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Old November 19, 2001, 01:38 PM   #1
SkySlash
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Questioning the meaning of the Texas laws regarding switchblades...

I realize this post isn't gun related, but it has to do with combining a knife with a CHL so it seems on topic enough to pass. Obviously moderator discretion applies and I understand and submit to any decision made that disagrees with my own.

I started a thread a few days ago about this great gift my wife is getting me, but now I need some help in deciding if I should just get the non-auto version or go with a different model altogether.

I have put a Benchmade 9100 Auto Stryker (ComboEdge™ / BT2™ Black Teflon Coating on layaway, but now after extremely in depth research, I fear I may be wasting my money.



It appears that this knife fits under the description given by state law of a switchblade. I sent the following email to the state Attorney General's office and to the Texas DPS for an opinion but so far I haven't been able to get one.

Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawson, Ashton
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:19 AM
To: 'john.cornyn@oag.state.tx.us'
Cc: 'cac@oag.state.tx.us'
Subject: Question regarding Texas Penal Code and "switchblade knives" combined with a Concealed Handgun License

I am in the process of acquiring a Texas Concealed Handgun License and I have a few questions regarding "illegal knives" and "switchblade knives" as defined by Texas Penal Code Section 46.01. I do not currently own a switchblade knife, however, I had been considering purchasing a knife that seems to fit into that category and that brought this question to mind.

Texas Penal Code Section 46.02 and 46.03, as I understand them, state that it is illegal to knowingly possess or transport a "firearm", "illegal knife", "club", or "prohibited weapon" (as defined by Section 46.01) or a weapon listed in Section 46.05(a). Section 46.01 gives a separate definition for "illegal knife" and "switchblade knife" and gives the impression that the state sees these as two different classifications of knife type. It appears that in legal terms, a "switchblade knife" is illegal under the code, but it is not defined as an "illegal knife" by definition.

Section 46.15(6) states that Section 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to the holder of a Concealed Handgun License if the holder is carrying both the license and a handgun of the type that the license allows. Being exempt from the regulations of Texas Penal Code Section 46.02 as a CHL holder, as I understand it, means that it becomes legal to knowingly possess or transport what Section 46.01 defines as an "illegal knife." However, as I noted previously, the language in Section 46.01 regarding what classifies as an "illegal knife" and what classifies a "switchblade knife" are different, and appears to consider the knives to fit under two completely different classifications. Section 46.05(a) classifies a "switchblade knife" as defined in Section 46.01 to be a "prohibited weapon. Section 46.05 also states that a "person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (a-5) "a switchblade knife."

Section 46.05(a) appears to rule out the ability to legally carry a "switchblade knife" if you have a CHL because it is does not fit the legal definition of an "illegal knife" given in Section 46.01. Section 46.02 only prohibits the carrying of an "illegal knife" and because Section 46.15(6) only exempts the license holder from the regulations of Section(s) 46.02 and 46.03, it appears that a "switchblade knife" remains a prohibited weapon because it carries a separate definition than does an "illegal knife."

Finally, now that I've laid out the law as I understand it, we get to my actual question.

Is it illegal for a Concealed Handgun License holder to possess or transport a "switchblade knife" even though Section 46.02 specifically exempts the CHL holder from the provision forbidding the possession or transport of an "illegal knife?" In a Texas court of law, it appears that the court sees that it is illegal to carry a "switchblade knife," because the state see a specific difference between a "switchblade knife" and an "illegal knife?" Am I correct in that line of reasoning, or does in fact a "switchblade knife" become legal to carry based on the Section 46.15(6) exemption from carrying an "illegal knife" under Section 46.02?

Thank you for considering my question.
Anybody else live in Texas and have any familiarity with this?

I'm between rock and a hard place right now and can't decide what to do.

-SS
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Old November 19, 2001, 01:45 PM   #2
Tamara
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Hmmm...

Here in TN, we are a "collector's" state regarding automatic knives. It is legal to buy them and legal to own them, but illegal to carry them unless you are active duty military or LEO.
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:13 PM   #3
Marko Kloos
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Of course, everybody adheres to that law in Tennessee.
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:28 PM   #4
SkySlash
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If I did carry it, I'm not too worried about getting prosecuted or arrested because I have no prior civil or criminal record, and as a CHL holder it should be obvious to any LEO that I'm a responsible enough citizen to safely carry a knife.

If the LEO did not feel that way and arrested me for possession of a Prohibited Weapon, I am fairly sure that a judge would give me at worst, probation or deffered adjudication due to the fact that I also hold a CHL and have zero priors.

The problem with that, however, is that deferred adjudication or probation in lieu of a Class A misdemeanor means that not only do I get a criminal history, I lose my CHL for a minimum of 5 years.

I'm not really concerned with what any LEO thinks, rather I am concerned with what Texas prosecutors think as they are the demigods of fate and an arrest I can stomach, but not prosecution.

I will not risk losing my CHL just for the benefit of carrying an auto-knife. If I can confirm that it is legal to carry the knife, I'd definitely rather have the auto model than the manual.

It justs seems utterly stupid to me that the state would issue me a license to carry a firearm at my waist but they would restrict me from carrying a 3" knife because it auto-opens.

-SS
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:35 PM   #5
RenegadeX
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I think you have misread 46.15(6). It does not say "does not apply to a CHL" as you state. It says those licensed under Article 4413(29ee) are the ones it does not apply to. I do not know what 4413(29ee) is (probably security guards), but it is not CHL. CHL'ers are licensed under SubChapter H, Chapter 411, Goverment Code. So your whole premise of the law is mistaken.

Short answer: A CHL does not give you the right to carry an illegal knive.
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:45 PM   #6
SkySlash
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Very astute observation on your part, however, when coupled with the below statement it is clear that it does in fact refer to CHL holders:

Quote:
Article 4413 (29ee), Revised Civil Statutes was codified by Acts 1997, 75th Legislature, S.B. 898 and may now be found in Chapter 411, Government Code. Amendments to the statute were not included in the codification, however, so references to the amendments will still be cited as Article 4413 (29ee) throughout this book.
The bigger picture is always neccesary to make a final conclusion.

Source

-SS
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:54 PM   #7
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Well I am stumped. I know they use to sell switchblade knives up until a few years ago, and there was no change in the law, just a change in the AG interpretation.

Yes, it is silly that a cheap 3 inch switchblade is illegal, but a professional quality 5.5 inch survival knife is not, never mind a CHL with a firearm.
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Old November 19, 2001, 02:56 PM   #8
Dennis
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I re-certified as a Texas CHL Instructor on November 14, 2001. This question arose in class with the legal representative of TX DPS (Dept of Public Safety, our "state troopers").

The young lady came unglued when the student pressed the question and fairly yelled at him that CHL is a Concealed HANDGUN license! (Stress was hers!)

She went on to explain that the CHL extends only to handguns covered by the license, i.e. SA=semi-auto and NSA=non-semi-auto).

She put a rather large exclamation point on it!

If you want real irony, even Bowie knives are illegal to have on or about the person. Jest don't seem raht, do it!
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Old November 19, 2001, 03:19 PM   #9
SkySlash
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The funny part about that Dennis, is that if you read the statutes above that I quoted, the State Trooper was full of sh*t and outright lied to the student. I'll post them here for everyone to see. Unfortunately, it will take three posts because of the length.

Quote:
Texas PC §46.01. Definitions

In this Chapter:
(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:
(A) blackjack;
(B) nightstick;
(C) mace;
(D) tomahawk.

(2) "Explosive weapon" means any explosive or incendiary bomb, grenade, rocket, or mine, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury, death, or substantial property damage, or for the principal purpose of causing such a loud report as to cause undue public alarm or terror, and includes a device designed, made, or adapted for delivery or shooting an explosive weapon.

(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an

explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.

(4) "Firearm silencer" means any device designed, made, or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.

(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.
(8) "Knuckles" means any instrument that consists of finger rings or guards made of a hard substance and that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with a fist enclosed in the knuckles.
(9) "Machine gun" means any firearm that is capable of shooting more than two shots automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle if, as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and that:
(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or
(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.
(12) "Armor-piercing ammunition" means handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers.
(13) "Hoax bomb" means a device that:
(A) reasonably appears to be an explosive or incendiary device; or
(B) by its design causes alarm or reaction of any type by an official of a public safety agency or a volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies.
(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.
(15) "Racetrack" has the meaning assigned that term by the Texas Racing Act (Article 179e, Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes).
(16) "Zip gun" means a device or combination of devices that was not originally a firearm and is adapted to expel a projectile through a smooth-bore or rifled-bore barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance.
Quote:
Texas PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
Quote:
Texas PC §46.03. Places Weapons Prohibited

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) in any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack; or
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.
(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.
(d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as:
(1) a member of the armed forces or national guard;
(2) a guard employed by a penal institution; or
(3) a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies if:
(A) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(B) the firearm or club is in plain view; or
(4)**(deleted by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318.)
(5) a security officer who holds a personal protection authorization under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes).
(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor checked all firearms as baggage in accordance with federal or state law or regulations before entering a secured area.
(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:
(1) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(2) the firearm or club is in plain view.
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Old November 19, 2001, 03:20 PM   #10
SkySlash
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Quote:
Texas PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes) and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
Quote:
Texas PC §46.05. Prohibited Weapons

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the National Firearms Act, as amended.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's conduct:
(1) was incidental to dealing with a switchblade knife, springblade knife, or short-barrel firearm solely as an antique or curio; or
(2) was incidental to dealing with armor-piercing ammunition solely for the purpose of making the ammunition available to an organization, agency, or institution listed in Subsection (b).
(e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree unless it is committed under Subsection (a)(5) or (a)(6), in which event, it is a Class A misdemeanor.
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Old November 19, 2001, 03:21 PM   #11
Bogie
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FWIW, my CRKT Crawford Kasper folder is darn near as fast as an automatic knife, and would be perfectly legal... A lot cheaper too...
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Old November 19, 2001, 03:22 PM   #12
SkySlash
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Quote:
Texas PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.

(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(1) peace officers and neither section prohibits a peace officer from carrying a weapon in this state, regardless of whether the officer is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon;
(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) in compliance with policies and procedures adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;
(3) community supervision and corrections department officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051, Government Code; or
(4) a judge or justice of the supreme court, the court of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a criminal district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory county court, a justice court, or a municipal court who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
[inconsistent amendments to the same provision.]
(1)**[as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261 §28, last legis. act: 06-01-97 (and therefore, probably effective.]
is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(1)**[as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221, last legis. act: 05-31-97 (and therefore, probably NOT effective.]
is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal institution who is performing a security function;
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);
(3) is traveling;
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes); or
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.
(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section 431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a place of duty.
(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony. person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.
In that last bit, it states that anyone who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun, while they have the license and the appropriate type of handgun on them is not restricted under Texas Penal Code 46.02 or 46.03. There are no other statutes in Texas state law that prohibit the carrying of an "illegal knife" as defined by Section 46.01 other than Section 46.02. As a result, the law clearly states that as a CHL holder, the statute prohibiting the carry of an illegal knife does not apply to you.

That's my biggest concern about law enforcement. I appreciate the job they do and have no interest in making there job any more difficult than it already is. The one thing that does **** me off is examples such as yours where the "Law Enforcement Officer" doesn't even know the laws he/she is supposed to enforce.

How safe does that make you feel as a citizen? It worries me...am I going to get severly inconvenienced because I cross the path of a cop who doesn't know the law he is "enforcing?"

That is a major concern of mine!

-SS
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Old November 19, 2001, 05:09 PM   #13
RenegadeX
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I know what you mean SkySlash. The Texas law is full of these loopholes (for example, a Judge with a CHL is exempt from 46.03, but not 30.06!). My CHL class had two CHL Instructors, both LEOs, and on at least 2 questions from students, they were dead wrong. It is very frustrating, and very scary.
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Old November 19, 2001, 07:01 PM   #14
slick slidestop
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That would be illegal to carry, not to own in Texas. I know, it's silly to allow you to buy something you cannot carry. But that's the law here.
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Old November 19, 2001, 07:19 PM   #15
Monkeyleg
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Tamara, does TN law require that you be a resident of the state to purchase "automatic" knives? The kit knives that were sold nationally a few years back weren't up to the standards of the switchblades from Italy that I used to see in the 60's. Having a quality mother of pearl-gripped stilletto as a letter opener would make quite an impression when clients visit.
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Old November 19, 2001, 07:58 PM   #16
LawDog
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You are mixing up two of the statutes, Skyslash.

A switchblade (or my beloved butterfly knife, or a gravity knife) is not an illegal knife, and is not covered by 46.02 Unlawful Carry of a Weapon.

A switchblade is in the prohibited weapon law, and as such, is covered under 46.05 Prohibited Weapons.

Illegal knives are only:
  • Knives with blades longer than 5 and one-half inches
  • Throwing knives
  • Double edged knives
  • Swords
  • Spears.

Switchblades do not fall under the Illegal Knife law.

Illegal knives can be carried under certain situations, listed under the Non-applicability statute.

The Non-Applicability staute does not apply to Prohibited Weapons, thus there are no listed circumstances or situations where the carry of a Prohibited Weapon is lawful.

Let me say again: Illegal Knives and Prohibited Weapons are two entirely separate and different things in the State of Texas.

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Old November 19, 2001, 10:14 PM   #17
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I think SkySlash understands this. But is the other part correct - that a CHL can legally carry an illegal knife?
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Old November 19, 2001, 10:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Is it illegal for a Concealed Handgun License holder to possess or transport a "switchblade knife" even though Section 46.02 specifically exempts the CHL holder from the provision forbidding the possession or transport of an "illegal knife?"
Yes. A CHL applies only to the handgun part of 46.02 Unlawful Carry of a Weapon, and switchblades are not defined as 'illegal knives'.

Quote:
In a Texas court of law, it appears that the court sees that it is illegal to carry a "switchblade knife," because the state see a specific difference between a "switchblade knife" and an "illegal knife?" Am I correct in that line of reasoning, or does in fact a "switchblade knife" become legal to carry based on the Section 46.15(6) exemption from carrying an "illegal knife" under Section 46.02?
You are correct. The State of Texas specifically lists switchblades as 'prohibited weapons' instead of 'illegal knives'.

46.15 applies only to 46.02 and 46.03 -- unfortunately switchblade knives fall under 46.05.

Quote:
But is the other part correct - that a CHL can legally carry an illegal knife?
No. CHLs apply to the handgun part of 46.02 only.

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Old November 19, 2001, 10:31 PM   #19
MatthewM
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You will get mis-interpretations of the law from LEO very often. A better source is a gun store, but again, misinformation. A major knife store MIGHT give you pretty good advice. Not likely worth paying an attorney. I would print out all the law and make a one page letter with references and ask for a written ruling. A friendly court will stick by you with the written ruling.
(Not a "dig", just that LEOs are not lawyers and don't know every law & learn from other non lawyers)


An aside,
I live in Calif where everything is prohibited...

I'm carrying a Kershaw Ken Orion "Black Out" automatic knive that is NOT a switchblade. Even under the rules they revised this summer.

I carry it inside my back pocket right next to my wallet and it adds NO discomfort.

ps: There are two diff guys on EBAY who have ebay stores and sell knives at wholesale.

I am also carrying a Kershaw "chive" in my front pocket for actual use. It is tiny with the clip removed. It's also even more automatic and I think that is why they make it so small as a switchblade is legal here if under 1.5" blade.

Any price under $60 and $30 is great for my two knives.
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Old November 20, 2001, 12:39 AM   #20
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I'm still trying to figure out why a TEXAN can't carry a tomahawk any more!
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Old November 20, 2001, 01:21 AM   #21
DAVID NANCARROW
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In the end, it all depends upon the LEO as to whether you are going to be harassed. My last job was as an account consultant for a burglar alarm company in Dallas. One of my duties was to meet with the Dallas false alarm unit and clients who, either through stupidity or mechanical malfunction were causing false alarms and police/fire dispatch. I commented to one of the Big D officers that we now had a reciprocal agreement with Oklahoma as to concealed carry. He stated to me that he did not care-if he stopped an okie with the correct documents or not, if a firearm was found, he would put the person under arrest. I commented that ignorance of the law was no excuse, and defiance of the law was inexcusable, and hoped his days as an as***** were numbered. All this before you get to see what a prosecutor is going to do!
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Old November 20, 2001, 01:26 AM   #22
2kiddad
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I certainly can't comment on the legality of carrying an automatic or switchblade knife, because I don't know.

What I can add to this discussion is this. Some time ago, I bought a 9" Italian, damascus steel switchblade at a Dallas Gun Show, from a dealer from Houston, with a uniformed Dallas cop standing right next to me. He even commented to me what a nice knife it was! I wasn't hassled, questioned or stopped. After the purchase, he went his way and I went mine.

It's my understanding that it isn't illegal to OWN an automatic knife, but it is illegal to have one in your possesion, i.e., to be carrying it. As a CHL holder in Texas, I personally wouldn't risk carrying one at any time. There are enough legal knives that can be opened almost as quickly as an automatic, out there, that the risk just isn't worth it.
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Old November 20, 2001, 09:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
No. CHLs apply to the handgun part of 46.02 only.
I don't think that is correct. It does not state that only part of the statute is non-applicable, it states the whole statute is non-applicable. I don't see how a court could interpret a law to mean something that it doesn't say. If they did, they'd have a huge open door problem with the whole law book.

I talked to a Captain in the Dallas Police Department yesterday afternoon and he told me without a doubt that LEO and the court see an illegal knife and a switchblade as two different things. He basically said that unless you have an LEO, military, or Federal ID, that you will go to jail and be charged with a Class A misdemeanor if you have a switchblade on you. On certain property, possession is a third degree felony.

I think I'll be getting the non-auto model after all.

-SS
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Old November 20, 2001, 10:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
I don't think that is correct. It does not state that only part of the statute is non-applicable, it states the whole statute is non-applicable.
ARe you referring to paragraph six of 46.15?

It's highlighted above, but I'll repost it and we can look at in depth:
Quote:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
Okay, Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;...

It's the two highlighted parts taken together that restrict the Non-Applicability to handguns only.

Hope that helps.

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Old November 20, 2001, 11:14 AM   #25
SkySlash
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I read that to say something different.

Quote:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
I'm going to re-write this as what I see it saying.

(b) Section 46.02 in its entirety, does not apply in any way to a person who: (6) is currently carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the actual type the person is currently carrying;

In other words. If you are carrying a gun and a license, and the gun is the type that is stated on the license you are carrying, the Statutes that restricted you previously in Section 46.02 do not apply, so far as you have the gun of the license type(SA or Revolver), and the license is also on your person in addition to any illegal knife or club as noted in Section 46.02 and as defined by Section 46.01.

If you look around other parts of Section 46.15, it lists specific parts of Section 46.02 that do apply to certain roles. Good examples of this are Subsection(s) c, d, and e which state specific parts of Section 46.02 that still apply to those roles.

Because the Statute clearly defines certain parts of Section 46.02 that are applicable to certain roles, yet it does not specifically state any exemptions to Section 46.02 for a CHL holder, it seems clear to me that the law states that if you have your gun, and your license, you are not bound by Section 46.02 of the Penal Code in any way.

Because of that, the 3 types of weapon listed in 46.02, a firearm, club, or illegal knife become legal for you to carry. You are still restricted from carrying any prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05, including a "switchblade knife," but in the terms the Statute uses, and because of the framework of that particular Statute, it clearly means to me that a CHL holder is exempted from Section 46.02 completely while carrying a gun and a license of that gun type.

I don't plan to carry an illegal knife, so I really don't care either way, but that is ultimately what I read that particular Statute to say.

-SS
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