15
M1 Carbine
FAL

I don't have to like it (AR15/M16) to know it's ergonomic...

[Patriot328]

Well.. not really, but no one else has mentioned it... :D




C'mon.. you only need 3 hands to switch the mag quickly... :)

[Nightcrawler]

"Mag release? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock.

Safety? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock.

Bolt release? At your fingertip without having to shift your grip or pull your face off the stock. "

So long as your'e right handed.

For a lefty, you have to pull the mag out with your right hand while hitting the mag release with your right thumb. Then you insert the fresh magazine, and replace your right hand on the forearm. Then you take your left hand off of the pistol grip, and hit the bolt release with it.

To operate the safety, you have to move your left thumb around, which isn't a real big deal, except the selector switch rubs agains my finger when in the SEMI/FIRE position.

I'm not saying that the AR has poor ergonomics, but they are definately geared towards the right handed shooter. As for the charging handle...maybe it's just me, but I never liked putting my nose on it. I shot 39/40 last time, so I think my cheek weld is adequate. The charging handle is ambidextrious, but it's in a poor location nonetheless, in my opinion.

[Schmit]

I would have to say the Steyr AUG....

Is the rifle comfortable when shouldered? - Very!

Is the rifle comfortable/easy to carry? - Yes, the center of gravity is the firing grip.

Can the controls be reached and operated easily while still in firing position? - Yep, charging handle weak hand, magizine weak hand, safety thumb all while keeping the weapon if your shoulder.

Can magazines be changed quickly and easily? Yep - week hand.

Is the rifle lefty friendly? - Hell Yes... just change bolt.

Position of sights, optics, cheek weld - Yep.

All the above in a compact bull-pup design that has a standard lenght barrel. Also, lets not forget the quick release feature of the barrel that lets you change barrel length in < a minute nor the adjustable gas system that allows you to increase the amount of gas used to cycle the gun as the gun gets dirty/low power ammo is used.

[Ewok_Guy]

For me its my Mak-90. With its skeletonized stock it feels somewhat like a 'beastly' AR-15. Can change magazines like lightening, shoulders wonderfully, cheek piece puts your eye in the exact same place everytime. Can operate everything while in the firing position. A very handy and compact rifle. Also left hand friendly.

[Coronach]

I hate to say it, too, but of the Semis I've fired, the AR wins in ergonomics. Balanced, controls at your fingertips, pleasant to shoot (thats because its a .22, oops, no caliber wars, sorry ;) ), has a delightful *sproioioioioioing* sound and excellent sights. I dislike the charging handle location, too, but you only gotta use it once.

Now, in a SHTF scenario, I'm still grabbing my FAL.

Mike

[Gewehr98]

With a little bit of Lubriplate in the recoil buffer's tube and spring.;)

The semi-auto that feels most balanced and comfortable in my hands is :surprise: the 8mm FN-49. (Papa to the FN FAL)

The Garand comes a close second to me.

I own and shoot my AR's for fun and competition, and even get FN M16A2's issued to me by Uncle Sam when I do SP augmentee, but they don't necessarily have to be my favorite.:D

[Sixgun_Symphony]

When it comes to ergonomics, the M1 carbine is best.

[P-99er]

I have a Winchester .308 that is the most comfortable in my rack. Made in 1962, very accurate, and a dream to shoot. It just falls into place when brought up to the shooting position. Sweet as sugar.

[Rome]

For pure fit, fast target aquisition, easy mag swap, big caliber, and great accuracy, you simply can't beat a MAS 49/56 in NATO .308. It's not big but not small. It' has a mag lock that you can't screw up. It's got terrific sights, and it's got that great rubber boot on the butt that fits most normal humans perfectly. Add to that the stopping power, range, and accuracy of the the round and you've got a winner all around.

I love my CETME as many love their AR15s but the CETME is a lot heavier but the pistol grip is comfortable. The MAS just talks to me, however.

Rome

[fix]

AR, hands down. That's the main reason I picked the AR10 over the M1A. Out of the box accuracy sidelined the FAL, but it's ergonomics are pretty good.

Second, The AR-10 (early Armalite with the charging handle in the carrying handle) was hands down the ULTIMATE charging handle. Why they moved it to the rear is beyond me.

Optics. Now that being said, it had little to do with the flat top design (it just so happened to work out for the best) and everything to do with the carry handle mounts. There was also a slight problem with heat transfer on the early models, scorching the operator's finger when racking the charging handle after sustained rapid firing. One would think that the sore shoulder would have been worse than the burnt finger.:) I like the AR charging handle fine. I'm ambidextrous, so the charging handle is one less thing to worry about. Add an ambi safety and mag release (both readily available), and I'm set.

[Snowdog]

I'll throw my vote in for the FAL/L1A1 variety. My Springfield SAR48 (FAL clone) is a pure joy to put up and aim at something... but I'm certain it's not such a joy to carry for extended periods of time.

For handling or firing off a few rounds at the range, I've never shouldered a more ergonomic rifle than the FAL (except the Remington 597 :D ).

[-Yo-]

I concur re the Steyr Aug. Now I don't like the trigger, and I'm not convinced about bullpup mechanics, but the mount to shoulder feels great. The optic is in the right place and makes sighting a breeze, I like the fold-down forward handle. Much easier to snap-shoot than an AR, which isn't bad, except the stock is too short for me.

Tubb 2000 -- customizable stock w cheekpiece, but it doesn't count since it's a bolt action.