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Old January 16, 2002, 02:44 AM   #1
Modifiedbrowning
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Ar-180 vs Ar15

I was considering buying armalite Ar-180 or Ar-180b(polymer lower). Was just wondering if anyone has any input on the Ar-180 versus the Ar-15. Also, if the Ar-15 is the better choice which company should I purchase from. Lastly, is it better or cheaper to buy the parts separately or should I get a complete gun?
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Old January 16, 2002, 08:06 AM   #2
Kharn
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If you dont mind waiting a few months, and want to save cash, get the AR180B (there are no current production AR180s, only the B model, and all of the B's have the polymer lower). If you dont mind spending $200 extra, want a more durable (forged aluminum rather than stampings, and also a chrome plated bore instead of just chrome-impregnanted steel) rifle and want it now, get the AR-15.

If you buy the stripped lower from your dealer, and then purchase a rifle kit, you will save some cash. A Bushmaster lower will run you about $175 at most gunshops in the US, with other brands costing less. A Bushmaster kit will run about $600 from Gun Smoke (www.gunsmokeinc.com) and will have everything you need to finish a stripped receiver into a working firearm. You could go with other brands, Olympic Arms (www.olyarms.com) has worked well for me (they sell kits for $450, but no chromed bore), but others believe you need one of the ABCs for a reliable gun (Armalite, Bushmaster, or Colt). Only buy a rifle kit that comes with the upper and barrel assembled until you get more experience with the AR15 and learn how to barrel a rifle yourself.

You might want to visit www.ar15.com for some advice from more experienced AR-15/AR-180 shooters.

My opinion: Buy both. Have your dealer order an AR180B and a stripped AR15 lower, and then buy the AR15 kit in a few months. You can never have too many semiautomatics in .223 that use Ar15 magazines.

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Old January 16, 2002, 08:36 AM   #3
leej
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Let me tell you a true story. Many years ago before the communist ban on original AR's I tried to talk a friend into buying an original Colt carbine cal. .223 with collapsible stock. No, "he said" I want a lot of custom features so I will build it myself. Flash forward about 17 years. The colt is now worth big bucks and the parts gun he put together is not worth much more than what he paid for it 17 years ago. And guess what! the gun never did work quite right for him because of all the off brand junk parts he put into it.

Moral of story. If you can afford it buy a big name brand weapon that comes with a factory guarentee so that if you have any problems with it you will not have to try and jury rig it yourself in an attempt to make it work. Also the value will continue to escalate in the coming years instead of depreciating as most parts guns are apt to do.
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Old January 16, 2002, 09:13 AM   #4
Joe Demko
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According to what I have read, the AR-18 design was originally put together to allow lower-tech nations to manufacture an AR-type rifle. It also supposedly corrected some faults in the AR-15 design. It never really took off because AR-15/M-16 rifles were readily available and it was cheap enough to simply buy them rather than tool up to manufacture your own AR-18. As for the new AR-180B, I want one but I am going to hold off for a while. I want to give them a chance to discover and correct any bugs. Next year, or the year after, there will be one in my safe. Not because I think it is necessarily better than anything else (I own two AR's) but because I think it is kewl in its own right.
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Old January 16, 2002, 10:48 AM   #5
Yanus
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The current British assault rifle, made by Sterling, is based on the AR-18, which was also made by Sterling. Granted, the bull pup has a lot of improvements over the AR-18, but the lineage is obvious. The biggest improvement of the AR-18 over the AR-15 is the elimination of the direct gas system. The AR-18 uses a gas piston similar to the FN-FAL.
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Old January 16, 2002, 11:11 AM   #6
Southern Raider
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Quote:
The biggest improvement of the AR-18 over the AR-15 is the elimination of the direct gas system.
While I agree that this is an improvement, it is not clear if Stoner saw it as such. The M16 gas system was patented and the rights went to Colt with the rest of the design. The M16 gas system couldn't be used on the AR18 without paying royalties.

Quote:
The AR-18 uses a gas piston similar to the FN-FAL.
Actually, it is almost nearly identical to the Russian Tokarev rifle.

FWIW, the Bushmaster M17S bullpup uses the same basic action as the AR18.
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Old January 16, 2002, 11:27 AM   #7
blackamos
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http://www.cruffler.com/review-January-02.html This is what you need to read.
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Old January 16, 2002, 04:41 PM   #8
Yanus
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I had one of the Sterling AR-180's back in the early 80's. The magazines were hard to find and expensive, even then. I ended up selling mine. This newer version seems to be a definite step forward. I especially like the idea of using AR-15 mags. I hope it is a success in the market place.
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