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Old November 16, 2001, 06:05 PM   #1
Silent Shadow
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Simply, what's the best air rifle out there?

And simply because BEST = MOST EXPENSIVE

also include the best at moderate price

I'm thinking of buying a Beeman R9. I know it's not the best, but given it's $256 price and 800 fps at .20 caliber and the quality of Beeman air rifles, it's up there I would think.

Your thoughts?
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Old November 16, 2001, 11:37 PM   #2
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There are just too many kinds of air rifles, each with its own advantages and disadvantages to make a blanket statement about which one is 'best'.

I think that the R9 in .20 is a good choice for plinking & hunting.

The R1 is also a good choice, particularly if you think you might be interested in spending some money to enhance its performance later on. There are a lot of things that can be done to the R1--it can even be converted to a gas spring gun.

If you intend to do a lot of hunting, you might look into a gas springer like the Beeman RX2. The gas ram guns can be left cocked for long periods of time since the gas spring can not fatigue like a metal one.

Air Arms also makes some good airguns, from what I read on the net.
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Old November 16, 2001, 11:45 PM   #3
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"Best" airgun runs the gamut...

Are we talking spring, pump, CO2, or precharged? Domestic or imported?

In England, there are dozens of custom airgunsmiths who will build you just about anything you want within current limitations...

Sure, the R9 is a lighter, smooth, quality air rifle. I prefer the tuned HW97 in .22 modified into a carbine with a custom stock... but everyone has different needs and desires...

Some links: www.mac1airgun.com
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Old November 17, 2001, 11:50 AM   #4
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Ok, let's try to narrow it down.

An air rifle less than 1000 bucks that has the longest effective range, domestic or imported, pump, spring pistion, pre-charged or whatever.

I know in these kinds of discussions is hard to say what's the "best" but you could consider the best as the one that "most" people think is the best.

After all, if an air gun is good, it's good. Can't be much debating. I had an air gun 2 years ago that sucked arse.

I bet you there are some really amazing air guns out there. I just want to know which ones they are.
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Old November 17, 2001, 12:28 PM   #5
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I could buy a Cooper for less than this but...

The top of the line I've been able to shoot is a Beeman/Feinwerkbau 602.
It's a single stroke with amazingly consistent performance.
At the approximate price of $1600 (used) it's way out of reach of
most shooters except for the truly crazed
Fortunately, I'm addicted to the .22RF, so while extrimely
impressed with the tiny little groups this weapon produces,
I ain't buying one.
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Old November 17, 2001, 12:41 PM   #6
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Yeah, kindo expensive that


Ok, can somenoe tell me how they recharge pre-charged pneumatic air rifles?
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Old November 17, 2001, 12:56 PM   #7
Keith Buckner
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Here's some info about my TALON

I love this gun.. cool looks.. silenced (VERY QUITE!!) and I average 850 fps in .22 !!

It pax a punch. It'll shoot thru a coconut shell.
Pressure is completely moderated and infinitely adjustable.
I drop it down to 250 fps for "tagging" wandering stray dogs.... then crank it back up to 850+ for taking the heads off starlings.

I LOVE this gun. I shoot all day in my residential area and the neighbors can't hear a thing.

It'll only cost you about $500. To refill it, it comes with a SCUBA tank adapter so you can fill from a SCUBA tank or take it to a local SCUBA shop. They'll charge you anywhere between $2-$4 to refill. 200 BAR (about 3000 psi) "loves you long time"!

I use the handpump available for around $200. This provides a very good cardio-vascular workout for about 10 minutes that leaves you feeling "pumped", so it is multi beneficial to you. Works the abs and arms "just enough". Hard to believe that little monster can get up to 3100 psi, but it does.


I have small page up with some info, HERE

Here's a pic:
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Old November 17, 2001, 01:39 PM   #8
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You guys now have me looking at precision air rifles. LOTS of good information here:

http://www.air-rifle.net/

Ive always thought that RWS and Sheridan made fine air rifles.

the Beeman R9 "goldfinger"

Beeman R-9 Goldfinger Air Rifle and Bushnell Banner 4-12x 40mm Dusk & Dawn Airgun Scope COMBO with mounts. This special combo is set up and laser sighted by Beeman factory technicians and is all ready to go. .20 Cal. 800+ fps $388.82 @ http://www.AirgunsUSA.com/
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Old November 17, 2001, 01:46 PM   #9
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Damn, I think I've come across the best air rifle. Damn expensive, but I would say worth the price.

The Theoben Rapid 12 MkII

For the .22 caliber shots per/400c bottle at different power settings:

12ft/lbs 500 shots
30ft/lbs 100 shots
40ft/lbs 40 shots

.22 calibre
30 ft/lbs
7 or (12 shot Mag extra cost)
100 shots per charge
19 inch choked Anschütz Barrel
Weight : 3.3 kg (7.2lbs)
Overall Length : 107 cm (42.2")
2 Stage Trigger
Recoilless
Original Rapid walnut stock


I mean, this thing is silenced (Vortex Evoution silencer), powerful (up to 40lb/ft), accurate (can make humane kills at 60yards, and up to 80 yards for the experienced shooter, multi shot (12 round mag) with bolt action easy reload.

Well it seems like the best to me.

here's a pic:



and ...the problem is...

845 pounds...that's about 1250 bucks...(ouch!)
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Old November 17, 2001, 05:41 PM   #10
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Airguns... a new interest

For truely expensive, look at the Gary Barnes big bore .45 pre-charged custom rifles that can be used for big game (deer). Over $4K.

However, I believe you are talking more in the realm of affordable.

My vote for best spring powered guns would be Air Arms of Great Britain, specifically the TX200 series underlever cocking models. Incredibly silky smooth with Walther barrels. Not the highest powered (a common error of airgun newbies), but in the 925+ FPS range with .177 Crosman Premier Lite pellets, which gives 16 FP of energy. The accuracy of a good airgun with pellets it likes will amaze you. For more power, the Air Arms Pro Elite is a break barreled rifle. The TX200MkIII and the Pro Elite have integrally moderated barrels to diminish the noise.

For smooth shooting, the Theoben gas spring models are wonderful, but a bit pricy. Beeman brings in the Crow Magnum III and the SLR98 repeater, but the prices near the grand mark. I found a Crow Magnum in .22 at a gunshow for real cheap, but it was too hard to cock at over 60 pounds. It would however drive a pellet completely through a 5/8 inch piece of plywood. I traded it for another airgun and am more happy and made a nice profit.

The SLR98 is less powerful, but is a 7 shot repeater with an Anschutz barrel. I have one and would never part with it. One hole groups are routine. Expensive yes, but such a well built, attractive gun. The stock is African Hyedua wood. Theobens are essentially hand made.

If you can shoot a spring gun well, with its dual action recoil, you can shoot most anything. Pre-charged Pneumatic or PCP rifles like the Theoben Rapid 12 above are a whole different matter and offer high power (in the USA) with NO RECOIL like you get from a spring gun.

I find airgunning to be even more fun than firearms since I can shoot in the basement even with a "Magnum" airgun.

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Old November 17, 2001, 05:58 PM   #11
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I just noticed. US Federal law does not allow silencers? That's what it said in the theoben homepage I think.

That blew my dreams of getting one then

It was all going well, with my decision to get a low cost (relatively) R9 with a low cost Pro Air Simmons scope for a total of 500 bucks or so.

But now, though the price is double or more, the Theoben air guns seemed to be of a totally different class.

I mean, the Mk II Rapid 12 seems like a dream. 12 shot repeater, which makes life soo much easier, bolt action, so you don't have to sweat out 3 liters to cock the gun. What else? Oh silenced (though not allowed in the US from what I seen). Hm....oh ...and it's power and accuracy.

Adjustable powers from 12 to 40 ft/lb.

I just calculated, 40ft/lb means an amazing 926 fps with a 21 grain .22 cal pellet!

It means an unbelievable near Mach 1, 1126 fps for a 14.2 grain .22 cal pellet!

That means (comparing to what they say for 30 ft/lb up to 80 yards) you could shoot up to maybe 150 yards with this thing.

Well at least a 100 yards easily and still have like 15 ft/lb left!

That's because they say that if you start off with a muzzle engery of 27 ft/lb then the energy @ 100 yards is 12 ft/lb at 515 fps.

I mean, it seems this air rifle is unmatched in terms of power, accuracy, comfort and quality. It just shows that it is the best, unless someone is screwing up with statistics.

PS: strange thing that in the UK they allow silenced air guns but don't allow anything greater than 12 ft/lb and in the US they don't allow silencers yet they don't care how powerful you air gun is?
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:10 PM   #12
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I think US Federal law doesn't allow the IMPORTATION of FIREARM silencers.

so..... perhaps TWO factors may apply here:
1) An Airgun is NOT a firearm. ....
2) Your "silencer" should be US MADE.
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:22 PM   #13
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Hmm....on the Theoden homepage FAQ this is what it says:

Quote:
Q. I live in the USA. Can I order a Silencer from you?
A. Unfortunately we cannot supply any types of silencer or sound moderator to the USA, because it is against Federal Law.

So I really don't know.
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:26 PM   #14
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Careful

Whether the silencer is on a gun, an airgun, or just lying around is not the issue. The silencer is in itself a Class III weapon and needs the $200 tax stamp.

Silencers are legal in the US with the required BATF paperwork. In your state or local jurisdiction they may be illegal. If so, BATF will not approve the application.

Many 'experts' on the Internet say the issue of airgun silencers or moderators is a gray area as the BATF does not regulate airguns.

MY TAKE: See paragraph #1 above, and do you want to be the test case to spend $$$$$ on attorneys with the risk of being barred from gun ownership? Just because they do not actively pursue this does not mean they could not start with you. If I was putting a silencer or moderator on an airgun, I would get it approved.

Others can take the risk.
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:28 PM   #15
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Apparently.... ANY moderator cannot be imported.. no problem.. order it without the can and get a local can or make your own.

My talon's suppressor is intergrated and is not regulated in any way.... go figure.
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:30 PM   #16
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rules rules and more rules...

sometimes I wish I was in the UK. And sometimes I wish I'm glad I'm here in the US. If they could only combine their gun policies...it would be perfect

Silencers allowed in UK + high power air rifles allowed in US = air gunners are happy...

oh well
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Old November 17, 2001, 06:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
. If you were tried on a silencer charge, a lenient judge might rule that although you are guilty of violating the letter of at least one of the several silencer laws, he will suspend sentence in light of the circumstances. Great, you don’t have to serve time. But you are now an official felon. You cannot vote or hold many public offices. You cannot obtain security clearances and the felon status really does not enhance your job opportunities or social standing. And, perhaps worst of all, to a real shooter, you cannot possess a firearm, and certain other deadly weapons, or have a concealed weapons permit for the rest of your life. And, you are left with the legal bills, probably many thousands of dollars, even if you are judged to be completely innocent.
That made my decide. I'm not even mentioning the word "silencer" from now on. I don't care, I'll just get ear plugs or something or bear the sound.

There is this 3 billion page discussion at http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm that explains things very very well I would say.
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Old November 17, 2001, 10:21 PM   #18
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If a silencer is truly integral to the airgun--if it cannot be removed from the airgun without being destroyed, it's probably not going to be a problem legally. That's because a silencer must be designed to/capable of reducing the noise of a firearm report. If the item can't be removed from the airgun without being destroyed, it can't fit the definition. However, there is one BIG point that people may not consider. Let's say that tomorrow, someone with a Career Repeater goes to school and offs a few of his friends. Then concerned Congressman/woman Noguns introduces a law that declares that airguns are now, by definition firearms and subject to the same rules, regulations and restrictions as firearms. Then, suddenly, your airgun with the integral silencer has become a silenced firearm--instant felony.

To be on the safe side, if I had one I wouldn't make a big point of showing everyone my silenced airgun. After all, people EXPECT airguns to be quiet. The fact that yours is shouldn't arouse any suspicion unless you make a point of informing people.

There are at least two airguns available in the U.S. that have integral silencers. One springer and one PCP.

BTW, PCP airguns tend to be very loud. Also, in the larger calibers the more powerful models approach low end firearms performance. To the point that they are difficult and possibly unsafe to use in populated areas. If you plan to shoot in your backyard in an urban/suburban area you might want to consider a springer over a PCP. Also, don't get wrapped up in the power issue. If all you wanted was power, you could get a .30-06 for a lot less than a quality high-power airgun. That's not what most people REALLY want from an airgun--even though that's what most people THINK they want.

Think about it--what's the point of having a powerful airgun if your neighbors call the police every time you take a shot or two in your backyard?

That said, here we go.

The Career is probably the most powerful airgun that is widely commercially available in the States. It's a PCP and is available in several calibers. This airgun will almost certainly, someday soon, be involved in some sort of incident which will result in legislation that will severely restrict airgunning in the U.S. as it is already restricted almost everywhere else. If you have to have one of these, please use it responsibly for the sake of the rest of U.S. airgunners.

The Beeman Crow Magnum (Theoben Eliminator?) is probably the most powerful gas-spring airgun that is commercially available in the States.

The Beeman Kodiak (Webley Patriot) is probably the most powerful conventional metal spring piston airgun that is widely commercially available in the States.
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Old November 17, 2001, 10:40 PM   #19
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Hmm...very good points JohnKsa.

The way I think about air guns is that they are still air guns. They are still dangerous and possibly lethal, yet they are not firearms.

So basically the way I think is, heck I don't want a real rifle, it might get me into trouble and half the town would hear it if I shot it in my backyard.

On the other hand, an airgun is much quieter, and I can shoot it in my backyard, yet the thing is I don't want to be shooting at things that are 20 or 30 yards away. Something around a 100 is what I'm looking for, or at least 60/70 yards.

The Theoden Rapid Mk II .22 caliber can shoot accurately up 80 yards and more.

It costs about 450 dollars less than the Beeman Super 12 which is the counterpart of the Rapid 12 Mk I.

So I get a better air gun for 450 dollars cheaper.

That is if I am able to get it shipped from the UK without a silencer and all that.

MY choice has come down to two now, either:

A 500 dollar combo of a .20 Beeman R9 with an Air Pro Simmons 6-18x40 scope. This is if I want to go cheap and pretty good range/quality.

or

A 1265 dollar combo of a Rapid Mk II with the same accesories plus an FX pump (included in the combo).

One is almost three times the price of the other, but possible three times better too.

If it can't be shipped, then I have not choice but to get the R9.

1600+ dollars for the Beeman Super 12 seems illogical to get. But I might still think on it a tiny little more.

As for the 1300 dollar Crow Magunum...don't think it's worth the price of 4 Beeman R9s...
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Old November 17, 2001, 10:55 PM   #20
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If firearms restrictions can be applied to air rifles, do you think those same restictions could apply to Krispy Kreme donuts?

When you really apply the "right kind" of logic (you know the kind of logic that is so prevalent in most of today's rhetoric?) the one thing that donuts and air rifles DO have in common is that neither one is a firearm.

The differance in air rifles and firearms is ONLY arguable when one of the persons engaged in the discussion does not know the difference between EXPANDING gases and COMPRESSED gases returning to a natural state.

Sometimes I wonder if people who get upset about the pertainance of non-applicable laws, just lay and cringe in bed everyday instead of getting up to see what the day will yield.
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Old November 17, 2001, 11:59 PM   #21
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JohnKSa; Give me the details on these R1 modifications. I have one sitting in the safe since 1983 that I never fired. Now it doesn't work. I was going to send it in to Beeman to have a Super Tune done, but if there are more trick options to consider, I want to hear about them.


"For truly expensive, look at the Gary Barnes big bore .45 pre-charged custom rifles that can be used for big game (deer). Over $4K. "
Ok, where do I look at them ?

Krispy Kreme donuts woudn't be worthwhile to import. They are really only good fresh. One day old at the most, but right off the conveyor belt is really the way to go. I had a guy tell me last week, "You should have been a cop instead of a fireman the way you eat those donuts". I gave him the one finger salute.
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Old November 18, 2001, 12:18 AM   #22
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You can get a brand new Crow Magnum for $979 or so on the web. It is real hard to cock though (60 lbs). For me, I could cock it, but to much work for what you got.

As John said do not get on the power quest as you will miss the nicest shooting airguns for a few FPS. Pellet accuracy goes all to hell when the break the sound barrier. They are a sub-sonic design.

http://www.glbarnes.com/ for the big bore, truely custom works of art PCP guns. He has a big airgun fest at Standing Stone in PA in the summer.
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Old November 18, 2001, 01:31 AM   #23
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Yes, I always look for sub-sonic veolcities.

The Rapid mk II shoots a 21 grain .22 cal pellet at 926 fps and a 14.2 grain bullet at 1126 fps (which is a couple fps the point where it goes supersonic)

I mean, yes numbers and velocities don't always tell you how good an air rifle is, but if the difference is .22 cal at 700 fps or .22 caliber at 1100+ fps or 960+ fps...that to me seems like a huge difference which would determine whether you could shoot upt o 50 yards max or up to 100+ yards

PS:How laud is a PCP air rifle?
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Old November 18, 2001, 10:16 PM   #24
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Oh, and another thing.

They say that the Beeman Kodiak is the "Worlds Most powerful conventional mainspring airgun".

Yet the Beeman Crow Magnum III can shoot with greater muzzle energy and the pellets of same caliber are faster.

ANd also, the Theoben Dual Magnum is able to get 35 ft/lb of energy (which means very large pellet speeds, even the heavy ones) greater than both the magnum and the Kodiak. But it can onnly get it with two cockings, not one. So I guess that might not fall into the same category.

And on the Beeman hompage they say the Kodiak can get up to 29 ft/lb of energy in one cocking. But then they list the velocity for a 22 ft/lb.

I thought that the power should be the same for every cocking, why is it variable?
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Old November 18, 2001, 11:05 PM   #25
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"They say that the Beeman Kodiak is the "Worlds Most powerful conventional mainspring airgun".

Conventional as in coiled steel mainspring. In the UK it is know as the Webley Patriot. You can get a Theoben gas spring conversion for this rifle.

"Yet the Beeman Crow Magnum III can shoot with greater muzzle energy and the pellets of same caliber are faster."

Theoben gas spring or sometimes "gas ram". No coiled spring.

Dual Magnum is also a gas spring. I have handled one, but have never shot it. It is a big gun (long). I assume that maybe they are compressing the gas spring a bit more with the second cocking, but may be wrong.

"And on the Beeman hompage they say the Kodiak can get up to 29 ft/lb of energy in one cocking. But then they list the velocity for a 22 ft/lb."

Different pellet weights. LIghter equals more FPS, but less FPE.
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