Suppressed Rimfire Rifles

[ballistic gelatin]

Does anyone know where and how much and how to go about purchasing a suppressed .22 caliber rifle? Which one is the most quiet? I need to take out some armadillo's on a golf course surrounded by homes after dark (for money).

[C.R.Sam]

LawDog has some boots that attract armadillos. Might want to check out his secret. Be a lot cheaper and quicker than jumping through the assorted legal hoops and tax stamps involved in possessing a suppressed firearm.

Sam

[Crimper-D]

They have a listing for Supressors and supressed firearms, rimfires included. The dealis they have to be bought from a Class III dealer and have to be received by a ClassIII dealer in your state - Texas= no problem. The cost of the weapon is going to be high and then there's the Federal Transfer Tax and the dealers fees, but most Class III dealers will have the paperwork avilable or at least let you know where to send off for the proper forms.
All it is going to take is Money and time.:rolleyes:

Another idea would be to get a couple of boxes of Aguila SSS 60gr
subsonic rounds and fire them through a short chamberd .22boltaction equipped with a night sight. The OAL of these wierd loads is the same as a .22LR, but the case is 22Short with a very long 60 Grain bullet mounted on top of a small powder charge = a Very Subsonic load & Quiet out of a boltaction. I shoot them out of a 1/14" twist Russian target rifle & they are quiet.:) ...and a lot less trouble than the Dog & Pony Act the Federal regs demand.:mad:

[MatthewM]

I presume it would be illegal to fire your new 22 in city limits...

Although more dangerous, a much cheaper and really cool tool would be a cross bow. It would probably be completely legal as well.

[ctdonath]

What state & city? VERY important question.

http://www.awcsystech.com/
http://www.gem-tech.com/

[Coronach]

www.serbu.com

Mike

[Marko Kloos]

Moved to Art of the Rifle.

[ballistic gelatin]

St. Johns County, Florida...

I have the applications necessary to secure a permit to trap nuisance animals and a permit to hunt at night with a light and the Florida Wildlife Game Commissions blessing to go ahead with the project. There were some sweeties on the other end of the phone who were most helpful. The only thing that may be an issue is the weapons discharge in a residential area. The Florida Game Commission will provide me with all the contact info. when my license goes through. The Golf Community is not in the city, but in the county. However since there are homes nearby it is probably smart to let the rich guys from the Golf Course contact the Sherriff's Office and inform them of what "they" will be doing.

I am concerned about alerting neighbors in the night with a rifles report. I am going to get some low velocity ammo today and run some weapons tests. I was really considering the Aguila SSS with heavy lead. Will have to give it a try.

[Edward429451]

Browning would be my first choice for suppression because its a bottom eject and would muffle the mechanical noise even more.

Johnathan Arthur Ciener, out of Cape Canaveral FLA.

Or you could tape a 2 liter bottle to the end of the barrel. Sounds goofy, looks even goofier, but does work extremely well...

[ballistic gelatin]

Edward429451...if there's a two liter bottled duck taped to the end of my rifle, am I going to be able to see over it even with a rifle scope? More importantly do I need to place anything inside the two liter to make things quiet? GREAT IDEA by the way.

[Edward429451]

Depends on the setup you got, for seing over it. Try it and see. If no work, try one of those wide mouth mountain dew (1 liter) bottles.

I've done this quite a few times with the 2 liter bottles, and no you dont have to fill it up with any filler, empty is fine. Ducttape it securely so the bottle wont shift and it'll continue to spit em out of the same hole. Its not just a one shot deal, it'll continue to muffle the sound quite admirably as long as its on the rifle and dont shift. In fact I'd make sure your first starter hole is already in place before you get serious with it, for accuracy reasons.
Good luck, and let us know how it worked out for you!

Being paid to have fun? Sweeet.:D

[ballistic gelatin]

Heading out to pick up a few things right now and will definately get some mountain dew while I'm out (I'm thirsty). Will let you know how the range time goes.

If I want to get paid I have to convince the Golf Course guy that I can really do it without having a Rambo attitude and be professional at every turn. I've been rehearsing my lines, especially the part about how terrible the armadillo is. I plan on mapping out my lanes of fire on the course to avoid any houses or pets and will outline times for each zone so security feels like they have a handle on everything. I figured enough money to cover any equipment fees and some labor would be plenty. I'll update ya'll as things progress with hopes to provide some pictures....eewww.

[pocat]

Suggestion for a night vision scope on a budget -

Buy a red dot scope with a variable brightness dot. (Most all are.) I bought a Simmons for about 45 bucks.

A Night Owl night vision monocular can be had at Wally World for around 160 bucks. I'm not sure of the model number of mine, but it's the basic model.

If you're handy enough with tools, you can mount the red dot forward on the rifle (about 5 inches), and rig a mount behind it to hold the Night Owl's front lens in alignment with the rear lens of the red dot. The improvised rig doesn't have to be perfectly solid - it only has to be mounted in a way that the dot shows up in the center of the phosphorus screen when both units are turned on. You should also get a good field of view through the red dot scope. However, the red dot has to be mounted solidly to retain zero.

Turn the dot brightness ALL THE WAY DOWN before you turn on the Night Owl. If the dot is too bright, it could "flood" the NV unit and possibly cause damage.

The attached picture of my rifle now has this set up on it. I haven't fired it at night yet, but the red dot on it now holds zero and I'm just waiting for warmer nights to test it with Winchester sub-sonics.

[Jim Watson]

Be advised that a bottle on the muzzle IS legally a silencer. I think the BATF even categorized an adapter with one side threaded for one of the common flash hider threads and the other threaded to take a Pepsi bottlemuzzle as a silencer. Pay a $200 tax on a bottle and a roll of tape? Considering you are going to be shooting armadillos under official sanction, best be sure to be legal in all respects.

[ballistic gelatin]

Thank you Jim Watson. I suppose it would not look very professional if the Golf Course Security team wanted to inspect the tools either.

[Oakleaf]

Guys, please forgive this indulgence, but us Brits so very very rarely get this chance - moderators ( silencers ) - Whats the problem - move to the UK!!!!:D

Fitting a moderator to a .22 is standard practise over here and it is relatively easy to get authority on your FAC - eg if you shoot rabbits etc.

I have a 10/22 with a 'sound-biter' - the action noise and bullet strike ( CCI subs ) is louder than the report.

THe latest guidelines also confirm fairly ready access to full -bore rifle moderators for wild-life control - stalikng etc.

Only if you wish to fit a moderator to a firearm does it require an FAC. If you are purchasing for an air-rifle, paper -weight etc etc, it is an over-the-counter transaction - no regulation.

But.....

let us not turn the discussion toward handguns, self loading/ pump action centre fire, expanding ammunition, good reasons.....

[Schmit]

Going to throw in another option here.

If you have a Pre-Ban AR what you could consider is to get suppressor for that in addition to a .22 Conversion kit.

A few of the benefits -

A stand alone Suppressor is cheeper then a dedicated suppressed .22

A .223 Suppressor will work on a .22 (though not as effectly as a dedicated .22LR suppressor)

You have the option of using the suppressor on numerous firearms (just have to get the barrel threaded to accept the suppressor) (both rifle and .22 handguns though with a handgun it will tend to be a "tad" muzzle heavy ;) )

You have the option of using .223 for "larger" game and the .22 for "small" game.

I've had a .223 suppressor for years for my AR. Also got a .22 LR kit. Hitting a Northern Attack Bullfrog at 75 yards is not a problem after you get the scope sighted in. :D

Keep in mind that a suppressor only reduces the report of the rifle... not the sonic crack of the bullet. However, with .223 ammo if someone is in their house watching TV they may hear a slight sound of you fireing or they may not. Depends on how attentive they are and where they are in relation to the shot (bullet path).

[ryucasta]

What kind of animals are you going after, if its varmint size like raccoons, opossums and coyotes and the ranges are under 50 yards CB Longs will be more than adequate for the job.

If not Remington makes a sub sonic hollow point that has a little more stopping power down range.

My only concern with 22-rim fire is Alligators since they are also considered nuisance animals in Florida and I seriously doubt that a rim fire round would be able to stop one.

For more information on suppressed rounds check out this website.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

[goosegunner]

Gun laws allow a .50BMG rifle, but NOT a suppressed
rimfire rifle? :confused:

[Edward429451]

'Attack Bullfrog'

"He was comin' right at me!!"

Classic.

Sorry if I was given out inappropriate "illegal" advice, every once in awhile I slip and think I'm still living in America...

"I got my mind right now, boss. I'll get my dirt out of your hole."
"No failure to communicate here boss, I got my mind right."

Amerika, only place on earth ducttape and empty soda bottle will make you a felon....

[Commander Fan]

I thought you British folks were all disarmed. I always see videos and news-clips of everyone carrying clubs or batons, even the law enforcement community.

People of the anti-gun movement, here in America, always use Great Britan as an example of a "Disarmed society that works."

Apparently they have been misinformed about your country's firearms ownership status, just as I have.

I had thought the same thing about Norway, but later found that they could own just about anything, but must pay a $30 fee to the Government.

$30 sounds like alot, if you have a large firearms collection, but we Americans forget there is a 10% or 15% "Federal Excise Tax" attached to each new firearm we purchase. It's usually hidden within the price, but some companies like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, DPMS, etc., let you know it exists.

So what are British citizens allowed to own? Apparently semi-autos are legal, since you mentioned the 10/22 in your post.

[Schmit]

Ed,

I'm telling ya... I've had alllllll kinds of problems with animals. The Attack Bullfrogs at Charlie Pond was just one. Maybe some day you'll read or I'll tell you about my encounter with Fowl Red Terrorists! :eek:

Then again... it just my be my perspective on things. ;)

Commander,

From my limited understanding Suppressors (aka moderators, mufflers) do not have the same stigma overseas as they have here (thanks Hollywood!) and are considered quite normal (even perfered by neighbors of firearms owners who shot on their property (sound reduction is a curtious thing to do))

[Oakleaf]

Commander fan - complete answer goes off topic - please refer to some of my posts under legal & political for detail.

Lack of publicity is probably because we are all 'running' around with quiet rifles!!!:p

[Art Eatman]

Thread Drift:

The Dingell/Johnson 11% excise tax on firearms has accumulated over a billion dollars in its over-50-year history. It is sent back to the state wildlife agencies, pro-rated by the number of hunting licenses, and provides much of the funding for wildlife research. It came about at the behest of sportsmen, nationwide.

The Pitman/Robinson law extended the tax to other outdoor items (details escape me; handguns? fishing tackle?), and is also pro-rated back to the states.

Art

[navaho]

"Amerika, only place on earth ducttape and empty soda bottle will make you a felon...."

It's worse than that: one of the Paladin tapes (the one on improvised silencers) mentioned a case where a guy got sent to prison for making a silencer out of a toilet paper roll and stuffing from a toy animal.

As far as the JBT's at the BATF are concerned, all that matters is that someone *attempted* to make a silencer. It doesn't have to work...

[Khornet]

If your shots don't have to be very long, CB Longs from a rifle are perfect. From my Win 52 they sound like a staple gun. Short barrels are louder, pistols are the worst. Much cheaper and quicker than suppression.

[Clemson]

Back on Subject: Ballistic Gelatin's original question was where and what he could buy suppressed. I have experience with a Ruger Model 7722 suppressed. It is quite accurate and almost dead silent. The bolt action is a plus. This gun is owned and used by the local sheriff's department for animal control work. I would suggest that you contact law enforcement supply outlets for such a weapon. They are commercially available.

[UltimaThule]

CommanderFan, those 30 dollars we pay in Norway isn't a gun fee, it's an application fee. Just like there is a fee involved to get a building permit or to register a car or to start a business... the list is endless. And the fee isn't per gun, it's per application, so if you apply for more than one gun at the time, the price per gun goes down accordingly. No application, no fee to buy a suppressor, though :)

Now back on topic. Any rimfire is quiet when suppressed, and any decent-quality muzzle can will do the job, with no alteration to the gun, except for threading of the muzzle. That way you can also use the same suppressor for several guns (if that is legal in the US), with your prices and taxes that would be a point. Anyway, a can should be considerably cheaper than a custom built gun, and just as good, as long as the veolcity is kept subsonic. That is the main thing those "fully suppressed" guns do, the barrel is shortened and/or ventilated inside the suppressor in order to lower the velocity of full power loads.

A bolt or single shot is best, in my opinion. No sound of the action cycling, and more important, no failure to feed as a result of using low power cartridges. But it will of course work with a self loader as well, and I know how all-important firepower is to you Americans :) Personally I have a suppressed bolt action .22 rifle for "long" range and a suppressed .22 auto pistol for when the rats attack in force...

One thing that amazes me is the price of suppressors over there, not including the 200 dollar tax stamp. I looked at some web sites and it lookes like a .22 suppressor costs from 200 hundred to several hundred dollars. I can buy one over the counter for 50 dollars (that includes a 24 per cent VAT/sales tax). 300 would buy me a full-caliber rifle suppressor. I want one for my .30-06, I just have to twist my arm a little more to convince myself I really need it :D

[Art Eatman]

Back when I was a kid with my first '06, I loaded up some hot 80-grain varmint loads. Lord knows, around 3,800 ft/sec, maybe. (55 grains of 3031!)

Two buddies held an automobile glass-pack muffler in line with the railroad tracks, along which weree all those telegraph poles. I shot through the muffler, which definitely reduced the muzzle blast.

The bullet, going past the telegraph poles at supersonic speed, sounded like a machine gun! Not all THAT loud, but definitely audible.

Ah, youth!

:D, Art

[dfaugh]

There's a website, I think in Finland, that would be REAL helpful...don;t have time to search for it again...but search for "cats sneeze" or "silent without a silencer"...it explains how to make load (for rifles) using, for example, a 7.62x54R of .308 case, a 00buck-ball and a small amount of fast-burning pistol powder...these loads just make a pfffft (That's the technical term!) or "cat's sneeze"..Apparently used by the Fin's against the Nazis...Throws more lead than a .22 (must be fairly effective, as they killed humans...aughta work on gators, too)...Said to be accurate at reasonable ranges..I haven't had time to try it out, myself...Oh, site IS in english, BTW

[johelin]

There's a website, I think in Finland, that would be REAL helpful......Oh, site IS in english, BTW

I think the site you mean is this, guns.connect.fi (http://guns.connect.fi)

Apparently used by the Fin's against the Nazis...Throws more lead than a .22 (must be fairly effective, as they killed humans

Did you skip history classes ? :)

The lowest price for .22 can here is around 20-25 dollars. Rifle suppressors start from 130 dollars.

This may bring a good combination of power and silence for alligators, etc.

[Art Eatman]

Five grains of shotgun or pistol powder behind a round lead ball in a .308 or '06 is a nice squirrel load. Should do for head shots on people of the Nazi persuasion, if it doesn't bounce off a frontal-cranial hit. "Cat sneeze" is a pretty good term, but the load wouldn't even bother a gator. (There isn't enough pressure to expand the case neck.)

I have visions of our intrepid 'diller-hunter out on the golf course at night, and running across an eight-foot gator near a water trap. :D The problem with gator confrontations is that they're usually pointed at you--giving a narrow target. The angle can lead to ricochets off the head--which is a Bad Thing, as it upsets the gator and makes him even meaner. However, you can easily hold his jaws shut so he can't bite you.

Armadillos go ga-ga over earthworms, and are fairly easily caught in a Hav-a-hart type of trap. Keeping the earthworms in place in the trap is YOUR problem, not mine.

:), Art

[USMCsilver]

WWW.GEM-TECH.COM

Just buy a complete integrel suppressed .22.

[MAD DOG]

Some "This way to free earthworms" signs would be helpful.
Be sure that they are done up in "armadillo friendly" colors.

Use a dot of super glue to keep the worms on the trap treadle.

Then, once the armadillos are in the trap, a small microswitch attached to the treadle of the trap could trigger an explosion that would vaporize the armadillo in a huge ball of fire.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Of necessity for achieving the most style points, the armadillo MUST see a little LED display that lights up and counts down from ten once he has triggered the bomb.

Additional style points awarded if there is a small color LCD screen in the cage as well, so the armadillo can see your gloating face as he is blown to smithereens.
heh heh. That would be cool.

Sell Jerry Bruckheimer the film rights.

[ballistic gelatin]

Here's what I had in mind.

http://www.haro-online.com/stuff/joedirt2.jpg

[jwise]

Oh how I wish Hollywood had never heard of the suppressor. We in the US might be as fortunate as our European brothers when it comes to quiet shooting.

I do so hate ear protection.

[johelin]

Suppressors don't free you from using ear protection. I shoot only 22s without earmuffs. Noise from centerfire rifles is still considerable. Also the guy next to you may not be using silencer.