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Old November 20, 2001, 12:57 AM   #26
J. Parker
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Stay off huntin' land during hunting season? Really now. Out west that can encomposs literally thousands of square miles. 444; You're suggesting I take up a hunters cause? Sorry, but if you all want ATV's banned from your hunting range you'll have to do it yourself.
Why would I limit myself even more than I already am? ATV'ers and off-roaders are constantly fighting for every little bit of public land that the powers-to-be grant our poor souls. I'm not about to loose any more.
Actually, I don't think this is as big a problem as we're making it out to be. But I'll tell you one thing for sure....I can't prove it but I know I've been "scoped" by hunters.....If I EVER catch a hunter scoping me they'll be hell to pay....
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Old November 20, 2001, 01:24 AM   #27
444
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No, I don't suggest you take up any cause, that is something you dont' seem to get. I do expect you to take other people into consideration. That doesn't involve the government, it doesn't involve anyone but you.

Actually, I don't think this is as big a problem as we're making it out to be. But I'll tell you one thing for sure....I can't prove it but I know I've been "scoped" by hunters.....If I EVER catch a hunter scoping me they'll be hell to pay....

I can tell by your anwsers that you don't think it is a problem, and you are right; it isn't a problem for you. You are causing the problem for someone else. If you think you were "scoped" by a hunter then obviously you were riding close enough to him that you knew he was there and didn't care what he thought about it as long as you were doing what you wanted.
By the way, "scoping" someone is totally irresponsible and is the height of being unsafe; however, if you are being scoped, it is way to late to make somebody pay.
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Old November 20, 2001, 01:43 AM   #28
J. Parker
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444; What do you want me to do? Quit heading for the woods when deer season starts? Fine, I'll stay home. It's probably safer anyway.
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Old November 20, 2001, 02:07 AM   #29
MatthewM
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JParker,
Thanks for stepping up to the plate for the abuse.

Being out in the woods and not having the perfect experience is a minor problem and not worth hating people who choose to use the public woods differently. Leaving trash WOULD be a problem.

I go water skiing and cringe every time I pass by a guy fishing. But what can I do? He should move up to a river area and avoid me. I don't care for the habits of the jet skiers and keep an extra eye out for them, but am careful not to feel any animosity as they have as much right to the lake as I do.

This anti mentality is the same as the one that got all the deserts in Calif closed to off road vehicles. What could be more worthless than a desert! Now many lakes here are being closed to jet skis. I don't have one but am upset over those putting such laws in place.

Many roads in Calif & Nevada are being completely closed to ALL vehicles. How would you guys like to hike 80 miles for your deer? Try packing that one out!

How about someone posting the list here:
I didn't hunt so I didn't stand up for the hunter.
I don't ride a motorcycle so I didn't stand up against the helmet laws.
I don't......
Why won't anyone stand up for me?
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Old November 20, 2001, 12:54 PM   #30
Art Eatman
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Lotsa times I've run across situations where I had a "right" to do something--but I chose another course of action out of consideration for others.

If I'm walking quietly along a trail, and see a couple engaged in some heavy making-out, I have a right to continue on, disturbing their "moment". I believe it's far more courteous to go around them, unknown to them as to my passage--or to go back and wait a while...How have I been hurt by having consideration for others?

I have a "right" to drive fast along a dirt road. If I see a jogger or bicyclist on that road, I slow down to minimize the dust of my passing. How have I been hurt?

I've not owned an ATV, but I've ridden back country on a motorcycle. If I'm out purely for recreation, it strikes me that it's more courteous to avoid hunting country, during the hunting season. How does that decision hurt me?

If I use an ATV to reach my own area to hunt, isn't it just courtesy to ride at less than full-throttle, lest I disturb some other hunter? How has my effort at courtesy hurt me?

Art
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Old November 20, 2001, 04:25 PM   #31
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Wait a minute. I thought ATVs and PWCs had two throttle positions - idle and wide open

Is it true that mufflers are an expensive option and that's why so few have them?

Most of my experience is with Personal Water Craft: We troll for fish and the motorized water bugs drive through the lines and yell things like "Go faster so we can jump the wake!" Must be the same fools that surf right next to the fishing piers.

I'll spare you the stories of fishermen anchoring their boats in our decoys, but our measured response is "Y'all duck now when the birds set their wings to land."

John
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Old November 20, 2001, 09:15 PM   #32
Erik
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Two yahoos on ATVs ruined this year's elk hunt for me.

I had tracked a big bull ofor a couple of hours. I know it was big because of the tracks, which others in my hunting party confirmed as being as big as they'd ever seen. They were the types who would know.

Anyway, I'm stalking along, when suddenly the sound of ATVs fills the valley. Pretty bad, but not as bad as what follows...

The yahoos stop about a hundred yards or so away and start shouting back and forth. Shouting! I hear the crash of something large about fifty yards further along in the direction I've been heading. I move forward and the only tracks evident are the ones I was following all morning. My bull is gone.

Grrrr.
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Old November 20, 2001, 09:56 PM   #33
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Worthless deserts.....

......Altho' I now reside in the Ozarks of Arkansas, I used to live in Fernley, Nevada. I spent many days walking in the desert .....and many nights callin' coyotes and foxes. I am sure 444 can say the same, the desert is far from useless. You can scarcely notice such a thing without using your feet and noticing all the small things that would be a mere blur while astride a steel steed. I miss the desert and the wide open spaces......the hardwoods have me almost claustraphobic........
I might mention I have used a mountain bike to good measure when the distances to callin' stands lenghtened.....
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Old November 20, 2001, 11:48 PM   #34
Bowser
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The latest "hunting" aids include:

Scent blockers,

Deer attractants,

Complete shed type blinds with scent proof seals and vented 20 ft chimneys.

Why not have helicopters spray OC from the air to completely disable all the deers senses?

I've seen so-called hunting shows where two fat blokes get into recliner stands with pots of coffee, wait for a deer and pop it. Well done.


The point of my original post was to highlight that if someone thinks that walking to a hidden stand as opposed to riding to it makes it more like real hunting, they are mistaken.

Guess you like to shoot from you cars too?

Think of what your ancestors did.


And I'm not an anti-hunter. Just because I have a differing point of view does not make me the anti-Christ. Only IDIOTS assume that.

Bowser.
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Old November 21, 2001, 01:48 AM   #35
Art Eatman
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Valium time, guys. Ease off.

I also suggest some of y'all go back and re-read posts and think a bit about what was said. There are some "responses" here which indicate a bit of misunderstanding of what was previously said.

Don't go makin' ol' Papa Bear grumpy!

, Art
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Old November 21, 2001, 03:03 AM   #36
DAVID NANCARROW
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Wow-last time I saw a person this riled up is when I asked my wife if she'd gained weight! It is easy to criticize what others do if its different than what you do, or what you think. I think there is an element of danger if you go into the woods during hunting season whether its as a hunter or riding an ATV. I got out of hunting on public lands years ago because of people taking "sound shots" a euphenism for shooting at noise. Bullets can do funny things, and if you don't buy that, talk to John Kennedy among others. Not to say that you shouldn't be allowed to go on public lands, but I would ask all of us to be courteous to others as part of the experience regardless of your "mission", if I read Art's interpretation and too few others on this thread.
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Old November 21, 2001, 10:51 AM   #37
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I love the desert. Spent four years at Edwards AFB and rode for many a mile through the Joshua trees on my Yamaha 360 MX. Saw wild Mules and had to dodge more than one desert tortoise. The ravens out there are the size of eagles.
Anyway, I like to wish you all a safe and Happy Thanksgiving. Sincerely, John Parker
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Old November 21, 2001, 12:07 PM   #38
Art Eatman
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Yowzuh! Tasty turkey for all!

, Art
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Old November 21, 2001, 12:54 PM   #39
444
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The funny thing about this thread is that we are all saying the same thing. Both sides of this issue are trying to enjoy the same resource. We both want to be respected in our chosen pursuit. We have guys that want to ride ATVs recreationally and don't want limitations put on them and we have guys that want to hunt undisturbed. I don't see that we can't coexist in peace as long as we take a minute to consider each other in the equation and not try to do it our way without being willing to make slight consessions so that someone else can also enjoy the back country of this nation. We still both get to do what we want to do, we both get to have fun. The difference is that we make an effort to think of our fellow man.
Bowser, riding to a stand to hunt instead of walking is a far cry from actually doing your "hunting" off the back of an ATV. This is one of those cases were I think they are missing the fun part of hunting. Just shooting the animal to me is not the fun part of the hunt. It is just my contention that they are missing the whole point of hunting. They want to take the easist possible way. I will admit that part of this has to do with my own ego. It really burns me to work like a dog to take a big game animal only to find that someone else accomplished the same thing without any effort or use of skill. But, I don't nessessarily think they shouldn't have the right to do that.
We all have a lot to be thankful for tomorrow. We live in a country where we can ride ATVs and hunt. We live in a country where we have the leisure time to enjoy these diversions. We live in a country where we make enough money to satisfy our basic needs with enough left over to pursue our hobbies. Let's not forget that tomorrow or any other day of the year. I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving holiday. I hope you all have a family to enjoy it with. I hope you all stay safe. I will be spending the day with my second family at work. Hopefully everyone will avoid any unfortunate incident that requires my help; for both of us.
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Old November 21, 2001, 04:31 PM   #40
Art Eatman
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My son lives in southern Germany; I've visited a couple of times.

ATV? Thou shalt keep thy butt on the pavement. Only. Or be out of the ATV bidness. Same for motorcycles.

Get off the pavement? Go across country? Thou shalt walk.

Wanna hunt? I don't even begin to want to describe what's involved, nor how much money it's gonna cost you. I CAN tell you that some sort of THEY will tell you exactly when, where and how you're gonna do it. Their way, not your way.

Guns, in general? Hey, check out Mexico's laws. Essentially, none--unless you're one of the rich guys with political clout.

So, on this Thanksgiving Eve, consider just how danged good ya got it, and think again about what I've said about courtesy.

Give Thanks.

Art
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Old November 21, 2001, 08:01 PM   #41
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Love um or Hate um, If you ever get the chance to hunt The Carolina Plantation and drop that 240 lb. buck over in the cutover, I will be more than happy to let you borrow my 4 wheeler. It's parked at the skinning rack. In the right hands they are tools of the trade.
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Old November 27, 2001, 07:20 AM   #42
Don Gwinn
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People have been hunting from stands (or just climbing trees) for thousands of years. For a more recent example, read Little House in the Big Woods from the Little House on the Prairie series. Pa took both bear and deer from trees in Wisconsin and it seemed to be the norm. When they moved out on the prairies, they hunted on foot and on horseback.

I do not live in Texas or Montana. I live in Illinois. The farmer whose land I hunt is very generous and I love the guy, but if I were to walk and stalk all day I'd criscross between the borders of his patch about 500 times in a day. I walk about a mile and half to get in and I do it silently before first light. I sit in a homebuilt stand on a trail and spend all day looking at two "No Trespassing" signs on a fence twenty yards in front of my stand, placed there because the stand is there. I hunt in a hedge between two fields; timber that's maybe 30 yards across at its thickest point. My uncle is in a thicker stand of timber about 150 yards away across an open field. The rest of the family is scattered throughout a small timber 2-300 yards in the other direction. We're all within shouting distance. None of us is farther than about 60 yards from the boundary of the land.
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Old November 27, 2001, 12:15 PM   #43
Art Eatman
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One thing for folks to think about: What's "good" or "right" in one area isn't necessarily so for another area. The converse is also true.

Some parts of the country, an ATV is nothing but a disturbance, whether it's of hunters or local residents. No difference between the racket of an ATV and a doofus with a boombox at full volume.

Other places, they are perfectly rational and useful.

As usual, it comes down to the behavior of the user and the particular situation. There just ain't no "One size fits all."

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Old November 28, 2001, 01:22 AM   #44
J. Parker
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Well, gee, I thought I was done with this thread but I guess not. East of the Mississippi, hunting areas can be compacted so the chances of "running" into an evil ATV'er are increased.
West of the Mississippi, I gotta tell ya, with the vast expanse of the western states if a hunter complains about a ATV he's nothin' but a whiner.
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Old November 28, 2001, 07:39 AM   #45
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"Love um or Hate um, If you ever get the chance to hunt The Carolina Plantation and drop that 240 lb. buck over in the cutover, I will be more than happy to let you borrow my 4 wheeler. It's parked at the skinning rack. In the right hands they are tools of the trade."

Ditto: We used one on Monday to pull four deer through about a quarter mile of the most god awefull hilly thickets You've never seen. I'm against casual riding during hunting seasons(on public grounds), and even riding them to a stand (unless there is a physical need), but they sure make life easier and safer getting the animal out.
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Old November 29, 2001, 02:50 PM   #46
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J. Parker. I will complain about ATV's and I'm damn well not a whiner. I live out west as well. My elk hunt this year was totally destroyed but users of ATV's.
Example #1. I spotted a herd of elk about 500 yaerds out. They were completely oblivious of my presence, and I commenced my stalk. Three rectal orifaces on ATV's spotted me and cut me off at high speed and shot up the herd. They got thier elk all right, but screwed me in the process. Complete and total disregard for me and my enjoyment. When I complained to them about it, their attitude was "Horrray for us, screw you."
Example #2. The day before the last day. (This season was four days long.) I spotted anither small herd, made my stalk and shot my cow elk. (I had a cow tag.) I went back to my truck to get my wife to help me gut out my kill. When we got back, there were two guys on ATV's, each roaring off into the distance, with half of my elk on each vehicle. All I had left was a bloody torn up tag and a gut pile. it is a damn good thing they were out of rifle range.
Now, I have no problem with responsible use of ATV's, jet skis, snowmobiles, and 4X4's. But elk tags are hard to get here in Arizona, and seasons are short. I could not get the state to issue me another tag to at least hunt the last day.
FWIW. I was talking to a rancher in the area who was looking for a lost cow. I happened to have seen it, which gave him an idea as to where it was. We were talking and use of ATV's in the future may be totally outlawed for any use in National forests, or if allowed, severely restricted. Why? Because of the IRRESPOSIBLE use of them by slobs. By the lack of consideration shown to others by users of these vehicles. Sure. The public land is there for all to use. But if some people don't stop the "Hooray for me, screw you" attitude, none of us will be able to use it. Need an example? Look at the closing off of the deserts in california. Nuff said?
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Old November 29, 2001, 07:24 PM   #47
ATTICUS
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So are irresponsible gun owners bad...or are guns bad?
Why are ATV's any different? It's how you use them.
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Old November 29, 2001, 08:14 PM   #48
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Uh, hey guys, you might want to appreciate what you got. You should see the crap I have to put up with.

Dog hunting:barf: :

Trucks lined up along the shoulder of every local road, usually with two or three orange hats crammed in the front seat of a Nissan 4x4 with the CB talkin and the heater blastin.

Packs of dogs running through seemingly every acre of woods around here, crashing through the brush and howling.

Beer cans and human urine surround every block of woods that's huntied by these, dare I say, rednecks.

Although the letter of law tells them to do otherwise, loaded shotguns are just leaning against the tailgates, unmanned and unready.

Cars and trucks of more, ahem, rednecks, pull up next to the orange-hatted rednecks and talk awhile while the dogs hunt for them.

Dogs are starved a week in advance of deer hunting season.

So many deer are spooked up that most hunters bags 10-15 a year, causing them to only use the ribs and tenderloins, leaving the rest for whoever wants it. No appreciation for the animal that just gave their life for the food on the hunter's table.

Sound anti? Maybe a little, but it's a damn joke they way they think they're 'hunting'. How do you hunt with out getting your boots dirty? Come to the Northern Neck of Virginia. They'll be happy to have somebody to sit with in the front seat of their truck and sip beers while they're 'hunting'.

Causes me to have to go from my free state of Virginia to the slave state of New York to go hunt.

ATV's? Pullllllleeze.... Count your blessings.

If I offended any deer dog hunters out there, good. I don't get to speak up about it often, because I'm going to let them keep their rights. No matter how much I hate it, we're all on the same side.

My $.045
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Old November 30, 2001, 01:16 AM   #49
J. Parker
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Paul; I agree with you whole-heartedly. They were slobs. I don't intentionally violate anyone's privacy. The problem is I don't know you're there most of the time.
Take a jet skier for example. He know's you're there. He SEE'S you and he still does his jerk-off antics.
But please...California! I lived there for twenty years puttin' up with their bull-pucky. They're a bunch of wine drinkin', tree huggin', SUV drivers who dictate the laws from San Francisco (yes folks SF is the capital NOT Sacramento).
Well, I'm truly sorry the hunt didn't work out. If I knew you were there I'd give you a wide berth. Best Regards, J. parker
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Old November 30, 2001, 01:26 AM   #50
J. Parker
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yankytrash; I feel for ya. Like anything in life there's slob hunters and good hunters. The majority are good folks like fellow TFL'ers.
I have my opinions on hunting but maybe I should keep them to myself. Like using dogs to hunt down any kind of game.
Okay, I'll shut up now......Best Regards, J. Parker
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