Rate these pistols ...

[FUD]

Politics aside, how would you rank order (from best to worst) the pistols (NOT revolvers) from the following companies:<OL TYPE=A><LI> Beretta
<LI> Browning/FN
<LI> Colt (just before they stopped selling to the public -- and we're only talking about their pistol line, 1911, 1991, Pocket Nine, etc.)
<LI> Glock
<LI> H&K
<LI> Kimber
<LI> Para-Ordnance
<LI> Ruger
<LI> SIG
<LI> S&W (remember, politics asside and only their pistol line -- don't throw their revolvers into your decision)
<LI> Walther</OL>Did I miss any that you would rank high up there?

FUD Share what you know & learn what you don't

[Rex Feral]

Taking the entire pistol product line into account, for average reliability, I'd rate them:

1) H&K
2) SIG
3) Glock
4) Beretta
5) S&W
6) Browning
7) Ruger
8) Kimber
9) Colt
10) Walther
11) Para-Ordnance

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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.

[Matt VDW]

FUD, you forgot Taurus and Steyr.

I think a comparison of "pistols" covers too much territory. Company A might make the best pocket pistols while Company B might make the best target pistols.

How about a comparison of, say, .40 S&W service pistols? Specify a barrel length of 4 to 5.5 inches, a magazine capacity of at least 8 rounds, and a maximum price of $700 per pistol.

[RWK]

Fud,

Another excellent question. All of these manufacturers are good; many are excellent. Here are my opinions -- however, I stress they are strictly judgments based on more on my perceptions than on hard analyses or detailed information:

H&K
Sig
Kimber
Glock
Browning/FN
Springfield (not included in your list, but IMHO worthy of consideration)
Beretta
Kahr (not included in your list, but IMHO worthy of consideration)
Walther
Ruger
CZ (not included in your list, but IMHO worthy of consideration)
Smith
Para-Ordnance
Colt (based ONLY on your "immediately before they stopped selling to the public" criteria)

I agree that you've captured most of the affordable, high-quality brands.

Regards.


[This message has been edited by RWK (edited August 21, 2000).]

[Onslaught]

I'm gonna pick up with the "new & improved" list and go from there... But I'm going to seperate and NOT RATE the ones I have no experience with. Not really much to do here, you guys are pretty much right on...

H&K
Sig
Glock
Kahr
Browning/FN
Walther
Beretta
Taurus
Ruger
Smith & Wesson (this is not a political thing. You said "entire line", and they ARE responsible for the Sigma series )
Colt (their semi's were AWEFUL IMVHO)


I have no experience with:
Para-Ordnance
Springfield
CZ
Kimber

This is largely based on personal experience and preference. If your pistol is low on my list, but above S&W, I'm still saying it's a great gun. If it's below S&W... remember, it's still only an opinion.

[FUD]

Owning both a Taurus and a Kahr, I feel sort of senile leaving them off the list -- thanks for the catch. Father Time must be catching up to me. What is it that they say, the mind is the first thing to go?

[cghammo]

I think that all of the manufacturers you have listed produce quality pistols. Personally I would rate the Browning/FN on top followed very closely by S&W. Specificaly, the S&W 99, 40 cal.

[Richard]

This is tough!! If you are in my 9 position of above you are a very good pistol and you have nothing to be ashamed of. This is my list:
1. Browning
2. Walther
3. Kimber
4. Springfield Armory
5. Sig
6. Glock
7. Kahr
8. Colt (my Officer Model is sweet)
9. Ruger (best values out there)
10. S&W (I like my CS45 and enjoyed a friend's 3913)
11. Taurus
12. CZ
13. Beretta (no experience)
14. H&K (no experience)
15. Steyr (no experience)

Regards, Richard.

[Russell92]

this is an interesting post.

1. Glock
2. Beretta (but i feel they're even with glock
3. Sig
Kahr (not included)
4. HK
5. S&W
6. Kimber
Springfield (not included)
7. Browning
8. Walther
9. Para-Ordanance
10. Ruger
11. Colt

[9x19]

1. Glock
2. Ruger
3. Beretta
4. H&K
5. Walther
6. SIG
7. S&W
8. Browning/FN
9. Kimber
10. Para-Ordnance
11. Colt



------------------
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

[Mike in VA]

Actually, the mind is the second thing to go, but I forget the first - .

I only have hands-on (i.e I have oned) experience with SIG, H&K, Beretta, Kimber, Walther. Of those I have owned, I'd rate teh SIG and H&K at the top, closely followed by the Berettas, Kimbers, and way last, Walther (I had an Interarms Jomamatic PPK/S POS). I have shot a few Glocks, they seem well made, but I just can't warm up to that mushy trigger.
M2

[Glamdring]

For me the list would be considering price, function, etc for defense/combat use.

Glock
Kel Tec
Springfield's [1911]
SIG

Glocks only failing IMHO are the dang mag's.
The Kel Tec's lack some polish but are in a size weight class of their own for the P 11 and P 32.
I like 1911's, the first handgun I ever shot, and only one for a couple of years, was a Colt Delta in 10mm. But they are not as durable as a Glock, and they are more expensive. If I lived in an Open Carry state I would pick up a 1911 post haste, for concealment I think the Glock's and Kel Tecs are better real world choices [smaller & lighter] and you can carry a Glock & a Kel Tec for the same $'s and ounces that a 1911 would take.

[Nukem]

1)Sig
2)HK
3)Kimber
4)Para-Ord
5)Colt
6)Beretta
7)Ruger
8)Browning
9)S&W
10)Walther
11)Glock

[SmithNut]

Gee FUD,
Are you surprised??
........SmithNut

[FUD]

SmithNut, No. But I do wanna know why. Check out my related post at our hang out. FUD.

[GeneS]

FUD,

Interesting post, but also very tough chore considering the wide product line of some of these manufacturers. That being said:

1.Glock
2.Sig
3.Beretta
4.H&K
5.Walther
6.S&W
7.Ruger
8.Kimber
9.Browning
10.Colt
11.Para-Ordnance

Actually IMHO the first 5 are probably tied for 1st. CZ, Springfield, and Taurus should also fit somewhere. I just went with your original list. BTW, what's your ranking?

Gene

[BrokenArrow]

Best at what?

Reliability?

Beretta and SIG tops, 1911 at the bottom, but still more than good enough to bet your life on.

Accuracy?

Out of the box, the same. Tuned, any 1911.

Durability?

Glock, Ruger (polymer and alloy), CZ, 1911, USP.

Customer service/support?

Glock, Ruger hard to beat. Beretta, SIG, S&W pretty good. HK is the worst by far.

Who is kicking everybody's butt in sales all over the world? Glock. Gotta be a reason?

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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;----&gt; http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/

[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited August 23, 2000).]

[Quantum Singularity]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
Politics aside, how would you rank order (from best to worst) the pistols (NOT revolvers) from the following companies:<OL TYPE=A><LI> Beretta
<LI> Browning/FN
<LI> Colt (just before they stopped selling to the public -- and we're only talking about their pistol line, 1911, 1991, Pocket Nine, etc.)
<LI> Glock
<LI> H&K
<LI> Kimber
<LI> Para-Ordnance
<LI> Ruger
<LI> SIG
<LI> S&W (remember, politics asside and only their pistol line -- don't throw their revolvers into your decision)
<LI> Walther</OL>Did I miss any that you would rank high up there?

FUD Share what you know & learn what you don't[/quote]

Here is what I would rate them based on value, reliability, durability, and quality(best being on top)

1. Kimber (best gun at the price)
2(tie). Glock (the 45 Glocks 21/30 are as accurate as many Kimbers)
2(tie). Sig Sauer (excellent pistols, I question the durability)
3. Ruger
4. H&K
5. Browning
6. Kahr
7. Taurus (the Taurus "Beretta" clones are better than the original Berettas IMO)
8. Beretta
9. S&W
10. Para-Ord
11. Walther (almost as bad as Colt)
12. Colt (Worst quality I have seen in their price range)

[This message has been edited by Quantum Singularity (edited August 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Quantum Singularity (edited August 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Quantum Singularity (edited August 23, 2000).]

[RickB]

Just before they (Colt) stopped selling to the public? You mean when the Patterson factory closed in the 1830's?

[hube1236]

My own order:

1) Sig, HK, Kimber, Para-Ord, Colt, Beretta, Ruger, Browning, S&W, Walther and Glock.
2) Sling Shot
3) Rubber Band on a finger
4) Pointed finger in a jacket poket
5) A boot to the head

[Dr.Rob]

OK its no secret I like Colts. I've never had one break or fall apart. Fits my hand like a glove.. fast mag changes.. fast on the draw.. mmmmmmm.

Sure they Jam but ALL 1911's do that when underlubricated.

so my list goes:

OLD COLTS (pre series 70) 1911's, Commanders, Pocket 32's and vest pocket pistols. Shiny shiny colt blue please.. so deep you can use it as a mirror.

Newer Colts.. I don't think I'd want a Gold Cup but the Pocket 9 was on my list as were the commander sized defender and the "magnum carry". I nearly bought a 1991a1 just to leave stock.. what kid DOES'T know an american GUN is COLT and its a 45.. (ok showing my age there) Its a JMB and the slabsides served us for 80 years.. name ONE other auto that did that.. there aren't any. And its still in use.. like them or cuss them Colt has made MORE 1911's than anyone else.. I think Colt makes the best ones. :P

FN-Browning Most modern guns work on a "modified browning action" well guess what.. John Browning is still king. Hi-Powers, Model 1910's, mmmmm and the factory engraved stuff is tasty. So good even the COPIES made of the 1935 hipower are stone reliable. FN makes some of the best weapons in the world.

HK Its big its chunky its got pastic parts. No I don't mean that fugly P7, I'm talking the FIRST platic gun the VP70 (DA only 4 moving parts 18 rounds wow) and the "uberpistol of 45's the P9s Yeah I know LOTS of my pals shoot USP's in 40.. doesn't fit my hand very well.. very nice though. HK doesn't really make "small guns" their model 4 was BIG.. but it could shoot 4 calibers) Expensive and big but very well made. I passed up a vp70 for $300 8 years ago and have been kicking myself ever since.

SIG (model 226 in general) EVERY TIME I pulled the trigger the brass went into the tray.. every time. That's workmanship. But they rust. Grease 'em up or make it in stainless. Expensive and so are the magazines.

Ruger- the Mark 1 and 2 Target pistol remain my favorite 22 of all time. How anyone making such a sleek and sexy 22 can produce a tank-like russian army ugly big bore auto is lost on me.. but Rugers WORK. They are cost effective, simple and TOUGH. Best mettalurgy in the market.. I bet Ruger could tool up a factory automag (ala Pasadena-AMT-HiStandard) in no time.. they have the right steel.

Russian Military Arms. Yep. OK the mak is a little BIG.. the Tokarev a little strange in the grip.. bet you a dollar they go BANG in the worst of conditions. Like 30 below in Siberia in a blizzard.. oh wait that's NORMAL conditions in Russia. Nice guns, good price.. I like the Izmash "coldwar" guns over newer commercial Baikal guns. EG maks are the best finished.. but the mak is still a russian gun.

Walther - expensive, slick, well made. Even a wartime "black widow" P-38 should be in everyone's collection. Its the reason we HAVE SA/DA discussions. The PPK.. classic. Too pricey for me to buy a new one.

Glock Tupperware that works. I like the model 17 a lot.. the miniguns and "large frame" guns are beasts. I think they jam less than other guns (except the hipower) and I like the ulititarian "no frills " out of the box gun that they are. I'll add a glock to my collection someday.. probably a model 17.

SW never saw a smith auto I liked... they shoot aparently.. but the grip feels funny and the sigma... yuck. SW sights are ALWAYS BIG.. and the 645 was the right caliber but the gun was way heavy. I don't care for slide mounted safties and decockers either.

Beretta - Italian cars are sexy.. Italian cars need Italian mechanics to keep them running. Army tests aside.. I can't see how MORE parts means a better gun. The M9 is a BIG gun.. lots of levers and well.. I just never liked it. Sure it holds a lot of bullets.. and its an accurate pistol.. just not the one for me. The longer the M9 remains in service the more people will like it.

Taurus - Cheaper version of the Bareeta.. a concept I like.. but still the ergonomics are on par with the Beretta.

Keltec - neatest pocket rocket I ever saw.. TINY.. you can use it as a whistle.

Kahrs are ugly, chunky beasts.. but others swear by them. I'm up in the air on how to feel about this one. Need more experience.

Mauser always a well made gun, even in wartime. the HSc is a dandy, the C-96 the coolest villans gun you can ever own. Yes it has lots of parts but Hey Han Solo carried one and so did the Rocketeer. For that reason alone.. the Mauser gets a nod.

Kimber - I've seen more teeth pulled over kimber woes on this thread than any other. Some guys like em.. some guys think they are a steal. I think a TARGET gun made for TARGET shooting should STAY the hell at the target range. The problem with Gold Cups and Kimbers and other high end "tighter tolerance" 1911's is they JAM in "real conditions" I'd put ANY super comped race gun in this category. But a tricked out IPSC para ordinace 40 cal has NO place in a duty holster. I think if kimber made a milspec 1911 it would be just fine. I like the look of thier stainless guns.. I'm just not sure I'd ever buy one.

Springfield They make a good gun, they have mucho experience. Its still not a colt, but the design is solid.

Personally I'd leave the high end custom 1911 builders off the list. Its STILL a 1911

I hve little experience with lorcins, Raven, Hi-points and other such american mini-guns but my advice is this: you get more bang for your buck with an eastern block gun.. like a russian Mak or a Hungarian Hi-Power.

FEG is the BEST deal on the market. My hi-power (pjk9hp) is a slick lil number that shoots all day and begs for more.. sure she hammerbites and has thee magazine safty.. buts she is motherloving accurate and she eat ANY magazine I've put in her.. from expensive after market hi-caps to Rusty "i found this in an old ammo can" originals made in spain or pakistan or some damn place. I cannot say enough good things about this pistol.

So there its is.. from sentimental favorites to tack drivers to economical shooters.. there is something for everyone. Hopee ya liked the read.



[This message has been edited by Dr.Rob (edited August 23, 2000).]

[SmithNut]

hube1236,
Best, most accurate post yet!
Great job.
.......SmithNut