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Old December 3, 2001, 03:42 AM   #1
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Washington County Deputy Kills Man

The Story

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By Doug Irving, kgw.com Staff

A Washington County deputy shot and killed an apparently unarmed man who witnesses said had his hands up.

Rodney Ray Layman, a 31-year-old Beaverton man, was pronounced dead at Emanuel Hospital. Sandy James, a spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Office, did not know whether there were any weapons in Layman's truck. But investigators said he appeared to have been unarmed.

According to police, the Sheriff’s deputy tried to pull over a red Dodge pickup truck in Beaverton shortly after 10 p.m. The motorist took off, starting a short car chase that ended a few blocks later at a dead-end near the Castlewood Arms Apartments.

Witnesses said the driver of the truck, later identified as Layman, got out and put his hands up. He yelled at the deputy, then walked toward the back of the truck, the witnesses said. The deputy fired two shots, hitting Layman in the chest.
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Old December 3, 2001, 05:47 AM   #2
Fred Hansen
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Good. Maybe they should take out billboard space and TV ads. That way any other dumba$$e$ in the area will know that if you run from the cops, and endanger everyone else, that there is a good chance of going home that night in a Ziplock brand body bag. I would like to see everyone that runs from the cops shot within less than two minutes of the chase. Having innocent people killed in police vs. scumbag chases is BS. Which part of "Stop! Police!" do you reckon truckboy didn't get?

The left coast's affinity for hours long cop vs. scumbag chases is absolutely revolting. Sounds like truckboy wasn't able to process "Dead End" until it literally manifested itself with the end of his loser existence. Way to go truckboy!
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Old December 3, 2001, 10:56 AM   #3
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To jmbg29:

You sound a little too bloodthirsty. I understand that we don't want people running off everytime an officer tries to make a stop. However the use of deadly force should never be thought of in such a cavalier manner. Aside from the obvious after affects on the subject shot, you should remember the shooter will have after effects also. In this case a deputy is first going to have to deal with the emotional aspects of "post shooting trauma". Then internal affairsguys will grill him over and over with all the time in the world to comtemplate something the officer only had seconds at most to decide about. There will probably be a grand jury to decide if the officer committed a crime himself in using deadly force. Then, if he clears all of those hurdles relatively intact, he'll probably have to face the subjects family in a civil lawsuit. It's not so simple as "just shoot them".

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Old December 3, 2001, 01:07 PM   #4
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DeputyVaughn,

Yeah, I know. In the meantime someone unassociated with these high speed chases get killed just about every week in this country. Most of them in southern PRK, where with the advent of news helicopters "chases" have become "info-tainment.

Personally I can't ask a police officer to do my dirtywork for me, and then hamper their ability to do it. In the short run it could get them killed, and in the long run that gets me killed. The driver of a vehicle racing down the road is nothing more than a criminal using a 2-3 thousand pound missle as his weapon of choice. The situation should be treated as such. All the philosophical arguments in the world won't stop the after-effects of a 3,000 lb. missle t-boning a car filled with a family on their way to Grandma's house.
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"This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?"

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Old December 3, 2001, 01:39 PM   #5
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jmbg29,

In this case, "truckboy" was no longer barrelling down the road with a 3,000 pound missile. He had stopped, and if the news accounts are to be believed, he was no longer a threat to anyone, not even the sweet family on its way to Grandma's house.

But I suspect we haven't gotten the whole story. He probably yelled, "I'm getting my gun out of the back of my truck! I'm going to shoot you, mofo!" ... while heading toward the back of his truck. If that were the case, he was a threat and the shoot would be a good one.

But shooting unarmed and no-longer dangerous perpetrators is not the job of the police. The policeman's job is to haul 'em in and let the courts sort it out, no matter what the perpetrator was doing before he surrendered.

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Old December 3, 2001, 02:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Witnesses said the driver of the truck, later identified as Layman, got out and put his hands up.
So far, he's doing good. Now DON'T MOVE!
Quote:
He yelled at the deputy, then walked toward the back of the truck, the witnesses said.
Oops.
Quote:
The deputy fired two shots, hitting Layman in the chest.
Sounds like justified shooting. Any bets on how many drinks Layman had that night?
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Old December 3, 2001, 08:25 PM   #7
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I'm sorry, but when did not standing still become a capitol offense?

As stated above, if he threatened to go get a weapon, then the shoot was clearly justified, but I bristle at the notion that cops should just shoot people instead of taking any risks. Life is dangerous, tough crap guys, it doesn't give you a right to go around guns blazing.

We need more info for a proper judgement on this matter though.
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Old December 4, 2001, 01:25 AM   #8
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Lets see, The news media is never bias nor inaccurate.
They never lean to the left.
They are not pro-democrat.
They are never anti-gun.
They always report with total accuracy.
They just report the facts.


I will not pass judgement until all information is made available. If the officer was not justified in using deadly force, then he will be delt with accordingly as the public and the police community will not tolerate those type of illegal actions.
If the shooting was shown as justified, the officer will try to go on with his life, we won't hear anymore about it, and the story will be buried in the back pages instead of being a headline.
Such is the life we choose.
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Old December 4, 2001, 02:04 AM   #9
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Dangus,
I just read another post of yours on another thread involving the homeowner standing on his porch and shooting a guy who was unarmed but not standing still as he was asked to. You backed the homeowner's response. So why is it okay for the homeowner to shot an unarmed guy who is not standing still but not for a LEO to do the same thing?

And for another question. When did trespassing become a capitol offense? As you said, life is dangerous and it doesn't give you the right to go around blazing. I am not trying to be a smart a$$, I am just pointing out that you can't have it both ways, it is either okay for everybody or nobody.
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Old December 4, 2001, 06:29 AM   #10
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Lets not "jump the gun" here. Little if any of the TRUE details are known about this incident.

Before we condem anyones actions here more information would be needed. The accounts from news sorces are biased at best. Lets not start another "cop bashing" on what little information has been posted about this shooting.

If you got an axe to grind, do it in the privacy of your own mind.

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Old December 4, 2001, 07:53 AM   #11
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driver shot

I don't think enough information is given to decide if the LEO was justified or not. I don't like to see the cops shooting innocent people either but I have to admit it seems to me that they haven't been shooting enough of of the bad ones.
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Old December 4, 2001, 08:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
I just read another post of yours on another thread involving the homeowner standing on his porch and shooting a guy who was unarmed but not standing still as he was asked to. You backed the homeowner's response. So why is it okay for the homeowner to shot an unarmed guy who is not standing still but not for a LEO to do the same thing?
The LEO did not have a family upstairs, nor was he in his own home or on his own property faced with a potential assailant who was approaching him in what appeared to be intent to at least break into his house, if not hurt him as well.

The VERY important thing to note here is that the intruder was approaching him, NOT walking away. Also, the intruder was coming at him in the dark, this adds an element of confusion to the matter.

A police officer has a lot of equipment and backup at his disposal that makes a non-lethal takedown more practical anyway, yet in a situation like this, if the reporting is correct, he shot a man in the back for moving. He did not attempt to subdue him in a non-lethal manner or was assaulted in any way. He simply shot him for moving away from him. IF the reporting is correct, I consider that manslaughter at the very least, but considering the adrenaline factor of just finishing a car chase, I would settle for firing the officer. That is assuming the reporting is totally correct, which often is not the case.

Quote:
And for another question. When did trespassing become a capitol offense? As you said, life is dangerous and it doesn't give you the right to go around blazing.
Trespassing in and of itself is not a capitol offense, but a person rightfully does not have to retreat in their own home, and in my opinion, their own property. If they tell you to leave and threaten you with harm, and you approach them, you are commiting assault, and in some situations, assualt necessitates a lethal response. If an officer has a gun out and demands I freeze, and I approach him, I am endangering him, and thus commiting assault, and thus he has a right to stop me with whatever force he deems necessary. With backup right there with him, I do not agree that lethal force should be the first response, but an officer alone should not be required to take any chances in such a situation.
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Old December 5, 2001, 03:46 AM   #13
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KILL THEM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!!!!

Just kidding!!! C'mon guys, take a breath and relax.

BTW, he was NOT shot in the back! He was shot in the chest! Not only does it say so, but cops don't pull you over from the front. If he was pulled over, and walking toward the bed of the truck, he was walking in the direction of the officer.
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Old December 5, 2001, 06:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
I would like to see everyone that runs from the cops shot within less than two minutes of the chase.
So you don't believe that punishment is the exclusive domain of the courts?
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Old December 5, 2001, 10:16 AM   #15
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I think the key fact is that we don't know exactly what happened. This might seem like my mantra on these threads, and it is.

Mike
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Old December 7, 2001, 12:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
BTW, he was NOT shot in the back! He was shot in the chest! Not only does it say so, but cops don't pull you over from the front. If he was pulled over, and walking toward the bed of the truck, he was walking in the direction of the officer.
Good point. I guess my next question would be as to how close he was to the officer whe the officer fired. We may never know for sure though.
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Old December 7, 2001, 01:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
So you don't believe that punishment is the exclusive domain of the courts?
It is not about punishment. Everyone including illegal aliens know what the the blinking lights and sirens mean. A person who is merely driving drunk, is not necessarily doing so with willful intent. Once the lights go on and the speed gets out of control, in my opinion the driver is willfully endangering all other drivers, pedestrians, and people in their homes along whatever road he is flying down.

Now I know a lot of people would rather that the cop pull some sort of "Walker Texas Ranger" karate move to subdue the predators among us. Personally I don't expect the police to need to be Chuck Norris to do their job. What part of pull over and don't f***king move don't people get? When somebody with a gun and a badge tells me anything, that is what I do, period. All other responses increase one's chances of ending up dead exponentially. I submit truckboy as exhibit A.

Stupid should hurt, phenomenally stupid should be fatal.
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Old December 7, 2001, 10:30 AM   #18
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I love when people say we don't have all the facts, but don't take 10 minutes to search the web to see if there are more facts available. If you click the link in the first post, you will see that the story has been updated. The dead man's family is planning a wrongful death suit against the sherrif's office.

Also, here's another news article from the Oregonian:
Quote:
A Beaverton-area man who was fatally shot Saturday night by a Washington County Sheriff's deputy was identified Sunday as Rodney Ray Layman, 31.

Layman was shot twice in the chest, according to the Oregon State Medical Examiner's office.

He was shot during a 10 p.m. traffic stop in the parking lot of the Castlewood Arms Apartments, 13555 S.W. Jenkins Road, authorities said. He was taken to Legacy Emanuel Hospital & Health Center, where he was pronounced dead.

The deputy reportedly had tried to make a traffic stop of a red 1995 Dodge pickup truck near Southwest Brightwood Street and Jenkins Road. The motorist did not stop, but ended at a dead-end in the apartment complex, said Sandy James, the sheriff's information officer.

James said that there was some kind of altercation during which Layman got out of the truck and approached the patrol car. Layman, she said, was unarmed.

No details were released of what prompted the deputy, who has not been identified, to shoot.

Layman has an extensive criminal history in both Oregon and Washington, according to prison and court records, including assaults, robbery and multiple felony convictions for driving while his license was suspended or revoked.

At the time of the shooting, Layman's driver's license was suspended, authorities said, and he was carrying an Oregon-issued state identification card. He was the subject of a felony no-bail warrant from the state of Washington on a possession of drugs charge.

The deputy is on administrative leave pending the investigation, which still is under way.

-- John Painter Jr.
http://www.oregonlive.com/metronorth...1291573388.xml
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