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View Poll Results: Which breed of dog would make the worst civilian protection dog?
Collie 27 47.37%
German Shepherd 11 19.30%
Rotweiller 13 22.81%
Doberman Pincher 6 10.53%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 16, 2002, 06:33 PM   #51
ProStreetChevelle
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yes, you did help!

Thanks Boris for the reply. I agree with you about the liability in some dogs and their training and/or temperment. I don't want a dog that has a higher risk of doing something damaging, but I also realize that a lot of that risk can be minimized by proper training and breeding and care.

What we're interested in is a family dog that will act as an alarm, one that's big enough to be a deterrent but also not so big that it's a liability or one that my wife couldn't control or hold back on a leash.

German Shepards keep coming up but I've never been fond of them due to their long hair, and they are a little bigger than what I would prefer. I would like something around 25-30 pounds, short hair, good with kids, but is an alert-type dog. Thanks for any suggestions!
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Old April 17, 2002, 11:39 AM   #52
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Boris,

Good stuff. Thanks!

For the most part, I agree with your comments:

"And finally, don't believe the tale that a dog will naturally protect you. No breed will naturally protect."

How familiar are you with the Fila Brasilero? They seem to have a good reputation for "natural protection."
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Old April 17, 2002, 12:57 PM   #53
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We have a Dobie/German Shepard mix that is a great dog. We got him at the humane society almost five years ago when our son was 3. He has always been gentle and friendly with chldren and guests. He also sounds and looks ferocious when need be. I tend to prefer mixed breeds (especially Dobie/German Shepard mix) as opposed to pure breeds, I think in general it makes for a better rounded and more stable dog - IMO.
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Old April 17, 2002, 01:08 PM   #54
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I like my dogs big. the bigger the better

in some cases. current couch potato is a smallish(for the breed) Saint Bernard. she definately does get most folks attention. And she is protective of the home.
Boris,
I have been doing research on the giant breeds for a number of years. Two of the most protective and guard like are of the mastriff breed. These dogs are downright dangerous to non family members And this is with no training but basic obedience
These dogs are the Filia Brassero of brazil and the Neopolitian
Mastiff from italy. These animals while from different backgrounds actually have similar traits. and are of a similar size (150 - over 200LB) Have you worked with either of these breed? I am personally intrested in the Neo and want one in the future. I realize that will require special needs to make sure the dog has limited acess to strangers when I am not around including family not living with me. (These dogs are extremely dangerous to strangers trepassing they can and do bite. - with no protectionguard training whatso ever) they are ausome companians and home guards through. like anything else great power required great responsibility.
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Old April 18, 2002, 05:23 AM   #55
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Large breeds such as the varied Mastiff breeds are intimidating in appearance. We have been involved with the training of several of these breeds. But not with great success. Honestly, many people missread what they call protectiveness. People often believe that a dog who barks, growls, snaps at or bites is protective or is a good candidate for a protection dog. But not necessarrily so. Self preservation is the primary instinct in the animal kingdom. Or the human kingdom for that matter. To expect an dog to override that instinct and to put himself in the way of a threat is expecting a lot. Humans do not do it NATURALLY. Humans have the ability to reason and assess a situation before reaction, allowing us to overide the self presevation instinct. Dogs do not. What most people call protectiveness is a dog who perceives a threat and reacts in a way of defense. The level of confidence determines the level of threat that the dog sees in a situation. It could be something as simple as what a PERSON may sees as nonthreatening, like standing motionless, staring at the dog. ( a threatening posture in the animal world) Or a child shyly and slowly reaching out to touch the dog. Again slow motions sometimes seem as a threat or challenge to a dog. If the confidence level is low anything out of context may trigger a defensive reation. Such as the dog in a new environment with different surroundings. Someone new comes over to visit, who the dog sees as a possible threat because they do not know them. ETC. Protectiveness implies that the dog can distinguish a threat and without concern for it's own safety react to protect another. Not saying that it does not happen, but not often. More often it is simply missinterpreted defensiveness. But defensiveness is not a bad thing. In training a actual protection dog you use the dogs defense drive and his prey drive to stimulate him to bite. Conditioning him through situational training to gain control and to teach him correct reation to the situation. In training you are able to direct or channel prey or defense drives to build confidence and make a more balanced dog. In our experience a lot of the Mastiff breeds simply do not have the desired prey drive to carry them through a threatening situation and to bulid their confidence. But they do have defense drive. And defense drive coupled with lack of confidence creates a "sharp dog". (Meaning quick to bite.) Remember the level of confidence determines the level of threat the dog perceives. Well time to go to work. Maybe more later.
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Old April 18, 2002, 06:07 AM   #56
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"I would like something around 25-30 pounds, short hair, good with kids, but is an alert-type dog. Thanks for any suggestions!"

Three words, English...Staffordshire...terrier. Awesome dog.

For those of you who like the big dogs, check this site out - www.moloss.com
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Old April 18, 2002, 06:22 AM   #57
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Staffs are in the 30-40 lb range, kind of like an English predecessor to the pitbull, smaller, blockier and much more managable. Uncommon in this country but incredible dogs. I'd own one if there weren't already so many adoptable pitbulls who need a good home. If your not afraid of the name, pits make a great pet as well albeit almost twice the size of an English Staff.
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Old April 18, 2002, 07:32 AM   #58
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Neo's

Boris,
I understand what you are saying. But I don't beleave it applies to these animals at least not totally. Neo's are desended from the origional roman war dogs and susposedly the bloodlines have been kept pure all these years in italy. They have been (and still are) used as estate guards. They are large, fearless, and protective. Now weither they are protective so much of their owner(I personally beleave so but who am I) or just his property (their home) I can't say for sure. They apprently are one family dogs and highly distrustful of strangers.
In no way are they suitable for police work. far too powerful and dangerours for street use. I don't know personally how much you know about this breed in particular (as opposed to the mastiff breeds in general) but feel you may be surprised if you researched them in depth. (and the Filia as well) I would like to hear your comments after some indepth research on these dogs if you have the time.
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Old April 18, 2002, 03:13 PM   #59
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JMLV. Yes I have experience with Neopolitian Mastiffs. You said that you have been doing research on the breed? I assume by that , that you do not personally have experience with the breed? Just been researching them? Don't believe the hype. You will always hear great things about a breed from proponents of the breed. They are obviously not my breed choice but I work many different breeds. I speak from experience. If a dog works, great, if it does'nt, I chalk it up to experience. I'm not a dog racist.(for the lack of a better term) If the dog works, We'll work it. And there are exceptions to all breeds.
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Old April 18, 2002, 04:38 PM   #60
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GSDs

My German Shepherd is smart but totally non-aggressive- I keep telling him it's embarassing when he lets the neighbor's Chihuahua beat him up, but he does it anyway!

My question is, is there anything that can be done to reduce the amount of shedding they do? My wife is getting pretty fed up with the hair all over the house. I think it's partly because of the change of seasons, but it's getting out of hand. I do feed him high quality food. Any other suggestions?

TIA.
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Old April 18, 2002, 05:07 PM   #61
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MJN. Not much you can do about the German Shedder. High quality food is good, but even then sometimes the dog's system does not utilize the food to the fullest potential. You can try different brands of high quality food. But the change in the diet can upset the dog's system. Or you can try Prozyme. It is an additive of enzymes that aid in digestion. Helping the dog's system to break down and use the food better. Also do not over groom the dog. Over shampooing can irritate and cause more shedding. The dog's natural oils are best for it's hair. It may not smell as good, but it is better. Also over brushing the dog loosens hair. When it is shedding season, brushing the dog daily is ok. But after the coat is blown, cut back on the brushing. With the German Shepherd, Shedding is just part of the package. I'm used to my dog hair carpeted floor.
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Old April 18, 2002, 10:47 PM   #62
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You could shave him.
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Old April 18, 2002, 11:04 PM   #63
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Boris: I would like to thank you for all the good dog information. This is a subject that always interests me, keep it coming.
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Old April 19, 2002, 10:24 AM   #64
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You are correct sir

My research has been mostly of the reading variety. The only one I have seen in person was a 3 month old pup. He was standoffish for a puppy through. Not currently being in the position to give one a home I never felt it would be nice to both the relatively few breederd of these on the east coast. I thank you for the input. I have a lot to think about. I may just stick with my saints for a while. At least the very size of them scares most evil doers away
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Old April 19, 2002, 11:03 AM   #65
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Warm baths and daily brushings seem to cut down on shedding.

I have two northern Spitz-type breeds - I have learned to live with lots of fur.

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Old April 19, 2002, 03:17 PM   #66
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jmlv. Now don't get me wrong. Neo's can make nice dogs. And there are some exceptional ones out there. But the breed as a whole generally does not make the cut as actual protection trained dog material. But hey it is getting that way with all good working breeds. Once the general public takes interest in a certain breed the quality goes down. Dogs are bred for bucks, not quality. Breeding 2 dogs together because they happen to be the same breed, by people who have no interest in working qualities or capabilities or temperment. "Dog has AKC papers, so Dawg dangit, they must be good lines. I'll sell em in da paper for $200." So when it comes to dogs, (as with most everything)education is the key. Know what you want, what you are looking at and buyer beware. When you want a dog for a certain purpose educate yourself on the purpose, not necessarilly the breed. For protection go to trainers( Many). Not to breeders of the breed your interested in. By observing training and the different breeds you will be able to better determine what breed suits your needs. If you go to a breeder of your desired breed, they will tell you what you want to here. Not necessarilly what is actual.
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Old April 19, 2002, 06:19 PM   #67
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Boris, in addition to thanking you for good professional advice, I would like to thank you for helping me with a couple concepts that I have heard about but never really understood. Mainly the difference between prey drive and defensive drive. In my very limited experience with my own Rottweiler, he didn't have the nerve to bite the sleeve with a man in the bite suit. I really didn't understand why until reading your posts. He looked mean, and could act aggressive, as you say, when on a leash etc. but would not bite the sleeve.
Again, thank you for using your knowlege as a professional in this field to answer the question asked. I did ask for further information, but I see you have some very good links in one of your previous posts.

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Old April 19, 2002, 09:44 PM   #68
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444, I love talking dogs. And sometimes I have problems communicating exactly what is in my head. But if you want some really interesting reading, check out www.leerburg.com .Mr Frawley has a pretty straight forward approach to the topics and although I don't always agree with his views, I do enjoy his style.
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Old April 20, 2002, 01:23 AM   #69
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Boris, I saw that link on your previous post and have spent considerable time reading the information on that web site.
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Old April 21, 2002, 09:39 PM   #70
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Mixed breeds are the best. Fewer mental and health problems. Still, the collie is very loyal. My folks once had a collie/golden retreiver mix that was a great animal. I remember long ago some neighbor kids that had a collie. That dog was fiercely loyal to the kids in that family. I was impressed and respectful.
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Old April 21, 2002, 10:35 PM   #71
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I can kill any dog, a small double edged dagger , or any short barreled handgun,and a thrust to eyes and throat.dogs bark and may attack BGs, but their more likely to be fed by intruders with
drugs, dogs are useless for home defense, a trip wire that sets off a alarm, don't feed them, or pick up poop, no shots, no liabiality. dogs are a pain!
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Old April 22, 2002, 12:36 AM   #72
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"dogs are useless for home defense, a trip wire that sets off a alarm, don't feed them, or pick up poop, no shots, no liabiality. dogs are a pain!"

"¡los perros son inútiles para la defensa casera, un alambre del viaje que fije de un alarmar, no los alimentan, o tome el poop, ningunos tiros, ningunos perros de liabiality. son un dolor!"

...nope, still doesn't make sense.
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:00 PM   #73
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allright a trip wire that opens a cage with 5000 trained rats?
and what ever you said ? back at you!
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Old April 23, 2002, 11:50 AM   #74
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Zot,

First off my dogs will not eat except in their bowls and when fed by myself or my family. They have been trained to do so. Second yes you may kill dog # 1 its a hazard that we dog owners must deal with. unfortunelately for you (not persoanlly mind you but prospective BG) is that while you are doing this dog # 2 and # 3 are tearing you a new one. Since dog #1 is a 125 Saint Bernard with enought fur to stop a short knife and dog # 2 is a protecrtive pitbull{with a pronounced tendency to go for the coujones which I encourage!} (dog # 3 has yet to be replaced currently deciesd - She was a Rotty) you just might have your hands full. Leaving off that, by this time I will have the slug loaded mossberg out and about. Your only option at this point is surrender or die. Your choice.
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Old April 28, 2002, 11:17 AM   #75
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You guys overwhelm me with the unbelievable response to my thread. I really appreciate all of the input.

Please keep it coming.

- Anthony
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