Chalk up one more for Glock!

[FALaholic]

My wife and I just finished our CCW class in NC. She just purchased a ss Beretta 9mm and used it to qualify. Unfortunately, she didnt have time to use it before the class. We soon found out that she was "limp wristing" the pistol which caused it to jam almost every time. The instructor made her use my Glock 22 instead which performed flawlessly. They may not be the prettiest handgun, but there is something to be said for its performance!

I wouldn't trade my Glock 22 for anything.

[MP-5]

A Glock which is more reliable than a Beretta? NEGITIVE!!! NO WAY!!! Try giving the Beretta a complete cleaning (which I assume you did not do out of the box) Lube is a little more critical on stainless guns usually. Get yourself a good ss lube. I believe you made an excellent choice by purchasing a Beretta.(Although I am totally shocked the Beretta malfunctioned reguardless of limp-wristing) I can also see the Beretta being more "sensitive" to limp-wristing because of the light "open slide" design. What kind of ammo? Could be a factor. Once she can overcome her limp-wristing problem, the Beretta would be a far more enjoyable gun to shoot because of the caliber and "open slide" design. Recoil would be substantially LESS, especially compared to a Glock .40! This is very important to the novice shooter!

[Tamara]

MP-5:

The Beretta's bore axis is a little higher, too, which could give it more leverage in recoil against a less-than-locked wrist.

I certainly agree that, all things being equal, the Glock and Beretta are both in a rather select group of pistols, reliability-wise. I'd wager that, in some kind of extended-fire torture test, I'd be overcome with boredom long before either was likely to jam on me.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[FALaholic]

Seeing is believing my friend. It was cleaned prior to the "range" portion of the class. More reliable? Im not one to jump on the Glock bandwagon, but the proof was in the pudding today. I must agree it is very fun to shoot as I took it a few lanes down and put about fifty + rounds through it without one hiccup. The instructor suggested the same thing (not a hot enough load...bogus). It is very accurate, and I agree it is susceptible to the novice shooter as she is. Federal Classic 115 gr was the choice of ammo today.

[BigMike]

I gotta go with MP-5 on this one. Limp wristing a Beretta 92 may cause a jam but I would look at the pistol if it were jamming this much. It may be a lemon. Nothing against Glock (I've owned 3), but the Beretta jam was a fluke. You may wanna tear it down and clean/oil it then shoot it. IMO you should have several hundred rounds through if you 1. take it to a CCW class and 2. plan on using it to defend yourself should the occasion arise.

Mike

[FALaholic]

Oh dont get me wrong Mike. This gun IMO is WAY TOO BIG for CC she just chose it for her vehicle weapon. Her carry weapon is a Lady *&*.

[ether]

I've had a 92FS that choked on lead round-nose bullets. I traded it on a new one, but I haven't had a chance to shoot any lead in the new one. My G22 has never, ever, ever choked on anything including lead semi-wadcutters (don't shoot lead in your Glock unless you intend to clean it meticulously after every session, and NEVER run a jacketed bullet through the bore to "get the lead out"). With jacketed factory ammo they're both flawless. Maybe I'm a little impractical to judge pistols on whether or not they'll eat lead bullets, but I'll always trust Glock 9mm's and .40's over Berettas. Either way, I wouldn't give up on it yet.

[This message has been edited by ether (edited October 22, 2000).]

[FALaholic]

Not at all! I love this pistol...she wont let me have it though!

[hnkg3]

Another reliability observation between the Glock and Beretta: the Glock's magazines are better. The only malfunction I've ever had with a Beretta was the slide not locking back on empty mag. The Glock I have never had a single problem with.

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The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of Patriots and tyrants alike...TJ.

[355sigfan]

MP-5

I won't dog on Beretta's because I know they are fine weapons from expierence. But the fact that Glocks don't need a thourgh cleaning to work is a huge plus. I know that Glocks will work better in harsh climates than beretta. My department used to issue Beretta 92's and for the most part they worked well. But when the temp drops below -20 they don't work so well they also are more tempermental if sand gets in their mags. My agency now uses Glock 21 and they work all the time even in -40 below and in the sand and dirt.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.

[damage]

I brought a beretta compact ss and had the exact same problem know what the solution/problem was

LUBE

Right outta the box a ss needs to be lubed I didn't think the solution was this simple I honestly thought there was a little QC problem at beretta but 2,000 rounds later not a single misfire.

I didn't have this problem with my Elite (it fired fine right outta the box) but it's not ss and that made the difference.

LUBE LUBE LUBE

OH incedently althought im a beretta fan i'd take a glock 36 over a 22 anyday



[This message has been edited by damage (edited October 23, 2000).]

[johnwill]

I'll take either, line up and hand over the Glocks and Berettas.

[jtduncan]

Beretta's are great guns especially if your facing one close range. I love the pre-1999 slide release function for BGs. He he he. LAPD wet their pants.

I wonder why Beretta is introducing some new polymer framed guns? Hhhmm. The Border Patrol must be considering some Austrian drastic plastic.

I'll take a Brigadeer though.



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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG

[Quantum Singularity]

For me, the Sig Sauer P239 is the most reliable out of the box pistol. Two of my three (G17 and G26) Glocks will fail if limp wristed. Neither Sig (239 and 228) I own has ever malfunctioned even while limpwristing intentionally (to test reliability out). My Glock 21 has perfect reliability as well; however, I still think my Sigs are more reliable in general than my Glocks. That said, I shoot my best groups with the Glocks (especially the G21 and G26)
-- they are easier to shoot faster and more accurately than the DA/SA Sigs.

[9x45]

Any semi auto pistol can limp wrist. Thats not the point. If it wasn't for factory shooter Ernest Langdon winning the IDPA Nationals, in Stock Service Pistol using a 92F, Beretta would have an extremely tough time convincing avid shooters that it is as good as, or better than, a pistol that has cranked out 175,000 rounds and still testing. Here is a demonstration that I do after a match sometimes. Take my G21, lock it open, drop it into the dirt, kick dirt into it, stomp on it, then pick it up, shake and blow, then pour my drinking water thru the whole thing, and crank out 13 rounds to dry it out. No one, except follow Glocker's, are willing to do this. It especially freaks out the 1911 guys! So what do I know? only about 45,000 rounds thru the G21's

[Quantum Singularity]

Sorry 9x45, I WOULD NOT do that to my Glock 21. I just love that gun so much I wouldn't want even a scratch on it. I know Glocks are durable and stuff, but I tend to error on the side of caution and avoid intentionally abusing a gun. You are right though...Glocks are very durable.

[racegunner]

You people have to look closer, for the answer is in front of you...
You write: "She just purchased..."
Can I assume it is new? The new recoil spring is your culprit! Run 400 rounds through it and call me in the morning.

As far as the "Glock vs. the world" ******* contest; I remember reading a post on a military forum a few years back posted by a GI armorer. He mentioned taking his Glock to the Gulf "way back" in '91. He wrote that all the other side arms stopped working in a mild dust, Berettas, Colts and even the mighty Sig...His Glock had zero problems (period)

You can find me at an IPSC range in Detroit area. I'm the guy without the plastic bag on my gun. That's because it's a Glock21.

[This message has been edited by racegunner (edited October 24, 2000).]

[FALaholic]

Hey fellas, you have to go BTT and read the rest of my posts. This Beretta is just fine because I went two stalls down and put fifty rounds or better through it without a problem. It is her weak wrist. The G-22 just compensated better.

[racegunner]

As the recoil spring breaks in it won't be as sensitive to limp wrist and she will be able to use it then.

Good Luck

[FALaholic]

Got it racegunner...and thanks. As you can tell Im fairly new to Berettas. This is our first!

[gitarmac]

I have a g19. I really like it because of the confidence factor, I know if I pull the trigger it will go bang!! I've only had one failure and it was ammo, the primer had an indention but didn't go off for some reason. I've tried to limp wrist it, and when I'm shooting for awhile I tend to get relaxed and limp, but it's never failed to go bang. My only complaint is the sights. I don't get nice tight groups. For a defence situation though it's plenty good enough.

[Tecolote]

jtduncan,

There's not a single document case of a super ninja BG taking apart a Beretta 92F in the hands of a user. If someone can work the latch on a Beretta 92F than the user must either be dead, brain dead or deserving for letting a BG get so close. Besides, with a loaded mag inserted the slide won't come off forward on a 92F.

I think Glocks are great but don't undersell the 92F. Properly cared for a 92F will take a pounding and keep on ticking.

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"Get yourself a Pistolet Makarova and lose that pricey western gadget."

[GLK19]

I tested the Beretta for my agency and in a nutshell we fired 15,000 rds of every type of 9mm ammo .

Among other things we did the following:

We froze it . We buried it in mud , sand and dirt . We submerged it in regular water and salt water.

We did 10 drop tests from 5 feet , We purposely limped wristed it ( to the point we shot it holding it with the thumb only on the back strap)

We cleaned it 3 times ( cops don't like cleaning their guns ).

All this with "O" Malfunctions .

I have shot and tested most of the major pistols and carry a glock 19/26 every day and no gun has ever matched the reliability
of the Beretta .