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Old August 30, 2001, 08:05 PM   #1
LASur5r
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Which limb first martial arts

A lot of you guys are avid martial artists with a good many years in unarmed martial arts...in a situation where everyone starts out standing up and it is a two on one situation (facing you)...they start the fracas....which would be the limb which you would probably use right away?(i.e. punch, block, kick?)

As you engage the first guy, you hear a click behind you....you have a CCW, do you draw down on the two guys? When you see the guy behind you with a knife?

What would you tend to do if the second guy is trying to get behind you?...if they get you down, then what would you use?

Just trying to go over the natural progresssion of a fight...in an all out fight, it can degrade to a scuffle on the floor in a heartbeat. Are you ready?
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Old August 30, 2001, 08:36 PM   #2
CWL
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First thing in any fight is to avoid it. The first limb to use is your legs to run away.

Second limb to use is your legs, if in a 2:1 fight, maneuver to put yourself in line so that one of the BGs is always between yourself and the 2nd BG. Once achieved, keep this up.

NEVER let the BGs surround you, if you have to, back up against something.

There is no "set" move to use against BGs as there are always variables, practice & experience is the only way to go -if you can't run away.

If you hear the "click" you won't have time to turn around to see the guy behind you. If you turn around, you may hear another "click" from the first guy, or immediate pain as he cracks your skull/shoots/knifes you. If you let a BG get behind you and he pulls a knife, you won't have time to draw your firearm/knife -it's probably too late.

If they get you on the ground and you don't know grappling techniques, hope they aren't trying to kill you and protect your head & vitals while they pummel you. If you do know grappling, react as trained -start breaking bones.

Never get into a fight, if a fight comes to you, protect your back, even the odds. If you take one out, the second guy may just back-off.
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Old August 31, 2001, 09:05 AM   #3
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I agree with CWL that the first best option is to de-ass the area. Failing that, I would try to make my first offensive move a kick to the knee. If you take a guy's legs out he can't get behind you. I don't think that I would go for my CCW if the guy was in close with the knife. By the time I got it out I would (could) be fatally cut. Better to have your arms and hands to defend with and hopefully disarm the attacker. Then when he is disarmed or thrown to the ground you could go for the handgun. If you end up on the ground you better be extremely well trained or very lucky. Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

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Old August 31, 2001, 02:06 PM   #4
Mntneer357
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To those concerned:

CWL had it absolutely correct....the best way to survive a conflict is to NOT let it escalate to that point. IF that means vacating the area, by all means do it and FAST! Best way to avoid trouble is to not be there in the first place.

Beyond that, the best defense is a quick, hard offense. If this is a two-on-one situation, you are already operating at a severe disadvantage. The first person who comes in on me is going to get dumped hard. A quick shot (read: kick) to the knee, a fierce eye poke, a fast kick to the groin, maybe a jab to his solar plexus. I'm going to hit him as many times as I can before:
a. I throw him hard to the ground OR
b. I lock him up/choke him and tell his buddy to back off

Usually the sight of "Aggressor #1" getting badly beaten, thrown, choked, limbs broken, etc. will be enough reason for "Aggressor #2" to leave you alone. When he sees you bash his buddy he will most likely "change his views" on coming in on you.

If this situation *has* to happen, *DO NOT* let anyone get behind you (again just like CWL said). If you do, you are setting yourself up for a potentially life ending surprise.

Until I am in fear of my life I would not draw my firearm. If he has a knife, I am going to try to buy myself some time to draw my OWN knife and carve him like a Thanksgiving turkey. I would not go for my handgun until there is absolutely no other choice to defend my life.

If it were one-on-one, I'd be very happy to go to the ground and "work things out" with my aggressor. But, it is never really one-on-one....chances are he has a buddy who might try to join things.

Bottom Line: Hit them. Hit them hard! Hit them as many times as you can. DO NOT let them get behind you.

Regards,
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Old August 31, 2001, 05:26 PM   #5
AdrenalineJunky
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I am neither...

the biggest(by far) or the baddest(again, by far) person in the world. If there's one guy I'll try and hold my ground. Two guys I'll think twice. But three guys and one with a knife!!! Well, let's just say...there's no shame in running if it means living.

Last Saturday there was a giant fight (actually about three different fights going on at once) happening at the club I work at. The main fight was between a "Whitepower" type and a Mexican. Both of these guys were twice my size. On top of that we were short staffed, with only five guys (instead of seven) working that evening. Just to give you an idea of how big this "whitepower" guy was, It took three guys bigger than me (I'm 5,10 at 225lbs.) to restrain him. And he was still pushing through the other bouncers.

Anyway, after work was done, I was walking to my car(at 2:00am). I park a couple of blocks away so people won't trash my car. About half a block away from the club, the "whitepower" guy and his brother, or something(equally as big), came up behind me and started asking me questions about my ethnic background(I'm Italian, Irish and Apache. Fuccked up mix, huh?). Well, what they didn't know is that I pack a Smith & Wesson badge knife(I think it's the H.R.T.) and a S&W Special Ops flick blade, and I have worked them into my Thai routine within the last couple of weeks. So, quite honestly, I wasn't too worried. Nothing actually happened. I find that shiit-faced drunk people generally would rather talk shiit and get away with it then actually have to fight. Fine by me, I don't care what they say.

Oh yeah, to answer your question, up against two guys I'd target my strikes to these places in this order:

two fingers just below the adams apple.
pushkick to the groin.
push or round kick to the knee or inner thigh depending on angle.
Then whoever was more active would be engaged one-on-one for as long as possible.
Repeat as necessary.
Eventually I'd look to get my knees into their rib area just blow their armpit. Can't breathe, can't fight.
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Old August 31, 2001, 06:31 PM   #6
Spectre
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Blades are considered lethal force. Any situation that would warrant producing a blade warrants producing a firearm, if one has time and cannot avoid the conflict.

Spartacus can give several examples of former friends who took knives to gunfights.
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Old August 31, 2001, 06:34 PM   #7
eviltravis
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The first limb I would engage would be my right leg. It would proceed the rest of my body as I high tailed it out of there. If I could not flee, or if I had my wife with me, or some other loved one to protect,I would fight. My first thought in the situation you described would be of my gun. You did mention carrying concieled, and I always do.
I had to face an opponent with a knife a few moths ago. He was outside my house popping the tires on my car with a knife. I of course disagreed with him over this. With my wife only steps away, the man started towards us with the knife. One step... the gun cleared the holster. Step two... cycled the action. He didn't take the third step. I called the police, they came and collected him, later bringing him back because the jail was full. After the police returned with the man I of course asked wht to do if he "bothered us again? The police man told me, and I quote, "shoot the ****. They did this right in front of him so that he knew what would happen. It was kind of funny. His eyes got very big, and he left us alone. The gun ended the arguement before it began. I teach Karate, and I study judo and hapkido. I am confident that I could have crushed the man. I am also confident that he would have been able to get the knife into me at some point. I took the easiest solution to my problem. I produced a gun. In my opinion the threat of overwhelming force is better than the application of any force. Avoiding a confrontation is however the most preferable.
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Old September 2, 2001, 07:03 PM   #8
gryphon
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I agree with everyone else that posted before me, if you can escape, do so, walk, run , jog, bike, whatever. If your looking for what limb on the bad guy to incapacitate, well, no one can give you an answer until after the fight, and your answers might be 0, arm, leg, other.

You just don't know, and if you go into a fight thinking about which one, it's likely to be your arm, leg, other or life that is incapacitated.

Train hard, train real, and most of all train to not get into a fight.
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Old September 5, 2001, 02:51 AM   #9
madgrad
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IMHO

1. Run if you can.

2. If you have more than one attacker, place one in front of the other, and never go in between them, always move around them. (The most aggressive of the attacker's usually makes himself the best road block for the other ones).

3. As for which limb.

The rule is you generally take whatever is left open and can do most damage with your attack.

The factors in this involve: distance from the attacker, how the attacker stands,where your standing, what your doing befor being attacked etc, and his experiance level.
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Old September 6, 2001, 09:41 PM   #10
The Observer
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Having been in actual fight with two opponents. I did not run because my wife, my three children were with me. I face the two BG's squarely. When the first guy throw a punch I made a counter attack. The fight progresses so fast and what I know I am attacking and their counter punches being thrown to me also. It reaches to a point that one of the taller guy was able to grab me and tried to pin me down and the second one is coming to punch my face, but thanks to my little know how of Judo, I just bend down to reach the right leg of the opponent holding me and give an immediate upward pull and the damn guy fell down. Again, punches and kicks were delivered from me and I am also receiving blows from them but during fights you won't feel any pain at all just after the fight.

When the BG's cannot hold on me, they let me hear to get their weapons, and that is the time I felth a little nervous or worried bec. they might have guns. But instead of drawing guns or knives they pick up stones or any object and throwing at me, and that is the only time I run for cover to vehicles beign parked. To make the story short, it was only pacified when a policemen apprenhended them. I think if one is confronted by 2 or 3 BG's, a well trained martial artist will not run. Even they are armed if you are armed also there is the tendency to defend your self or face them squarely because you are already in the scene.

If I see them with a knife and I have one also, I will face them, but if I don't have and there is still room to run I will run but I think it is better to parry or applied any technique to hold or disarm the one stabbing me rather then I will run.

I just share my little experience and personal opinion. Thanks
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