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Old August 20, 1999, 08:33 AM   #1
Joe Mama
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I recently purchased a HK USP in 9 mm and I am impressed with the accuracy, trigger, weight and attention to detail. So much so, I am considering the USP in .45 cal., and retiring my Mk IV Model 80 1911 to target duty only.

Both pistols are the full size models, although in my hand, the "9" is a compact.

Opinions on either pistol are welcomed.

Joe
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Old August 20, 1999, 09:04 AM   #2
SAWBONES
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Your "handle" is what used to be heard called out frequently in the halls of my Chicago junior high school in 1963-4.
After shooting the H&K USPs rather extensively, I've been sufficiently impressed that I've ordered 2 of them (in Variants 2 & 10, since I'm left-handed) in 45acp. They ARE rather "blocky", and given the gun's size, I'd rather have the larger caliber, since in 9mm, the weapon isn't "size-efficient". (The concept refers to the size of the gun being no bigger than necessary to permit efficient use, including controlability, accuracy-precision, and concealability, for the size of the cartridge fired.) Smaller, more size-efficient guns are available in 9mm, including H&K's own excellent P7M8, though in .40S&W and 45acp, the USP Compacts really appeal. I've found them to be quite acceptably accurate and precise, in spite of the fact that (like Glocks but unlike SigSauers) the barrel-to-slide fit is a tad loose. If you have large hands, the standard size USP may be better for you, but I'd recommend shooting both sizes in all 3 calibers (9mm, .40S&W, 45acp), if you haven't already done so. (.357Sig is also available, but only in the Compact version, for some reason.) The bigger versions are nice, too (Mark 23, Tactical, Expert), but obviously not for CCW. Good luck.

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Old August 20, 1999, 10:41 AM   #3
Ulfilas
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Thumbs-up on your choice for a shootin'-iron, Joe. It's one of the finest-crafted pistols available.

Granted, it is a bit blocky, and the full size version is not as popular with most of the CCW crowd, but I'd say the look exudes more of an "I mean business" message, especially if it's in one of the larger calibers.

jth

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Old August 20, 1999, 01:07 PM   #4
CMOS
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I've had an HK USP Compact 9mm for about 2 years now and, as of now, it is still the favorite of all my pistols. I have *never* had a FTF and it is the easiest pistol to clean that I own.

Yep, a bit blocky (surely they could slim it down just a little...) so when I "carry" it is in eigher a fanny pack or a pancake holster on my hip (under a vest, shirt or jacket).

When I purchased it, I was down to 2 chioces - the USP and a Sig-Sauer. The USP won out because of the ergonomic placement of the slide release and safety/decocker **for my hand**.

Kinda eyeballing that .357SIG USP Compact...

CMOS
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Old August 20, 1999, 03:00 PM   #5
Ala Dan
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Greetings Joe; the H&K line is second only to the Sig-Sauer line of quality firearms.
I currently own the full size H&K USP in
.45 Auto. It's the "plain jane" version;
but it is remarkably accurate. I have also
on hand the Sig-Sauer P220A to compare it
with. Both are superb as far as fit and
finish go; neither one has caused me any
problems. For CCW carry when wearing loose
fitting clothing; the P220A would definitely
win out. But both are "shooter's".
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Old August 20, 1999, 04:40 PM   #6
Rich Jone
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I have a USP45 full size, (2) 229's, (1) 220, & (1) 226. I bought the USP based upon the glowing reviews from all the gun magazines. However, after taking it to the range, I was slightly disappointed.

Reason: In single action mode, after removing all the "slack" (play) from the trigger, there is a noticeable amount of "creep" before the trigger breaks & the gun fires. For a $600.00 gun, this is not acceptable. I would expect this type of "creep" on a Lorcin or a Jennings, not on an H&K. None of my SIGs have any type of "creep". This also is not an isolated incident since my friend's USP45 & USP40 compact also have creep.

Now step back & look at a typical SIG & a typical USP. The frame of a SIG is manufactured from a solid billet of aluminum machined out from numerous painstaking steps on an numerical controlled milling machine. When you examine the USP 45, it is nothing more than a hunk of INJECTION MOLD plastic (aka, polymer, which sounds more expensive) with four chunks of metal impregnated into the frame to serve as the guides for the slide. And to think that H&K can justify asking $600.00 for a typical USP is phenominal! It probably costs less than $25.00 to make that frame. The full retail cost of the USP should be in the neighborhood of $300.00 to $400.00, not $600.00. What's worst is that the compact USP's cost even more (up to $675.00). That's like going down to the Chevy dealer & paying $30,000.00 for a Cavalier Z24 or paying $25,000.00 for a Camaro Z28. That's why I laugh a people who pay "more" (cash)for "less" (gun). BTW, I still felt cheated after paying $475.00 for my used USP45 full size.

Sorry for upsetting anyone; just the facts!!!
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Old August 20, 1999, 05:03 PM   #7
nebob
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rick, try burying your sigs in dirt for a couple of days and see how your frames are doing then.
apples and oranges.
i love sigs too,fine accuracy,fit and detail.
but my h&k usp45 is designed to take a beating and still work well.
it never jams, you can shoot as hot as you want ammo in it, the frame takes the wear and tear of use.
i have 1911s,sigs,and s&ws.
when i come back from target practice there is always some new small mar or something.
i come back from practice with my h&k or a glock and no scratches or scrapes.
thats why they are a little pricey.
you really get what you pay for in the gun hobby!
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Old August 20, 1999, 05:29 PM   #8
Rich Jone
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Nebob:
Let's ask fellow members of the firing line?
How many of you bury your guns in the dirt?
HELLO???
I agree that H&K does handle hot loads (+P+) well, but how many guys go to the range to shoot +P+ all day long. Do you recharge your nitrous bottle in your hot rod every day or do you even have nitrous? By the way, nitrous & +P+ loads do wear out a car's engine or a gun faster (respectively).
The point of what I was concluding to was that on a H&K, you are paying much more for the name. H&K's investment into the product is substantially less than SIG's investment into their product!!!
Nebob, also, check the creep in your trigger of the H&k & compare it with your SIG.
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Old August 20, 1999, 05:41 PM   #9
Joe Mama
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SawBones: Yeah, I thought that was my name when I was playing on the court in school, I heard it so often.

All:
I know the gun is a little blocky, but that is it's appeal to me, as I can palm a basketball. CCW is not as much of a concern as I have more real estate, so to speak, to distribute it on. Most compacts and many so-called full-sized pistols leave my "pinky" hanging. Until I tried the USP, I thought I would have to go the Para-Ordinance route to get a gun that fit my hand out-of-the-box.

BTW: I am considering TWO more now as I can get a great deal on a Variant 3 (decock only)and 7 (DAO). The 7 being for my better half (less to think about with DAO).

Any experience with these variants?

Joe
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Old August 20, 1999, 06:05 PM   #10
Ala Dan
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Rich and Nebob; I ain't fixing to bury my
Sig's in the dirt; or my H&K for that matter.
I also own four Sig's: P220A, P226, P228 and
the P229. I shoot quite regularly and I don't
see all those smudges, bumps, and brusie's
that was in the thread. My Sig's were all
bought NIB; my H&K USP was purchased used.
Also, the H&K does not have the "creep"
in the trigger that you speak of. Maybe, I
got a good one; but I probably paid too
much ($525.00) for a used one, UH?


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Old August 20, 1999, 06:45 PM   #11
Greg Bell
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Guys,

A handy chart:

Sig P v. HK Usp

Reliability \
Accuracy \
Durability \
Grip \
Finish \
Fit and feel \
Trigger \



[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited August 20, 1999).]
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Old August 20, 1999, 07:39 PM   #12
George Hill
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LOL, Greg - you got TOO much time on your hands...

Go SHOOT something!

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"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
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Old August 20, 1999, 08:42 PM   #13
spark@onestopknifeshop.com
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When I bought my USP, I went to the gun store with a completely open mind.

I told myself:

I want a firearm that I can use perfectly, even though I'm left handed.

I wanted it to be tough.

I wanted it to be comforable in my hand.

I did my research, and shot a few at the range. The USP won, hands down. This was out of a field of: Glock 17, Sig 220/6, Berretta 92 (but, I already new that they would probably lose from my time in the military), and 1911's.

It has everything I want, and nothing I don't. Shoots better than any other pistol I own, and I'm not afraid it will break on me either, unlike some of the others I've already broken.

Spark

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Old August 20, 1999, 11:19 PM   #14
Greg Bell
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Kodiac! (aka George Hill).

Hey! At least I don't moderate this mess!!



[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited August 21, 1999).]
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Old August 21, 1999, 12:37 AM   #15
Sambonator
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HK USP? Very nice gun! In fact, I have one on loan from my brother-in-law. Its a full-size 9mm, but not quite as big and heavy as the Beretta 92. It still has two of the pre-ban 15rnd magazine, which makes my Walther P99's 10 round mags seem a tad impotent.
Lotta firepower in a reliable, light-weight gun. What more can you ask?!


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Old August 21, 1999, 05:18 AM   #16
Red Bull
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HK USP .45? One thing comes to mind: .45 Super!

Buy that USP .45 and shoot the hottest defensive load on the market, the .45 Super. A .45 moving at velocities beyond the 10mm's highest ranges, all at very low chamber pressures.
Not only does the USP handle the .45 Super out of the box all day long, but it tames that beast. The USP really has very little felt recoil compared to a 1911.

The HK USP is hella accurate, totally reliable, and extremely durable. Before you bad-mouth the USP, be sure to see the video on it and read up on the torture testing it has undergone. The Sig is a nice "sports gun", but it could never hand with the combat toughness of the USP. Oh, and let's not even talk about rust...

The USP is the pistol I would choose when the chips are down.
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Old August 21, 1999, 08:59 AM   #17
Sid Post
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Just a few comments in general......

Just because a pistol has a polyner frame does not mean it is an inferior product. Sig frames do crack when you shoot them a lot. Why spend the money on the tooling for the same end result?

HK may not spend as much purchasing tooling for the USP frames and, they should be a little cheaper to mass produce. That means little to the average consumer except that the purchase price is not raised with unnecessary machining operations.

HK spends a lot of time and money on the R&D to get their products right. You may not like them but, if they build a product that meets your needs, you can rest assured it will work well for a long time.

Sid
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Old August 21, 1999, 10:28 AM   #18
George Hill
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When my Jar-Head brother shot a USP for the first time - it was a USP 9.

He was flabbergasted about how little recoil he felt. And as a result, how he was able to rapid fire at multiple targets and stay accurate...

After he was done with 500 rounds he stood there looking at the USP... then up at me...

I just grinned at him, "This is why I love HK."

Now, he does too.

Greg - "touche"

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Old August 21, 1999, 10:40 AM   #19
Joe Mama
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Thanks for all the input. Unfortunately, my NEW gun has some problems. See my post in the Legal forum or here "Used HK USP" etc.

Joe
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Old August 22, 1999, 05:46 PM   #20
Kilroy
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I have fired a USP40 and USP45, also owned a USP45. OK guns, but nothing I desire to own or use. The first USPs had night sights veiwable from either end, but that was later remedied (upgraded?). I had seen the USP lose a magazine now and then, but did not pay it any great amount of attention. Later, when learning this was a persistent problem, made some queries and learned that others had seen it. Seems that the lever size and spring type contributed to the occasional dropping of the USP magazine during a drawing and presentation of the gun. Some users pointed out that H&K upgraded parts and springs to reduce the liklihood of this taking place. An associate who uses an open top tactical holster with his USP45, is somewhat concerned about the opening in the left side of the hammer cutout. As he carries his USP45 cocked and locked, he said that dirt has been making it's way inside, due to this hole in the cutout. While an H&K rep told me that the safety lever should not decock, if going from cocked and locked to fire by depressing the safety, I still see it happen in training venues. These pistols, like any other, are limited by their design and manufacture, the support of the company and the ability of the end user.
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Old August 22, 1999, 05:55 PM   #21
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Since we are on the subject of HK USP .45, I recently saw a "MATCH" variant for sale, much less than wholesale. As far as I can tell, it has a longer, weighted, barrel. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this gun?
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Old August 23, 1999, 08:08 AM   #22
Ulfilas
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RE: USP Var 7

No experience there--sorry! Mine is a Var 1 with the spurred hammer instead of the bobbed (gives me more than one option for cocking/decocking). I could get used to a DA-only action pistol if I HAD to, but I still don't like the extra pull. People with DA-only preferences seem like strange birds to me


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Old August 23, 1999, 04:33 PM   #23
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I see shooters are taking both sides on the quality of USPs. I am pro-USP, since I first bought a USP40C and followed it up a year later with the USP45. It has a nearly identical manual of arms as a 1911(that's why I chose it over the Sigs). And though it is true that the single action has some creep, I can still hit with it to my satisfaction, so I don't see the problem. The DA first shot takes some practice since it is a heavy long stroke. I say go for it.

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Old August 23, 1999, 07:18 PM   #24
Antonio
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The HK USP is my favorite pistol. I currently have four of them (9F, .40C, .40F, .45F). The full size and compact models both feel great in my hand. I briefly owned a Sig 229 but although it was very accurate I sold it because I liked the control placement on the USP better because it's similar to a 1911. I also owned a Kimber Polymer that was a dream to shoot but I sold that one too. The only reason I sold these great pistols was because USPs worked better for me. I've also shot Glocks, Berettas, Browning HiPowers, Springfields and Colt 1911s. All were very nice but the USP has a great combination of quality, accuracy and dependability that works well for me. Easy maintenance and nice accessories too.
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Old August 26, 1999, 11:59 AM   #25
BrokenArrow
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USPs are wundebar!

They are not perfect; nothing is.

HK customer service is prickly. You may need it. Know of plenty USPs that had problems (jams, premature rust, broken parts, etc).

If it works for you and you like it, damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. It's as good as any, better than most.

BTW, I'm back to Glocks in 40/357! Who knows how long I'll stay?

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