Mini 14 400yds PICTURES!!!!!!!!!

[Jamie Young]

Well now you can all close your Eyes and "pretend" its not true. But it is:p

25rds were fired in 45seconds and I put two off paper right above the head of the target. I didn't pass the 45 seconds 30rd test but I know I'll do it with a little more practice. Not bad for a POS rifle that can't hit the broad side of a barn past 100yds.


I'm not an AR hater but I came to the same conclusions Denny did in the lastest Issue of S.W.A.T. Magazine. The gun he shot is the EXACT same Mini I have.

If you guys still want me to trade this thing in for an AR, I'll take cash donations to think about it;)

[Jamie Young]

400yd picture

[Jamie Young]

Here's My $450 POS Rifle

:rolleyes:

[Sundance]

Hey...like that flash hider...

Where did you get it? Does it have a new post front sight with protective wings instead of the blade on the stock rifle? Is it hard to install...describe the process. Does the finish match up with the rifle?

[Abominable No-Man]

I LIKE IT!

I recently bought an AR, and a few months back I came to the
conclusion that the M-16 and it's kind aren't as bad as I always
thought (I know, I know, but I was brought up on wood and
steel rifles- Garands, P1917 U.S. Enfield, Carbine, early Mini-14,
etc- that's what my old man had), but when my initial fervor died
down, I'm still convinced that there are better weapons than the
AR. Looks like I'll have to pick up the new S.W.A.T. issue......

BTW, I'll second the flash hider questions.....fill us in, hey?

ANM

[Jamie Young]

I got it threw Bushmaster of all places LOL! I don't think it made a difference in accuracy or anything. I just thought it looked cool. I think they sell them at www.deltaforce.com now.

Oh and I used 55gr American Eagle ammo THE WORST stuff in My ammo can. I shot off a bench, so its more of a test of the gun, than the shooter.

I haven't tried any of My reloads past 200yds so i don't know what kind of Groups I would have gotten that far out. I sited it in at 200yds, and just clicked 5MOA down on the scope, and it was dead on.

Its not hard to install. You will have to do some drilling to mount it properly. It does have a sight post on the front of it. And it did purfectly match up with the Rifle.

[Blue Duck357]

Hey Soda, since were on the Mini-14 and you seem to be doing pretty well with yours:)

Do you know what the twist is in the mini 14 and if it's fast enough to stabilize the current millitary surplus rounds (SS-109?)

[Jamie Young]

After I shoot up all the American Eagle ammo I got a few years ago, I'll only be firing what I reload. I only reload IMI bullets out of My 1-9 twist Mini 14. When I first started Reloading, I only shot the 62gr bullets, and got down to 2MOA with them. Since I got a Dillon 550B a few months ago, My 55gr M193 clone loads were under 2MOA.

So to answer your question.....

I found consistant Powder charges made more of a difference than Bullet weights. I'm willing to bet the 62gr and 69gr bullets I reload, would hold up better in the wind, but thats about it.

[Blue Duck357]

Thanks for the information!

[Gewehr98]

but weren't you supposed to connect with the silhouetted image on the paper? ;)

Just worked with a fellow range officer today on his stainless Mini-30. We were somewhat startled how much better it grouped with handloads. The stainless muzzle brake/flash-hider helped a good bit, too. One thing we did notice, however, was that the first round out of the magazine ALWAYS went to a different position on the target, compared to it's following rounds. I attributed it to the manual closing of the bolt, compared to the autoloading of the rest of the rounds. Weird.

[Ewok_Guy]

ROTFLMAO!!!!! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/rotfl.gif

[nascarnhlnra]

Great work Sodapop. I recently bought a new synthetic/SS/Ranch model myself and love it!I have only used a few different factory loads so far and prefer the 55 grain American Eagle ammo over the PMP African stuff.I don't load my own yet.

[DesertRat]

Soadpop,

I've been following your posts regarding your Mini-14 and the purported lack of accuracy as perceived by some people. I know that several AR guys are stating that the Mini is a POS, but I disagree and I OWN both.

I've owned a Mini-14 for about 10 years now, a SS Ranch. I have sucessfully hunted Coyotes (iron sighted) out beyond 250 yards. Granted these carbines aren't designed to hit a coyote sized animal out to that distance, but it is possible.

The groups you evidenced in your pic does not surprise me at all. As for my mini it has NEVER jammed and it is accurate enough for what it is. For those who have owned a hopelessly inaccurate Mini, perhaps they got a bad example or quite possibly they are a shi*ty shot anyway. :barf:

As for my Bushmaster AR-15, I'll bet $$$ that it can't take as much abuse (getting dropped on rocks, tossed around, etc.) as a Mini-14. Personally, I appreciate both. ;)

[Jamie Young]

What kind of Bullets did you use for Coyotes? What bullet weights?

[DesertRat]

Sodapop,

I've used UMC 55gr FMJ almost exclusively for hunting coyotes. I've not experimented much with HPs, SPs, etc. with the .223 as I think the 55gr FMJ works just fine and UMC seems to be the brand most common in my neck of the woods.

You know, shortly before I bought my AR I joined AR-15.com and noticed that SOME of the guys over there are always fretting over what changes they can make to their rifles, what ammo is better than the next, lights, lazers, all manner of various mounts, etc. They sorta seem like the mall ninja types. You know the guys who never go to the field much, but rather just polish their ARs and hang tuff in front of the mirror. Don't get me wrong, hobbies are great, but I think some of those types think the AR is the epitome of perfection. Three words: ARs AREN'T PERFECT.

The point of all of this is that I posted a reply to one of their threads where they were arging the battlefield effectiveness of the 5.56x45 (as they must refer to it). Seems some Blackhawk Down SF's Veteran complained about the .223 not working too great. Anyway, would you believe it. Not one of the dozens of posts cited real world use of their ARs to kill anything. I posted a response regarding the use of my Mini on Coyotes perhaps you might like to read.

[Dangus]

On the other hand, when you buy an AR, chances are you aren't supporting treasonous scum....

[DesertRat]

Dangus,

Point taken.


I too have no great love of Bill Ruger's PC activities. Thus, I have not purchased ANY of Ruger's products in 10 years.


DR

[Jamie Young]

I don't have a Digital Camera which is part of the reason I rushed to get all this stuff done last sunday when all the Other TFLer's were around. DonQatu do you have a Digital Camera? I could shoot up a bunch of targets and mail them back to you. I still have your address on the tube you sent me. I can sandbag the gun and send you the targets. I know I can hit Clays at 200yds with My gun so I don't understand why a Mini 14 that shoots 2-4MOA with a .223 round isn't going to shoot 2-4MOA at 400yds? Why would a Mini 14's MOA not hold up at 400yds and an AR's would stay the same?

[Jamie Young]

Don all the bullets are within 16inchs on that target except the two that are off paper by the head. Obviously bad shots. I have another target I shot at a few weeks ago and all the rounds are under 15 inches. I just took a few pictures with My camera and I'll take it down to the 1hr photo development. If it turns out clear I'll try and scan it and post it tonight or tomorrow. Its 20rds on paper untimed.

[C.R.Sam]

What's with the scope ?

Cheatin ?

Sam

[Jamie Young]

It's a Ranch Model C.R.Sam.

[Jamie Young]

Down Boy!!!

Well I think your getting a little carried away here Mister. Let's also not forget I ran 400yds downrange and ran back and had only 1 attempt under the clock. The gun put all of the rounds way down in the body and just a few in the head. My POA was right in the Center of the body. All the rounds are right in there with a few straight above it. Let's not forget this was done in 45seconds and not from a sandbag or vice. When the gun barrel heats up its not going to just spread vertically:p Why don't I have any outside the body to the left or the right?

[Marcus]

I`ll go to bat for Soda here. I was at the TFL shoot where he shot those groups. In the time I walked to the 100yd. range to check my targets and walked back to the bench he RAN to the 400yd. and RAN all the way back again then shot the groups in question quickly because the range was closing in like 2mins.! If I`d done that I would have been wheezing on the bench trying to catch my breath yet. :o Marcus

[Jamie Young]

Actually I've been meaning to ask you about your experiences with them.

I'll do some more testing. I'm curious to find out about that because I have seen unexplained zingers at 100yds but it always evened out. After 3rds under 2MOA with the American Eagle then usually a zinger. Then it spread to 3MOA. I'll try and sandbag My gun and fire 100rds in a fairly short period of time and see what happens.

I know that I had a few loose rounds when I was under the clock. I don't have steady hands but I know where the bullets went when I pull the trigger.

[Jamie Young]

Yeah tell 'em Marcus;)

Yeah this was more of a Decathalon. Maybe it will snow next time and I can Ski down range. We did eventually get kicked off the range. They were a little mean about that.

[Dave3006]

Sodapop did good. Besides, all this anal obsession on group size does not equate to combat effectiveness. Sheer luck will determine whether you live or die. Then, other factors such as tactics, movement, cover, good judgement, physical condition ect...

Your rifle is so low on the list it is funny. Buy the gun you like to shoot. If or when the SHTF, it doesn't really matter which you choose within reason.

[Jamie Young]

Well this on going discussion between Don and I is pretty fair. He sent me targets and I accepted his challege. So he's got a right to be a tough about it. This was more about me claiming to be able to put 30rds on Paper in 45seconds than what My group size was.
Plus Don claims he's had 3 Mini's so I'm listening to what he says.

The real debate I've gotten sick of is the MIni 14 can't hit anything past 100yds. Well even with a 24in group at 100yds its proof you can hit a man sized target.

[Art Eatman]

Sheesh, DonQ, whaddya want, already? Egg in your beer?

If a thin-walled barrel can get a halfway decent group (anything inside two MOA for a hunting rifle) of three or five shots in a rather slow rate of fire, it's plenty good! Anybody expecting a rifle built like a Mini to pump out 25 or 30 shots in 45 seconds and not warp and spread groups hasn't been paying attention.

A little more practice at "quick-quick" and he just may well get the 30 shots in. I don't recall a "first effort only" or any time limit in this argument. :) All things considered, I'd say that SodaPop did doggoned good, and he's got a very good little rifle! I'd have to say that right now, the rifle's doing better than he is; wait 'til he learns how!

After all, that's less than two seconds per shot to cycle, get back on the bags, re-acquire the sight picture and pull the trigger. "Take off runnin'; stop when you feel safe."

:D, Art

[C.R.Sam]

Soda Pop......I apologize for my previous smartassed remark about usin a scope. The 400 yd run is a biggie.

Sam

[nascarnhlnra]

Some just wont believe anything unless an AR was used and I'm not sure someone having had 3-5 mini's means anything cause maybe said person just can't shoot no pun just a reality check it's not always the gun.

[trapshooter]

Looks like a pretty darn good target to me. I wouldn't be able to hit a car after hotfooting it 400 yards and back. Forget what you did it with, (although I will say that the sneering at mini-14's should drop off a bit).

[Point Blank]

Standing up, shooting fast???? Very impressive,mighty fine shootin there!!! :p Oh...400 YARDS?? Very nice.....

[ronin308]

That's not bad shooting for being under the stress of time and after a nice sprint. Next time when you get all set up I bet your groups will be even better. Good luck!

Dan

[nascarnhlnra]

By the way what was the time on the 400 yard dash? Gotta love them mini's atleast me and Sodapop do.

[MeekAndMild]

Let's also not forget I ran 400yds downrange and ran
back and had only 1 attempt under the clock.

Running probably made the breathing and heart rate go up, explaining why you were less effective than you'd hoped for those few flyers. Even sandbagging won't help the pattern if the pulse is pounding.

We should agree that the poor guy can spend his 45 seconds shooting and not putting up the targets, don't you think?:p

[Erich]

Gee, out here in the "Wild West," we use trucks to run targets out to any distance beyond 200 yards.
:)

[Jamie Young]

Oh thats ok C.R.Sam.

I thought maybe you didn't have your GXS in the morning. If I only I brought a nice chunk of DC with Me maybe I wouldn't have had the shakes.

[Troy]

Just some experience:

I don't own a Mini, though I know a number of people who do, and have shot with and/or coached them on their shooting. This has allowed me to see 6 or 7 different Minis in action.

The Mini-14 *does* have the accuracy problems that it's known so well for. However, it would seem like a surprisingly large percentage of its inaccuracy comes from the poor fit of the wood stock. The models with the factory synthetic stock have been noticably more accurate, generally between 2 and 3 MOA with ammo they like.

With this in mind, I recommended the Choate synthetic stock to a friend who was about to sell his wood-stocked Ranch due to his frustrations with its inaccuracy. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The Choate fits the action even better than the factory synthetic, and accuracy down in the 2 MOA range. That's a BIG difference from the 6-8 MOA that I've seen him get from a 100-yard benchrest.

Yes, the Mini will still string rounds when the barrel heats up, and still has "first shot" variances. But if you already own one, and are generally happy with it, and are willing to trade the wood stock for a considerable accuracy gain, try a synthetic stock, preferably the Choate. It may give new life to your Mini too...

-Troy

[slidelock1]

In my opinon the Mini 30 has much worst accuracy than the mini 14, so maybe this contributes to the guns poor reputation. I think the gun does a great job at what it was designed for - Ranch work and general plinking. Ruger never intended this gun to be a tack driver or to go into combat and be fired in 20-30 rounds rapid fire. I think of it as a semi-auto replacement for the .30-30 lever action and it does that great. My father who at the time was ranching bought one to replace his .30-30 because it was short and quick, he correctly thought it would give him a better chance at targets between 100 and 200 yards with iron sights and he loved that he could keep it unloaded in his farm truck behind the seat but jerk a magazine out of the glove box slam it in the rifle and be fully loaded. Try that with a lever action.

[Sundance]

I am a fan of the Mini 14 so don't get me wrong here but...

Ruger never intended this gun to be a tack driver or to go into combat and be fired in 20-30 rounds rapid fire.

I have to disagree. Umm...they made a select fire model you know. Kinda hard to fire full auto and it not be rapid fire. And while I don't have the documentation in front of me to support this, I understand that some foreign militaries have actually adopted it as a service rifle. Not to mention all of the police agencies in the U.S. who carry them.

The "Ranch Rifle" concept came out as an afterthought after the original Mini 14. By naming it "Mini 14" I think they wanted it to take on the role of a little M14, and the M14 was a tack driver and intended to go into combat and be fired 20-30 rounds rapid fire.

Just my opinion...

[Jamie Young]

I think your thinking of the AC556.

[Jamie Young]

I heard that too............. Ruger has sold Mini 14's to some South American Countries. I don't know if its Police or Military.

[Jamie Young]

A South American Country :) One of 'em:p

[JohnKSa]

I think the Bahamas marching band carries them...

That's the funniest thing I've seen in awhile.

For the record, the Ranch Rifle I owned had a laminate stock and would do 2-3moa with a scope. The iron sights were pretty bad (almost non-function IMO) until I did a lot of work on them.

Good shooting,

John

[Sundance]

I said...

I don't have the documentation in front of me to support this

I just heard it or read it somewhere...I don't know it for a fact...I do think I remember it was something third world...maybe in South America...

[Sundance]

I just went back and reviewed your posts on this topic and after doing so, I'm sorry I even bothered to reply to your inquiry. You are obviously biased against the Mini and have a generally sarcastic method of letting everybody know about it. It would seem to me that anybody who hated the Mini so much wouldn't waste his time talking on a post about Minis.

[Mustang6]

dosnt an AR Er mil version have a 1-7 twist? and at 500 open sites i shoot better than that ;)

[slidelock1]

The fact that the original models design was not conductive to mounting a scope is pretty good evidence that the designers did not see this gun taking on the role of benchrest rifle. The ranch model, to correct this shortcoming, came about due to consumer and dealer request for such a feature. And if the gun was offered as a military version it is just as accaptable as the A1 M16 with its slender barrel profile that proved to be unacceptable on a service rifle due to its lack of accuracy as the barrel heated up. From the original post however I agree the gun is "Battlefield accurate" if you can keep shots on a torso size target at 400 yards.

[Art Eatman]

slide, there are a number of folks who can't seem to understand that not every rifle is intended to provide great target accuracy. Further, they can't seem to understand that any thin-walled barrel will "wobble about a bit" when it's heated by firing. These rifles perform quite adequately for three to five shots and hunting-type accuracy.

Anybody who can't put three to five slow-fire shots from a Mini-14 into three MOA or less at 100 yards probably needs more practice in how to align the sight picture.

:), Art

[nascarnhlnra]

Very well spoken Art!

[LBC]

SodaPop, I've got to chime in here and say "Good for you!".
I always enjoy reading your defenses of the Mini-14 and now you have the proof of your claims. Makes me wanna head down to the shop tonight and fondle some walnut and blue steel .... What's that, my Springfield M1A? You say you need a little brother safe mate? Hmmm.... :)

[Lavan]

with that group.
That is a good group. The mini is a good rifle. A Rem 700x target rifle will group better.

I like minis. I like AR's too. In Calif, we can't have an AR so the mini groups 100% better than them here.

[Deaf Smith]

The NYPD and the Texas DPS do use the Mini-14GB. And I hear they are happy with them.

I also think several Caribbean nations use them. True, they are 4th rate nations, and more like police forces than military. But with that being said, my Micro-14 will easly stay on a IDPA '0' ring at 200 yards (it's a 10 inch ring). And that is with open sights, no scope, no fancy ammo, 10 shot string, and with the barrel heating up.

Deaf

[Tamara]

Sundance, which foreign militaries adopted the Mini-14 or it's select fire equivalent? Could you please name them?!!!

The British RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary, the paramilitary police force in Northern Ireland) used the Mini-14/AC556 for a long time. They may still, I'm not sure. Can dig up plenty of photos of guys in DPMS smocks and berets or wooly-pullies and peaked caps clustered around Shorland or Glover Webb Armoured Patrol Vehicles toting Rugers.

[Jamie Young]

You ought to do that Tamara.

DonQatu won't take your word on it. YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT to him.:)

I might be able to make another attempt in the next two weeks. I'll try out some of My reloads next time. Stay Tuned!!!

[Sundance]

Thanks for the backup Tamara and SodaPop!

[Jody Hudson]

I think we DO have to give SodaPop a little extra lee-way regarding his Biathalon running down 400 yards to the target and back. That run would have likely KILLED some of us more SUBSTANTIAL folks.

It was a lot of fun. But, sorry SodaPop, I'm no more inclined to purchase another Mini than I was before the shoot. First of all, I am not willing to do hand-loads to get what I consider to be unacceptable accuracy. It was a heck of a lot more accurate than my Minis though... Mine would have missed the backstop at that range. And, if I had been shooting, and running down to that target and back, my heirs would have been selling the Mini after the event.

I am likely to want to join you fine folks at the next shoot however. It was a FUN time.