Mossberg Persuader and Wal Mart

[Brenda]

I have found out that Wal-Mart will not be ordering anymore Mossberg Persuaders after the existing in store stock is gone.
I guess that some of the muckety-mucks think that this shotgun is not PC.
I avoid wally world when I'm looking for a new gun or ammo.
BTW,I'm a newbie. I know I'm going to like this place :)

[Ned Roundtree]

Heard folks talk about this subject before. I guess since the gun looks sinister, it is to be banned. Sorta the AR-15 Black Rifle Syndrome. Black Rifle so it must be sinister. Home defense shotgun, so it must be sinister. Well the glass is half full. They still cater to sportsman and hunters. At least that's something.

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Courage is only fear that has said its prayers.

[Sea Bass]

Welcome Brenda. If your shopping for a shotgun, go to a real dealer who could provide better selection and support. Wal-Mart is a joke. Remember getting a good deal is one thing but service after the sale is just as important.

[Kingcreek]

WalMart apparently caters mainly to the WalMartians, who apparently don't need many 'persuaders' in thier world.
Find a good dealer that knows something about what he's selling. Most will ASK YOU several questions before showing you anything and you're more likely to get what best suits your needs.
Most of the kids that work the counters in the discount superstores don't know squat about what they are selling.
Avoid those WalMartians.

[Ned Roundtree]

The advice of the others members is correct. I had no idea what to look for in a HD shotgun. Shopped at several places: sporting goods store, guns shops etc. But one gun shop I walked into had a whole rack of Hd/tactical shotguns. Had no idea what I was looking at but certainly seemed impressive. Most knowledgeable person filled me in. I wasn't able to take the tactical shotgun class that came to my club this past fall. Cost $300 for two day class. But I hope it comes again. This time I will take the course.

[boing]

I emailed Wal-Mart about this, and I got this response:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wal-Mart sells hunting and sporting firearms. The decision to
stop
selling the persuader and defender home defense guns was done at the
buyer
level and effects all stores. All buying decisions are done in
Bentonville,
and the stores follow these programs. They can however adjust to
regional
needs when appropriate. Please be assured Wal-Mart will continue to sell
guns and ammunition. Its our heritage as a company from the beginning
with
Sam Walton and will continue. Many of our corporate executives are
hunters
and fisherman. Thank You for your letter and for shopping our stores.

Michael Shaw
Sporting Goods[/quote]

Take it for what it's worth. On the face of it, I'd say that Kingcreek is probably correct: Most people who buy guns at WalMart go there for "sporting" guns, and buy their "business" guns elsewhere.

[TheOtherMikey]

I don't think that WalMart has a very good selection of guns...certainly not what can be obtained through an independent dealer. Having said this, I find that WalMart is an excellent supplier of low cost equipment and ammunition. For example, I found Winchester AA 12ga trap loads there on special for $4.79 a box....much less than anywhere else locally. Regards, Mikey

[Jeff Thomas]

Self defense is just not 'PC' enough for Wally World. They'd like you to come back and buy again, but if you don't survive a BG, they really don't care. It's that hunting and fishing that's really important ...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Are they not carrying the pistol versions or the fully stocked ones also? The Defender comes in both versions. I find their answer non-responsive.

I would want to know if it was because the product wasn't selling. That's legitimate.
But if it was for PC reasons, screw 'em.

They sell a lot of Mossberg camo 500s. I know that the camo is for turkeys but it looks evil to me. They better get rid of them. You know that the 500 camos shoot the same rounds as those evil guns.

Maybe we should go hassle them about the
the 500s and 870s. They kill cute ducks.

[longhair]

Me thinketh people bitch too much. While I'm no great fan of Wally World, and I don't go in there unless it's a have to case, I don't see why people are coming down on them so hard about the guns they decide to sell. Thry are not a specialty store, they don't specialize in guns, they sell all kinds of stuff. They must buy and sell to the masses. If you want something special, then you go to a store/shop that specializes in what you're looking for. At least they still sell guns and ammo. If they don't have what you want, then you're quite free to go somewhere else. No I'm not a Wal Mart employee, stock holder, or anything else
Let the flames begin!!

[This message has been edited by longhair (edited January 04, 2000).]

[dZ]

wyhen i was in wallymart before xmas they had a mossberg 590 on the rack!

a very un PC arm

dZ

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Longhair, the argument is not that they should't follow market forces. However, if they decided not to sell a gun that was
desired by their customers because the gun was not PC - then they are being enemies of the RKBA.

They buy into the idea that firearms are only for hunting or recreation. That way leads to
the UK model. No handguns at all, ownership and storage completely controlled by the government.

If you buy the sport model - then why not have all guns kept at your registered club?

That's the problem with stores stop selling
non-PC guns due to pressure or PR

[socialdysphoric]

Walmart will special order many long guns for you.(They stopped selling handguns years ago because of the hassles) What Walmart carries on a day to day basis depends on what thay can get cheaply and in bulk from gun manufacturers. (Remember, Walmart's buyers purchase regular inventory items for over 2500 stores) Their primary sales market is low end hunting guns and cheap 22s, not necessarily because of political correctness, but because these items sell nationwide and have a larger profit margin, especially in the quantities that Walmart buys in. Occasionally, when they get a deal, they will stock guns like the Mossberg Persuader or the Winchester Defender.

That being said, support your local gun dealer. The extra few dollars will help pay for an atmosphere that Walmart will never be able to match.

[Ruger guy]

Walmart may not sell the 500 but k-mart does. However, Walmart does sell the mini 14. Go figure. They also sell lot's of other shotguns. I really don't think the intruder cares which model you have. I picked up my 590 at a chain sporting goods store.

[Ned Roundtree]

Don't hate me cause I shop Wal Mart. I love the TICO TOOL for cleaning shotguns. My gun store carries it for $14.99. Wal Mart carries it for $9.69. Now where are ya going to buy it? :)

[Will Beararms]

BE ADVISED. DO NOT SUPPORT WALMART. THEY HAVE ALSO DISCONTINUED SPECIAL ORDER PISTOL SALES. IF THEY ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE, THEY SHOULD FOREGO ALL FIREARMS SALES. I HAVE WRITTEN THE PRESIDENT, DAVID GLASS AND STATED THESE VIEWS. HELP A SMALL,FOCUSED DEALER STAY IN BUSINESS AND FORGET THE SOCIALISTS AT WALMART!

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[Bob_L]

Will, that sounds like cutting off your nose despite your face.

Should we maybe say then: Since the government is prohibiting the sale of some guns, then what the hell, they may as well prohibit them all, right?

[Will Beararms]

Bob,

There are plenty of large department stores and small dealers who are not playing the political correctness game and who are putting their livelihoods on the line to offer the public a full range of firearms selections.

Walmart is playing this mickey mouse role of eliminating all handgun sales and sales of shotguns that look menacing. What will they do next? Stop selling any longarm that is capable of shooting more than once. The Second Amendment is not about hunting or target practicing or even guns that are pretty. It is about We The People having in our possession the ultimate check and balance against tyranny from the government.

Yes, Bob I will gladly cut my nose off to spite my face with Wal Mart since their firearms philosophies fall in line with those who would restrict our right to keep and bear arms to something that must be highly restricted versus the God-endowed right that it is.

Furthermore, I will glady pay more to support a concern who is supporting our freedom by letter and by spirit. When you support Wal Mart, you are helping them to further this agenda currently underway to relegate the Bill of Rights to the Bill of Needs. I for one, refuse to do this. If it means prioritizing my time to trade with a store that closes at 7:00 PM------great. If it means paying more-----so be it.



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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[Ruger guy]

Hey guys,

I find it really hard to believe that walmart, kmart or Joe Blows sporting goods chooses to sell or not sell firearms or a particular type of firearm based on any philosophical belief. It's purely a matter of profit and loss and acceptable or unacceptable potential loss. The local sporting goods store is not likely to be the victim of a negative world wide or national media smear campaign or a named defendant in a frivilous multi-million dollar law suite just because the firearm passed through their hands. Do you think the corner diner would have been sued for millions over a hot cup of coffee? If you believe that any of these businesses are in it for the philosophical belief in the bill of rights or anything remotely related to that then I'll bet you believe that McDonald's is only concerned about the possibility of all of the poor little earthlings starving to death.

I'm a small business man myself. I've supported the small stores and knowingly paid as much as $100.00 more for a given firearm out of the principle of supporting a small business. You know what, they didn't give a damn when I had problems and were no more supportive than Walmart. The only difference is a little more entertaining conversation when you walk into the store. They didn't pitch in anything extra for my grocery bill and I'm not pitching any more to their's unless they are the only ones in town with the product I want. They have done absolutely nothing to earn my dollar.

[larry_minn]

Ruger: Some gun stores do go the extra mile. Many will after you show up as a repeat customer. Will throw in some ammo on the deal, or at least a few targets/ear plugs. You can offer a lower price or accessories. "They don't have to take it" I have fond memories of some gun stores. Most "unfortunately" were over 120 miles away. BUT when I walked in the door I was greeted "as most everyone was" as if I had just been in yesterday. That store was sold and after two visits I have never been back. "494 and Lyndale ave" Bought 2 guns there for less then tags and got a spare mag on one and 2 boxes of cheap ammo on the other.

[This message has been edited by larry_minn (edited January 12, 2000).]

[larry_minn]

Ruger: Some gun stores do go the extra mile. Many will after you show up as a repeat customer. Will throw in some ammo on the deal, or at least a few targets/ear plugs. You can offer a lower price or accessories. "They don't have to take it" I have fond memories of some gun stores. Most "unfortunately" were over 120 miles away. BUT when I walked in the door I was greeted "as most everyone was" as if I had just been in yesterday. That store was sold and after two visits I have never been back. "494 and Lyndale ave" Bought 2 guns there for less then tags and got a spare mag on one and 2 boxes of cheap ammo on the other. Is this a double tap???? Computer kicked it back at me???? One more time.

[Will Beararms]

If any of don't think that Mossberg Persuaders were a marketable item with the recent advent of Y2K, I have some things for sale. There were a million NICS checks performed from 1 December to 24 December 1999 per SRN Radio. If you can't find a small gunstore or larger department store that is friendly, you may live on the East or Left Coast.

This is nothing more than CYA for Wal Mart, not profits or losses. If we were going strictly by cutomer desire there might be topless female cashiers for all we know. There is a n agenda afoot in this nation led by the 60's Hippies and Wal Mart is not immune to it.


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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[leedesert]

Many of you really need to cut back on your caffeine.

Wal-Mart sells what moves off their shelves. If enough people ordered these type shotguns they would stock them. The problem is most people who buy home defense shotguns buy on an off the shelf type purchase. If they don't see it in Wal-Mart they go to the local gun shop or Pawn Shop and pick one there. Also, the clerk at Wal-Mart is not educated in gun selection other then to show you where it is in the catalog. The Gun or Pawn shop dealer ussually is so again, most people go there.

Please stop screaming conspiracy and 2nd Amend. rights stuff just because Wal-Mart didn't have the model you wanted in stock. Maybe if you buy about 10 or 20 of that model a month they will stock it.

They WILL order the gun you want if you request it. They won't order it just to have one because they are not moving off the shelf enough to profit them.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16



[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited January 12, 2000).]

[Will Beararms]

Yes, I do like caffeine. I wrote a detailed letter to the President of Wal Mart, David Glass, during the second quarter of 1999 and the response was less than encouraging.

Pistols and Persuaders will no longer be special ordered by Wal Mart and there is a concerted effort buy the socialists in this country to limit the flow of an firearms deemed not necessary by Big Brother. Look at the discontinuance of pistol sales at Academy and Bass Pro Shops.

Call it what you will but if Bass Pro Shops and Academy are so concerned about the dangers of handguns, why do they still sell the ammunition?

Personal defense shotguns are a big mover for the simple reason that even people who don't care for guns will buy one to protect their family and because they are relatively inexpensive.

What will happen when the socialists go after Remington 11-87's and Marlin .30-30's what will you say then? Will it still be a profitability issue? Surely you mut realize that it's just a matter of time before this happens.

Don't worry about that Yellow Star of David, tax relief is just around the corner and CS Gas was not used on the Branch Davidians. Oh and BTW, "I did not have sex with that woman".


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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[leedesert]

According to my Super Wal-Mart I can order any legal shotgun from the manufacturers they deal with but they won't stock models that don't sell regularly. A home defense shotgun is not the most popular gun because most will buy a dual purpose shotgun so it will fill the roll of hunting as well. Y2K aside, hunting, trap and skeet shotguns are the most popular.

"What will happen when the socialists go after Remington 11-87's and Marlin .30-30's what will you say then? Will it still be a profitability issue? Surely you mut realize that it's just a matter of time before this happens".

O.K., what does your assumption have to do with Wal-Mart? We have to be active with our polititions to prevent that.

"I wrote a detailed letter to the President of Wal Mart, David Glass, during the second quarter of 1999 and the response was less than encouraging".

Would you care to tell us what he wrote back. Desparaging is a matter of opinion, let us formulate our own.

People need to start thinking about what they are doing before they black list some company because they don't carry their size pantyhose.
If Wal-Mart has made a formal move to not sell the persuader because they feel it is an inappropriate gun then let us see the proof. If there is some then we can all stand togethor. I'm a member of the NRA and GOA and neither have had any remarks about Wal-Mart.

So far I have seen this company stand up for guns when others (K-Mart) have whimped out. They need our complimants and kudo's rather then unsupported rants.

Let the Media make unsupported statements, they're good at it. If Wal-Mart is not selling certain shotguns for PC reasons then show me the proof. Like I said earlier, I can still order them here in Georgia so something must be wrong with your conclusion.


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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16



[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited January 12, 2000).]

[Will Beararms]

Everyone is entitled to their own choices. I for one will stay with a full service gun range or store who carries a broad selection of rifles,shotguns and pistols whether they are politically correct or not. I will reward those who strive to offer the best selection on the shelf.

Wal Mart started with placing pistol sales on a special order basis only. Next, they discontinued them altogether. Now they have selected to not stock Personal Defense Shotguns and that is fully within their perogative.

As for David Glass's reply, it was quickly put in the round file. I apologize for not keeping it. The proof is in the pudding. They no longer handle handguns and now they are not stocking personal defense shotguns. Do you think that they make a killing or have a high demand for every item stocked in the store? The answer is no but they do inventory a variety for one-stop shopping.

The point I am making is why aren't we supporting those businesses that do carry a full line of firearms and who are willing to put their rearends on the line so that you and I are able to purchase what we want when we want it. When we buy from a Wal Mart or an Academy, we are taking dollars away from the real Gun Shops and limiting our choices in the long run. I assure you, if all of the smaller chains and specialized gun stores go our of business, we will be in trouble when it comes time to buy a handgun, and assault-style rifle or a personal defense shotgun.

I ask the question again. If Wal Mart is concerned enough about gun vilolence and legal liability to stop selling handguns, why do they still sell the ammo? The least that they or K Mart can do is be consistent and have integrity versus cherry picking when it comes to priciples.

Most if not all of the small Gun Shops must make a profit to survive but it goes further than that. These entreprenuers sincerely care about sustaining the Second Amendment. If they have to make less of a profit on some guns to maintain a wide selection, they will. With Wal Mart, the bottom line is the bottom line.

I will confess to you that it goes further than just guns. When I was in the steel business, I saw firsthand how Wal Mart pays bills very slowly and how they treat their vendors. I saw how they would go into a manufacturer, like a lawn mower builder, agree on a set price and then once they had all the said supplier's production capacity, demand a significant reduction in price or leave the producer high and dry. Many of the companies I deal with now refuse to do business with Wal Mart on any terms.

I fully respect Leedesert's beliefs but as for me, I will stay with the smaller chains and smaller stores when any firearms, hunting or fishing purchases are made.


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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."


[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited January 12, 2000).]

[leedesert]

Thanks Will,
I respect your opinion as well. I haven't yet nor do I ever intend to buy any guns at Wal-Mart. I just don't want to start throwing rocks at one of the few department stores that still sell guns. The Wal-Mart where I live carries everything from 12 gauge to .300 winmags in both synthetic and wood stocks. I understand you have deeper reasons for not siding with Wal-Mart. I would encourage all people to buy guns from a reputable dealer in town, not some super center.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16

[Will Beararms]

Lee:

Forgive me for goig round and round on this one. We are on the same page and quite frankly, as much as I enjoy guns and shooting they pale in comparison to what will be.

I'll take streets of gold,flowing milk and honey and sunshine non-stop over all the guns in the world has to offer any day of the week. I consider hunting and shooting just a diversion while I'M still on this old earth.

It is sad to see what is happening to our freedom but it is all part of a larger plan.

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited January 13, 2000).]

[leedesert]

Amen.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16

[FireForged]

I bought the last Mossberg Persuader at my local Wal-Mart. The Clerk refused to sell me the Shotgun at first, stating that they were not allowed too. I asked for the Store Mgr and he quickly authorized the sale. The Mgr stated that they could sell what was in stock but would not offer the Persuader anymore. He stated that the board recently decided to only sell "hunting" weapons. I noticed that they still sold the Remington 700 in .223, I asked if that was a "hunting weapon" and all I got was "aaaaaaaaah, yeah".