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Old January 3, 2002, 11:03 AM   #1
CMichael
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A little vent

I just wanted to vent a little.

One thing I have seen at the gun club is that people are talking about the great deals they are getting on shotguns paying about $400.

Now I realize that this probably is a good deal. However, people seem to be talking about dropping this money so easily.

I thought paying over $200 for a shotgun was a bite.

Michael
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Old January 3, 2002, 12:52 PM   #2
Dave McC
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Wait until someone starts talking about picking up another Purdey, Mike. When I hear about buying something that costs more than my truck, I get tremors and pains in the vicinity of my wallet.

Revenge is sweet,tho. About the time I outshoot someone on a clays course using Frankenstein, my parts built 870, I mention that all in all I paid about the same as they did for a coupla choke tubes. The look on their faces, priceless!!...
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Old January 3, 2002, 03:29 PM   #3
CMichael
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Thanks Dave I needed that.

Assuming the same barrel length, gauge, choke, does it make a difference how expensive the gun is?

Michael
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Old January 3, 2002, 05:27 PM   #4
Ledbetter
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Walmart bargain 1100

There was a thread here a while back on Remington 1100 synthetic stock shotguns on sale at Walmart for around $330. 28" barrel and came with one choke. I bought one and used it to shoot my first 25 straight clays in trap.

This bargain is long gone, but there are others out there to be had. It's not the cost of the gun that matters.
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Old January 3, 2002, 05:57 PM   #5
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Beware the gent with the bib overalls and a gun that most folks wouldn't use for a jack handle. Good chance he is trollin for bucks.

Sam
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Old January 3, 2002, 09:21 PM   #6
K80Geoff
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In defense of expensive guns!

Your grandchildren will inherit an heirloom that they will prize and shoot better than you did

They will probably throw the 870 in their trunk and let it rust
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Old January 3, 2002, 09:29 PM   #7
Dan Morris
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Sam, I fell for that overall bit a buncha years ago.LOL. After
my mouth overloaded me, jent shuffeled back to truck and drug out a M12 Black Diamond and proceeded to clean run.LOL
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Old January 3, 2002, 11:06 PM   #8
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Not to be an elitist, coz I aint, but $400 is about the minimum that I would expect to pay for a new shotgun. Actually I am drooling over a SKB 385 SxS for about $1900. I could probably afford it after saving up for about 2 years and no other firearms purchases

I get the feeling that you are more dismayed by the willingness to drop a few C notes on a luxury item than the price itself. At the club I went to in Buffalo, NY there were guys who owned $10,000+ shotguns and talked about 'trading up' all the time. To them (older gentlemen) shooting was a way of life. On Monday they shot at Club A, Tuesday Club B, Wednsday at Club C... Some of those guys would shoot about 500 shells a week. They spent more in a week of shooting than I made in month! The gents you speak of may be cut of the same cloth, but less extravagent.

Have some fun windowshopping, check out

www.griffinhowe.com

www.hallowellco.com

www.capeoutfitters.com

www.jcdevine.com

www.krieghoff.com

Have fun, don't let the 'snobs' get your goat. Chances are, they may well have donated more to the NRA than you or I make in a year.
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Old January 3, 2002, 11:18 PM   #9
RCGJR100
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Good Grief,


Yuppie gun enthusiasts....Ive owned several types of firearms over the year and I treasure non of them more because of thier retail price. With proper maintiance even a lowly cheapo shotty will be wonderful airloom to you children. The people who comment about the price of their equipment IMHO are just too impressed with their money.
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Old January 3, 2002, 11:56 PM   #10
K80Geoff
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I am far from being a "Yuppie". But I get much pleasure from my expensive gun.

And I do not own it because I am impressed with my money. Because I am not wealthy, drive a clunker with almost 200,000 mi and rarely take vacations or go out to eat. (don't have any kids in college either)

I just Happen to like well made finely tuned guns, and am willing to give up things to own one. This is the USA, and we are supposedly free to pursue happiness in out own way. Mine just happens to be shooting my O/U.

So I have to put up with the "slings and Arrows" from guys who are upset because my gun costs more than theirs.

I have lots of fun watching the guys who try to put my gun down when their gas guns jam up in the middle of the shoot. Because I know the guys who carp the most about my K80 are the ones who secretly wish they had one.

BTW, It took me 3 years to pay for it. But if your are not too much of a "cheap gun snob" I'll let you shoot it

Yes guys have outshot me with junk guns, as well as 870's and Benellis. Just means they were better shots than I am.

But then I have outshot guys shooting Walther and Pardini .22 target guns with my ruger MK2. Do I wish I had a Hammerli, ....Yes I do!
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Old January 4, 2002, 12:29 AM   #11
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Like Goeff said, don't deny someone else their pleasure just because it aint yours. I used to be a cheap gun snob till I found out some of those guys gave more to protect 2nd Amendment rights than I will make in year. Like it or not, those rich SOBs were sincere about their beliefs. Let the yuppies be yuppies, as long as more yuppie shooters understand that our rights need money to be defended; then I don't care how much they spend on a gun. Just give a portion so that the kids, grandkids, and so on will RKBA!

PS: Guns are like tools. A poor tool is no bargain at any price.
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Old January 4, 2002, 06:24 AM   #12
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Mike, the big differences are longevity, reliability and esthetics. Good guns are made more carefully, thus cost more.Things like clean, light triggers, bbl regulation on doubles, bores of optimum profile, and better metal demand higher prices.

The nicest thing about modern shotgunning,tho, is that reasonably effective,reliable,long lived shotguns are available to the masses. A contemporary shotgunner gets better equipped for less money(Assuming adjustment for inflation) than their grandfathers/mothers did.

Great Grandpa's hardware store Crescent double or it's equivalent cost about $17. I can go out and get a decent pump for $200 or so. That $17 was two weeks pay, that $200 is a couple days worth.

And it ain't the piano, it's the pianist.

Geoff, gun snobbery runs both ways. Of the two biggest jerks I even met on a trap range, one had a Ljutic, the other a "Ranger".

All I ask of the shotgun someone else bought is that he/she shoot it safely and ethically. It's his/her money....
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Old January 4, 2002, 07:05 AM   #13
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It's the same with motorcycles-you can get from point A to point B just as well on a Suzuki as opposed to a Harley, but some would rather die than ride a rice-burner. It's not JUST getting there, but HOW you get there, for some people...
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Old January 4, 2002, 09:23 AM   #14
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Well heck guys I guess I'm regarded by some as a sort of Yuppie because I own a couple of good target guns and a good sxs for upland hunting.

A couple of points: First is that I don't brag about what I paid for my guns. Secondly, shotgunning is what I like to do and I like to do it with the best equipment that the bank manager will loan me the money for. Shooting is my best stress reliever and time at the range is better and cheaper than time on some shrink's couch.

I buy guns used most often and have spent less in total than the price of a fully-equipped bass boat and trailer. No one blinks an eye at someone putting big money down for a fishing boat, snowmobile, or ATV but spending that much on a shotgun is somehow cause for resentment.

From time to time, some guys make snide remarks about how they can "run" them with their (fill in the blank) for a damn sight less and how foolish it is to spend money on fancy equipment. On one occasion when I was shooting skeet with my sxs in preparation for the approaching bird season, another shooter on the squad sarcastically sniffed how "privileged he felt to be shooting with the gentry."

My response to this kind of BS depends on the day. On certain days I think of Clark Gable; "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn." If I'm feeling sharp, my response is more like Val Kilmer in Tombstone -- "Say when!" After the skeet round, my better nature prevented me from asking the loudmouth how privileged he felt getting his butt kicked by a guy shooting a twin trigger gun that he hadn't picked up in 8 months and doing so while shooting gun down.

If I'm feeling particularly malevolent, I'll innocently suggest that for the next round the other shooter and I swap guns. I'll even throw in the shells. Now, I've bought, sold and traded a lot of different guns over the years and I've probably owned a similar model as the other shooter. He gets to experience what Dave McC mentioned, the balance, crisp triggers, smooth swing, all on a gun he's never fired before while I get reacquainted with an old friend. Well, you can guess the rest.....

It's not the gun. It's the gunner. And the targets don't respect how much money you do or don't make or whether you are shooting a gun made by Sears or Fabbri. They do however tend to get a little nervous if you are breaking about 4 or 5 thousand of their little friends each year.

Paul
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Old January 4, 2002, 09:45 AM   #15
CMichael
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I want to clarify a bit.

I am not faulting anyone for buying expensive guns. I'm sure most people worked hard for it and can spend it any way the want.

My only frustration in this is hearing people drop that much money and talk about it like it's a ticket to the movies. The frustration is that I can't afford to do that.

I certainly don't fault anyone for buying expensive guns.

I then had a question that if a shotgun is more expensive, given the same specs, will it do a better job hitting the targets?

Michael
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Old January 4, 2002, 10:09 AM   #16
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I apoligize for not making my point clearly enough. Like Cmicheal said. I dont fault or disapprove of anyone buying top notch equipment... But the Yuppie part is the fact they have to run off at the mouth about it. To those who thought I was inferring that they were Yuppies, not a single one went and said anything about the price of thier guns.
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Old January 4, 2002, 12:25 PM   #17
Dave McC
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I think we all would like to have as much money to spend on toys as some fortunate few do. I know a fly fisherman of modest means who owns a couple Leonard, Payne and Young dry fly rods. That's where his discretionary income goes, and he's happy with them. I doubt he catches any more fish than I do with my graphite rods, or the old South Bends that were Pop's and Grandpop's fly rods, but he likes doing it HIS way. And I like the idea of functional art.

It's the same thing here. If I answered all of Regis's questions, or hit the Lottery big time, I'd be getting some superb shotguns together that might include a K-gun,a 16 gauge Fox SXS, a Browning B-way, etc. But before that, both kids would get through Harvard, Stanford, etc, w/o student loans,they'd have off shore accounts, various relatives would find life a bit easier, and I'd be remembered in prayers from Harlem to Calcutta. Others' priorities may differ.

And, I regard 870s as about the cheapest top line shotgun there is. They never break down, they work well if I hold up my end, and I can mess with a bunch of them and my kids still can live inside, wear shoes, and eat 3 times daily. There's other shotguns that cost more and are prettier, but few that'll do everything my working class pumpguns do,better...

Dismounting from soapbox...
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Old January 4, 2002, 01:36 PM   #18
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Well, I was going to make a speech about me having lived long enough to get all of the major bills paid off, etc., and finally being able to afford a few of the slightly more expensive guns. That's true enough, but now I'm so used to being thrifty that I don't know if I can break the habit.

And then Dave came along with his comment about "Great Grandpa's hardware store Crescent double..." and made me realize that I'm getting older and should buy what I want while I can still enjoy them. Thanks.

Dave, a Crescent was my father's first 12ga.

John

P.S. - My mother volunteered that she'll disown me if I buy him a gun for his 80th birthday next Friday. I didn't tell her that there's a gun show this weekend.
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Old January 4, 2002, 03:04 PM   #19
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There is a shooter at my local range who most of you would consider a snob. I do because he is wealthy and likes to show it off.

One day I was squadded with him. He drove up in his customized kawasaki mule with gunracks, ammo box and cooler. Prominently displayed in the gunracks were two K80 high grade guns with lots of gold inlays and bells and whistles, as well as a Perazzi with the same decorations. He had a couple of cases of expensive imported British ammo.. As we disappeared around the bend into the woods of the Sporting Clays course he promptly dug out an old Remington 1100 and began shooting. Seems he can't shoot the K and P guns to save his life

He bought his kid along to keep and eye on the K & Ps so they wouldn't disappear.
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Old January 4, 2002, 04:00 PM   #20
Dave McC
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OK, Geoff, how he do with the 1100?(G)....

I still say it's the pianist, not the piano.
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Old January 4, 2002, 06:50 PM   #21
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Two engrazed K-guns and a Pizza shooter and he can't shoot either? Now that is an ostentatious display of wealth.

What's the point of having a gun if you're not going to shoot it?
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Old January 4, 2002, 11:18 PM   #22
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Who cares if he can shoot them, as long as he has fun! That's why I shoot. Not to win awards, or anyones admiration. I could care less as long as I have fun and do the best I can. And, I enjoy shooting enough that I want a fine machine to do it with.

I waited a long time to afford a decent gun. And I've shot every cheap piece of junk out there. I shot some pretty good. But when I got the money to do some serious buying with, you can bet your wallet I didn't buy any wal-mart specials.

Those junk guns will never be heirlooms. All they'll be is cheap antiques. Now, get a gun that has fine engraving, are solid as a rock, and has beautifully sculpted wood, and it'll be an heirloom. But it will cost ya too.

It's not how much you spend that makes you who you are. And, you have to admit, we'd all love to have a finely made Italian shotgun.
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Old January 5, 2002, 12:49 AM   #23
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Dave...IIRC not very well. Last time I saw him he had a very nicely engraved Beretta 390.

Then there is the shooter who is wealthy, but insists on shooting a basic Browning Citori. He made Master Class with it. I found out he owns three identical guns and had them all fitted with the same stocks. He can afford better but sticks with the plain jane citoris. He always chides me because I shoot my K80, told me to get a citori and shoot more. He holds the course record of 99 (out of 100). Maybe I should listen to him

It takes all kinds. You get a real education hanging around SportingClays shooters.

Like the manhattan foot doctor who likes Remington 32's, must have a dozen of them, all restored and reworked.

Or the other doctor who shoots Italian guns with barely pronouncable names who spent the better part of a 100 bird clays course educating me about the beauty of fine gold swiss watches that he collects.

Or the laborer with 6 kids and three jobs who shoots an old 1100 with fixed full choke and beats all of us.
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Old January 5, 2002, 08:03 AM   #24
Al Thompson
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Or one of my friends who does not have much money - but scrimps and saves for his small collection of top of the line firearms.

All a matter of taste.


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Old January 5, 2002, 09:43 AM   #25
Dave McC
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All in all, there's more than one road to take. As long as a shotgunner shoots safely/ethically, we have no kick coming as to what kind/make/type he/she shoots.

It's fun to tease each other about our choices, but let's keep it light.
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