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Old December 5, 2000, 01:46 PM   #1
JoeSF
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I have been considering a couple of quality 9mm of which Beretta 92 is one. I fired a fairly new Sig 226 recently after my friend flawlessly emptied a clip, and it jammed several times. At first I thout it was just me, but it then stared jamming for my friend as well. He said it was the first time it ever happened and was probably his ammo which was a couple of years old. The experience killed my confidence in the Sig which seems to me to be a top rated weapon. Unfortunately I don't have a Beretta to find out if it would have been any better.
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Old December 5, 2000, 03:05 PM   #2
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I think that that honor has to go to Ruger!!!
They are ugly as sin, but they are tough as nails, and eat anything that they are fed.
I have a couple of Glocks, they are very reliable, but I have had a few misfires with them. None so far from my Ruger P95. It even digests the dirtiest ammo that I know off; Wolf, without even so much as a hiccup. Based on that, I would have to go with Ruger.
Sorry Gaston.
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Old December 5, 2000, 03:09 PM   #3
JohnO
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My P226 has not failed in over 10yrs. My friends has gone longer than that. He bought his first. I call that reliable. Although, you probably can't go wrong with either the 92 or 226.
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Old December 5, 2000, 03:11 PM   #4
Ben
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I agree with the Ruger comment... also look at the Beretta 92 FS. Maybe the S&W 59-- series, Kahr K-9, Sig 229 and Browning HP.

Obviously all the big names,
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Old December 5, 2000, 03:28 PM   #5
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Don't own a Beretta, but friends do and speak highly of them, especially the reliability. Gunwriters praise the 92's reliablity.

My SIG 228 has been jam free in the ~3k rounds through it.

However the most reliable 9mm I have is the one I am most familiar with - the P7. I now own 5 of them, bought my first one about 10 years ago and have fired many thousands of rounds thru a few of them.

I shoot factory ammo only and have never, repeat never, nada, zip, non, nilch, jams, FTF, FTE with my P7.

And I do confess to having jams with some semis. 1911s ocassionally hiccup, as do my BHP or CZ75. But for me HK (in P7 and USP flavors) and SIG have offered the best reliability.
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Old December 5, 2000, 03:33 PM   #6
RON in PA
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In my experience, 100 % reliable:

Glock 17
CZ-75B
FN & FM Hi-Power
Ruger 89
Glock 19 & Glock 26 after first couple of mags
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Old December 5, 2000, 04:10 PM   #7
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I can't speak highly enough of my Beretta pistols. No failures from any of them. All have been shot extensively and some are over 15 years old now... speaks volumes to me of their durability...

Darryl
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Old December 5, 2000, 04:14 PM   #8
cobraman
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???

Something just isnt right. I have had 3 SIGs never a jam.
What kind of jams were these?
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Old December 5, 2000, 04:22 PM   #9
Quantum Singularity
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My Sig 239 has never failed on me. Even when limpwristing (to test reliability out), it keeps on firing. I highly recommend the Sig 239.
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:02 PM   #10
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Reliable easy and easy one . . . Glock or HK P7.

How many guns can and regularly go 50K, 80K, or 100K plus? How many torture tests have they put them through?

The law enforcement community has the most experience with good and bad guns. LAPD will be going Glock. The fed LEAs are Glock carriers. your local PD also carry drastic plastic.

Any of the 9mm Glocks will serve you well especially the comact sizes.

The blueing on the Sigs and Berettas just don't hold up.

The Sig's aluminum frame has been a problem with peening and pitting and cracking. Yeah, the Glocks just had a bad batch of polymer and some of the frames cracked. But Glock replaced them.

For 16-18 years running, the Glock 17 has been a great gun. My old 1986 Glock 17 has been through several owners and still drills a 2" hole at 25 or 30 yards and I paid $400 for it with a pair of hi-caps two years ago.

How else is going to hold value and look good that long. It's the polymer and the tennifer.

Other than a Glock, I'd go for a P7 if your budget holds up. Just get it hard chromed.
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:11 PM   #11
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And let's be specific here, most jams and misfires are operator error, limp wristing, hard primers, improperly loaded mags, fatigued magazine springs, or failure to fully rack the slide, most of which has nothing to do with the gun's reliability but our failure to properly deploy the tool.

When it comes down to it, I'll take a Sig, my P220 and P226 have been great guns but I have had to replace several sets of springs and get my P220 reblued.

Kahr makes some good 9mms but have seen several broken springs and problems with their slides as the gunsmith at my range worked on them.

Beretta's are good guns if you have the post LAPD slide snatch problem fixed. But not well known for their accuracy.

Some of the SW like the 3913 on up are nice too but they are prone to mag problems.

And the BHPs are nice too. 1911s chambered in 9mm basically. Accurate but subject to finish problems and some just don't fit your hand right.

And the Rugers are nice value priced guns built like tanks. Like a poor man's Glock. but I've never seen anybody at IPSC or IDPA using them for serious tactical shooting. Also not standing out in the accuracy department.

When it comes down to it, if you're looking for a gun that if properly operated with deliver a bullet to POA, pick a Glock, HKP7, or a Sig. You'll just have to accept premature holster wear on the later two.
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:11 PM   #12
Ala Dan
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HOLY S**T!!! A SIG JAMMING????? Hell, that's almost unheard of. It had to be one of three thing's:
a) bad batch of ammo, or b) dirty weapon, or c) limp wristing the weapon? I'd bet that you could take ALL
Sig owner's on this forum, place 'em side by side on the
firing line and I'd bet that we would not have as many jam's
as you are describing!!!

Seriously, don't lose faith in an excellent product. Carry this weapon to a professional smith and see what the problem
is!!!: I'd trust my life to ANY Sig that I own, bar none.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:28 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
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I've got three commercial 9mms, a Kahr K9, a P7M13, and a Beretta 92 (straight 92, made in Italy).

I also have a Polish Radom Vis 35, made under Nazi German supervision.

Of the 3 commercial guns, I honestly cannot remember the last failure I had with them, and I'm being perfectly honest when I say that in the last 2 years I have between 500-1000 rounds through each of them. I would bet that I actually haven't had a SINGLE failure in any of the 3.

The Radom has been problematic, as I think the extractor is starting to give out.
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:42 PM   #14
Laxidasical
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I must agree with my fellow Ruger P95 lover denfoote. He pretty much summed it up!!! I have never once wondered if it was going to go bang...and it has NEVER disappointed me!!!
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Old December 5, 2000, 05:45 PM   #15
Laxidasical
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I will disagree in one respect though...I find my Ruger P95 quite attractive!!!
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Old December 5, 2000, 06:04 PM   #16
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CZ-75- Great 9mm and still comes with high cap mags.
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Old December 5, 2000, 06:08 PM   #17
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"Reliability thy name is Ruger."

I either own or have owned a half dozen nines. Walthers, CZs, Sigs, Astras, Smith & Wessons, and Rugers.

Hands down, no argument whatsoever winner in this category is the Ruger.

Cover it in mud, feed it cheap ammo, drop it, shake it, limp wrist it, call it names, whatever... and the gun keeps shooting.

They're also ugly as sin.

But they shoot EVERY time regardless of race, creed, color, sex, nationality, or sobriety. Every time. Take it to the bank.
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Old December 5, 2000, 06:09 PM   #18
mvdemarco
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I have two, that's right I said "two" Ruger P95's and my bet is that they will fire ANY round available without a problem. Great gun!
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Old December 5, 2000, 06:11 PM   #19
Russell92
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i'd rank any Glock 9mm and the Beretta 92FS tied as the #1 most reliable 9mm pistols made. i have a Glock 19 and a Beretta 92FS both with around 3000+ rounds thru them. neither has had a single problem with reliability and i trust them both more than any other pistol. also they both are very accurate and another plus for berettas is that 15rd mags are still reletively cheap.
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Old December 5, 2000, 07:03 PM   #20
hksigwalther
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SIG jam

The only one time I got a SIG P226 to jam that wasn't ammo related was when I didn't oil the rails before shooting.

I went about one and a half magfuls before it choked.
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Old December 5, 2000, 07:38 PM   #21
J. Parker
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JoeSF; More than one "expert" has stated that the Beretta mod 92 design is the most reliable pistol ever made. That said, from my own experience I would say the Beretta mod 92. I've put probably a couple of thousands of rounds through a Ruger P-95, again, ZERO malfunctions. I owned a H&K USP 9mm full size for a short time (maybe 500rds) again zero malfunctions AND I believe it was the most accurate 9mm I've ever owned. The only 9mm Sig I've owned was a P-225, once again for a brief period, 300rds or so with zero malfunctions. In theory, the 9mm bullet/shape is the most reliable calibre of all the auto pistol calibre's. I think you would be hard pressed to find an unreliable 9mm pistol. In closing, IMHO, for reliability AND value there's no better pistol than the Ruger P-95. Just my thoughts, J. Parker
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Old December 5, 2000, 07:48 PM   #22
s_lew
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I have 4 SIG's with thousands of rounds through and have never had a single jam. Something I can not say with any other brand that I've own other than Beretta's or Glock 9mm's.

Not to say that a damaged mag, bad ammo, or a broken part can't cause problems in any gun, however...

SIGs do require at least some level of lubrication on the rails, other than that, using good ammo and good mags, one shouldn't see those types of problems, short of something going out of whack on the gun.

I've own a wide range of makes of guns over the years and I think it's safe to say that any mechanical device can potentially go south on you... I've had problems with most makes at one time or another (except for SIG, so far...), some minor, some not so minor.

If we are going by averages, I'd say for out-of-the-box reliability in 9mm, from what I've personally owned: Glock 17, 19; Beretta 92; and SIG's are tops.

For longevity, I'd also rank Glock, Beretta, then SIG, in that order. Berettas beat SIG's, if the locking block is swapped out after 15K-20K. That takes the brunt of the wear and tear and is easily replaceable. Whereas, the SIG frames take the brunt of the recoil impact and if/when they wear out, they're worn out. Although I hear SIG is pretty good about replacing any of their frames that may develop stress fractures/cracks from age...

That said, I've had various out-of-the-box cycling problems with non-9mm Glocks, all fixed under warrantly. I even bought a 92 Brigadier 9mm that had a very loose rear sight, also fixed under warranty. (Drifted off way to the right in the middle of a match. Was wondering why I suddenly was having such a hard time hitting the poppers... <g>)

So, I wouldn't condemn an entire make/line based on one problem child...

My Glocks just keep going and going. Between Berettas and SIGs, I prefer the DA/SA trigger on the SIG's. The newer ones have a lighter DA pull and overall the trigger pull is smoother and the break is crisper, on average, than your basic Beretta. I do like the Beretta's reliability and consider it a better value than the pricier SIGs.

So, my suggestion is to check out the top rated brands, pick the trigger system, grip, safety sytems that best suits your needs. Factor in how many rounds you anticipate putting through it, testfire, if you can, then decide...






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Old December 5, 2000, 09:36 PM   #23
branrot
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Beretta 92. Period.
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Old December 5, 2000, 10:29 PM   #24
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'rot's right. Beretta.

2nd - Glock M17.

That's the end of the list.
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Old December 5, 2000, 10:49 PM   #25
GregM
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I was issued a Smith & Wesson 5906 several months ago and have just shot the crap out of it. I just did my night qualification with it tonight and scored a 92 out of 100 with it. I'm working on 3k rounds without a single malfunction. The gun is built like a tank and in my opinion less recoil that na Beretta 92 and a Sig p225(I own Both). Its not the most accurate, but VERY reliable for me!

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