The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 1, 2002, 09:27 AM   #1
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
Remington 710 - removable barrel?

I have recently reviewed Remington 710. All info I read about this rifle stated that the barrel is hydraulically pressed into receiver and permanently attached to it.

It wasn't a case on the rifle I shot. When I removed action and barrel from the stock it appeared that the barrel is loosely inserted in the receiver and could be removed. It looks that it is indexed and held in the receiver by one screw on front of magazine and bedded in the stock by another, slightly forward.

Can anyone explain this discrepancy. Is my rifle a lemon or Remington changed technology?

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 1, 2002, 02:44 PM   #2
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Halfway educated guess: If the barrel actually felt loose--that is, you could feel some motion--it's a lemon. I really doubt that Mr. Remington intended for it to be that way.

My notion of "proper" would be to have the machining precise enough so that when the receiver is heated a bit, and the barrel is chilled a bit, it's still a force-fit--which is where the hydraulic press comes in. When everything is at uniform temperature, it's pretty well stuck together...Kinda like the gear on the front of a VW Beetle crankshaft.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 1, 2002, 03:00 PM   #3
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
Actually I got receiver and barrel in two pieces. It didn't seem at all that barrel was ever pressed inside the receiver. It looked as it was just made in factory as separate unit intended to be held together only by action screws.

That's why I asked whether Remington has changed the design or technology. There are actions of other makes where barrel is loosely inserted in receiver and bolt locks in the barrel. So I just wondered - may be Remington has cut yet another corner with this "entry level" rifle.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 1, 2002, 06:05 PM   #4
Watchman
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2000
Location: ARKANSAS
Posts: 484
My kids got a 710. It shoots extremly well, in fac the killed a deer with it. After reading your post I went and got it out of the cabinet and checked the barrel. That thing is as solid as a rock. It looks to me like you ought to take it back to Remington and get a different rifle. If the barrel is a loose as you say, then there is no way you'll be able to maintain any decent groups with it.
Watchman is offline  
Old January 1, 2002, 06:29 PM   #5
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
Watchman,

If it is a case than this is an outrage. The rifle shot quite well but it was just relatively short test. How could a company like Remington ship out such lemon is beyond me.

Thanks for checking it out for me.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 1, 2002, 08:50 PM   #6
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
R.K., you got a "Monday gun".

Old auto-world joke in Detroit: You don't want a car assembled on a Monday; the guys are too hungover to do good work. You don't want a car assembled on Friday; they guys are thinking about spending their paychecks. What you want is a Wednesday car.

Hey, the human factor; quality control, five days a week.

, Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 2, 2002, 07:59 AM   #7
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
I posted the same question on Remington support board. Still waiting for replay. I wonder what they'll say.

Anyway, it seems that Mr Remington had nothing to do with the design of this rifle.

Really annoying is that most of gun magazines gave raving reviews of 710. On the other hand, most of private opinions that I read on Internet where negative.

Well, I'm writing for a gun magazine myself and I wanted to check 710 and find out who's right. I had two other rifles (European make) in the same price range. I wanted to review them together with 710 just for reference.

The other rifles, handled, looked, and shot better than 710. I can understand that if you want to cut down on manuafacturing cost the design must be Spartan. Nothing wrong in that. But that major manufacturer ships out rifles without trace of quality check (which apparently is the case here) is novelty to me.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 2, 2002, 09:46 AM   #8
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Roman, other posters here who have used the 710 have not had the problems you speak of. A couple report excellent accuracy; others, acceptable for their hunting purposes.

Mass production of an inexpensive item can easily lead to the occasional lemon--that's the whole idea behind warranties. You were unfortunate, but I imagine Remington would rather replace the rifle or make a refund or whatever instead of being sued.

Given the typical turmoil of Christmas/New Years, I think I'd recommend trying a phone call rather than email.

I dunno. I've just spent too many years around the car-sales and car-repair bidness to get too excited over lemons and come-backs. (Not that it ain't frustrating...)

Hang in there,

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 3, 2002, 05:02 PM   #9
Bogie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2000
Location: Job hunting on the road...
Posts: 3,827
The Remington 710 is designed for the guy who buys a rifle, buys a box of 20 rounds, makes sure the scope is sighted correctly (you ALWAYS do that, right?), and then shoots one at a deer at 50 yards, packs it up, and goes home. Of the course of the guy's life, the rifle may get maybe 2-300 rounds through it.
__________________
Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist.

And making the world's greatest bottle openers!
Bogie is offline  
Old January 3, 2002, 11:12 PM   #10
slick slidestop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 389
I agree with Bogie,

Although I have never shot the 710, the aesthetics and feel of the rifle leave a lot to be desired for me especially after shooting and appreciating the 700 BDL actions for a while.

But even an entry level rifle should not be as sloppy as yours sounds, make them give you another
slick slidestop is offline  
Old January 3, 2002, 11:34 PM   #11
Watchman
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2000
Location: ARKANSAS
Posts: 484
I've shot the 710 and I like it. I like it because it has good balance, the scope came from the factory right were it needed to be and the thing is danged accurate. It has an exellent out of the box trigger. It's not the prettiest rifle around but it's probably one of the best values for the money around. I own several Remington rifles. I have the standard hunting rifles, and I have some of the target rifles. I have a .308 bull barrell with a Redfield LEO scope that I am qualified to use on the Sherrifs Dept. that I'm on. I regularly shoot at 600 and 1000 yards with several of my rifles. All of my target rifles are tack drivers, Ive got 3/8 groups at 200 yards with the .308.

That being said, Ive read lots of the criticisms and the praises of the 710. Lots of the criticisim comes from people that have never shot the gun and dont like the way it looks. Some people think that if a rifle dosent cost at least 750 bucks that its a piece of junk.

Personally my expierience with the thing has been nothing but positive. For an "entry" level gun , one could do much worse. In reality, other than the gun nuts on this forum, how many rounds does the average owner put in a firearm anyway ?

If all I had was the 710, I would have no qualms about carrying into the deer woods.
Watchman is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 12:01 AM   #12
rugerfreak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2001
Posts: 819
I bought a 710 as a back-up rifle---the thing turned out to be a tackdriver---with the cheap ammo -no less. Sure its ugly and cheap--but damn--it really lays them in there.

I would send the rifle back if I were you----something is definitely wrong.
rugerfreak is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 01:23 PM   #13
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
FYI

Remington just answered my post regarding the above problem. They confirmed that barrel is permanetly attached to receiver. But they would not admit whether my rifle was faulty or not.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 01:56 PM   #14
Steven Mace
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 1999
Location: Clifton, Colorado USA
Posts: 724
Remington Repair Center - Sweden

HDF-PAULSSON AB
SVARVAREGATAN 3, BOX 525
S-301 80 HALMSTAD
011 46 35 154 400
011 46 35 148 510 FAX

Roman, above is the contact information for Remington's Repair Center located in Sweden. You might want to contact this location directly to see what they have to say about your Model 710. I too would agree there is something wrong with your rifle. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace
__________________
After today, its all historical
Steven Mace is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 02:17 PM   #15
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
Thanks Steve,

I know these people. They don't do Remington any more.

I had this rifle on loan from local importer. I sent it back before Xmas. I really don't care one way or another. I'm just concerned about writing decent review. Now I wil give some time for the importer to give me explanations. I bet they are disassembling all rifles they've got on stock right now.

Thank you all guys for help.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 03:27 PM   #16
Will Beararms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,700
710BR (Brush Rifle)

Roman:

The barrel is attached with a hydraulic press and should never be removed unless your aim it to destroy the rifle. I got one in .30-06 and the Bushnell 3-9 x 40mm objective scope that came with it was a piece of dog excrement. It would not hold zero to save my life.

Then, I put on a 4 x 32mm Bushnell scope with a circle x reticle that is actually intended for a shot gun but with the same parallax setting as a rifle and the 710 has priven to be quite accurate using Remington core-lokt 150 grain cartridges.

The 710 is now known as my "710BR" for brush and heavy timber environments.
__________________
"Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second."
-- Aron Bielski
Will Beararms is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 04:23 PM   #17
younggenious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 26, 2001
Posts: 101
i was planning on getting a 710, but changed my mind to the 700 because of barrel removal.
younggenious is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 06:07 PM   #18
leej
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2001
Posts: 94
ONe wonders why anyone would buy a 710 when you can get the econo grade Remington 700 for around the same price.

Seems as though Remington has been making some real blunders recently. They were to cheap to buy new dies when the dies that made the nylon 66 wore out so they came out with a real loser of a .22 called the viper. It had a double sear that made a decent usable trigger pull just about impossible not to mention the aesthetics of the piece. Naturally no one bought them and they went the way of the Doe-Doe Bird.

Now they have decided to bring out the 710 with a non-removeable barrel. I think that aspect alone will turn a lot of people off besides all of the plastic that is in the gun. It took people awhile to get used to synthetic stocks but I wonder if they will warm up to a rifle that has even more plastic in it than just the stock. If they do not warm up quickly to it this model it too may also prove to be a big loser for Remington.

I personally would spend my hard earned money on the 700 econo grade if I were in the market for a low priced but accurate rifle.

And of course the savvy gun owner who has been around a long time can always come up with a good but mint condition used gun that was made many years ago like the Sears F/N rifles that put most of todays guns to shame.
leej is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 06:18 PM   #19
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
Will,

I didn't aim to destroy the rifle. The barrel just fell out once I removed action from the stock.

On our market we have at least 6 models priced about the same as 710. I tested two allong with Remington. They shot better and stayed in once piece.

BTW In Sweden they ask exorbitant price for 710. Even if the barrel stayed put I wouldn't recommend it.

Roman
Attached Images
File Type: jpg remingtondelar01.jpg (18.6 KB, 112 views)
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 06:23 PM   #20
Will Beararms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,700
Excellent photo for the record. Believe me, I am trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I would not advise anyone to buy a Remington 710, they are junk.
__________________
"Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second."
-- Aron Bielski
Will Beararms is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 09:43 PM   #21
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
WBA, if it's "quite accurate" with a different scope, how is it junk? (I grant the lack of aesthetic appeal, to me...) Apparently the scope would qualify as junk, from what you said.

If the quality of the scope is poor, then the price is not a good deal for a buyer; I'd recommend against the package for that reason.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 4, 2002, 10:10 PM   #22
Will Beararms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,700
Well Art, now that you mention it, the trigger on mine is excellent and the finish is much better than the 700 ADL's i looked at the day i bought it that were already rusting in the box.

May i revise and extend my remarks?
__________________
"Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second."
-- Aron Bielski
Will Beararms is offline  
Old January 5, 2002, 05:59 AM   #23
Roman Knoll
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2001
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Posts: 95
IMO,

The whole point of buying inexpensive rifle (and some of them are accurate and can survive lot of abuse in the field) is to create economical margin for getting the best scope you can afford.

After all bad scope can ruin a million dollar rifle.

The whole idea of selling rifles in packages with cheap scopes is weird and contraproductive. If you want cheap scope you can always buy it. I rather have scope and mounts selected by myself.

"Entry level" guy may think that he's making good deal by getting the scope thrown in. But then - because of the scope - the whole rig shoots lousy. For an inexperienced fellow it may seem like screw up - a junky rifle.

Roman
Roman Knoll is offline  
Old January 5, 2002, 10:43 AM   #24
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
RK, you're exactly right. I wondered about the "package" deal when I first read of it.

Some of these "middle" grade scopes seem to vary greatly in quality, and there is no way in advance to know what you have.

As example, I have had good service from my Simmons 44 Mag which I bought in 1996 or early 1997. I've had reports in the last two years that people have had trouble with them, and the local gunstore owner says that it's quality control during 1999 and 2000.

Regardless, Remington should stand behind their product, willingly replacing anything that's less than decent quality--whether gun or scope.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 5, 2002, 12:03 PM   #25
Gewehr98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2000
Location: Token Creek, WI
Posts: 4,068
The picture speaks for itself.

Thanks for posting it, Roman. Let us know what the customer service folks at Remington finally do with it. My girlfriend was looking at one in .30-06 the other day, I told her to wait until some of the negative publicity dies down. Needless to say, the specimen she handled made me wonder how many corners were cut in production. In the meantime, I'll stay with Remington 700's and 98 Mausers...
__________________
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

Neural Misfires
Gewehr98 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13432 seconds with 8 queries