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Old August 16, 2001, 09:17 PM   #1
knzn
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action bedding and barrel floating

I would like to bed the action, and float the barrel of my Savage 110. Although I have a general idea of how to do it, I was wondering if anyone could direct me to a book, or maybe a website that details the procedure, and pictures would be nice too! Thank you

Bill
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Old August 17, 2001, 06:34 AM   #2
George Stringer
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Knzn, I know there are a couple of web sites that cover this but I don't have the addys. Brownells, www.brownells.com, Gunsmith Kinks vol 1 has a great section on bedding. Varmints Den web site has an article or two on pillar bedding. And I would think there might be information on this at a site called Sniper Country. George
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Old August 17, 2001, 07:22 AM   #3
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Try www.varminthunters.com Look in the tech section,there are a couple different detailed methods described there.Also,since you have a 110, in the same tech section there is a couple detailed methods on how to reduce the trigger pull on your Savage.
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Old August 18, 2001, 12:01 PM   #4
Art Eatman
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I suggest doing it in two stages. First, free-float the barrel. At the tip of the fore end, shim with thin plastic or wax paper, with about a five-pound pull needed to separate the barrel from the stock enough to insert the shim.

See how it shoots. Just this step has always improved the rifles on which I've done it.

Then, if you want to keep on, read up on the process and go to Brownell...

FWIW, Art
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Old August 18, 2001, 04:30 PM   #5
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Not to side track for the subject, but if you float the barrel why do you want contact at the very tip of the forend? I've never tried to pillar bed a long gun, so I'm not to sure.

Bedding isn't to difficult once you do it or see really good pictures of the process. First float your barrel with shims under the lug, fix your stock with clay so your epoxy doesn't run out,apply a release agent to your action, screws , anywhere you might get you bedding material, then screw down your action the way you will have it torqued while shooting.
Let your bedding harden, hope your metal isn't stuck to your stock, and pull it out. Fill in the lug area, reset your action, let that harden.
Really, from what I've done, you don't want to get your epoxy all over your stock when you first apply it. I think two or three applications will give you a better job with less clean up. It's alot easier to pour the epoxy than get it cleaned off places you won't want it.
Same with the release agent, a pain to clean throughly. It's been awhile since i've done one so I might have forgotten a shortcut or two. A good read on it or web sight will definitely help. markmcj
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Old August 18, 2001, 05:31 PM   #6
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The problem I have with the instructions is that I am not familiar enough with the terms used; recoil lug, tang etc. I guess this is one of those things that if you could only see it once....... Or if I had some pictures. I really need to bed several of my rifles, or at least I think I do. On all of them, the stock is in contact with the barrel. One just doesn't shoot worth a crap, it is a basically new Remington 700. The others change their point of impact after a couple shots which I believe is due to heat. My Ruger 77, .22-250 is really accurate. However, the first shot is no where near the rest of the group. I can shoot a five shot group with the final four shots being covered with a dime, the first shot is at 11:00 about 3" from the group. From what I have read, I think floating and bedding would solve this problem. Now all I need to do is learn how. I would hate to have to send the rifle to someone, I don't trust anyone locally.
All the posts say, First free float the barrel. You lost me already. How far back do you go ? How deep ? What do you use ?
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Old August 18, 2001, 06:55 PM   #7
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Even though my Savage 110's barrel was "supposed" to be free floated, the synthetic stock was touching the barrel in a few places.What i was told to do here was try to slip a dollar bill between your barrel and stock, pull the dollar up and down the stock to see if it rubs or catches on the barrel anywhere.If it does,take the stock off and sand,dremel,etc. the area's where it touches the barrel. I even hit area's on my stock where it was close.
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Old August 19, 2001, 08:13 AM   #8
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If you remove your rifle from the stock, the recoil lug will hang down under the barrel just in front of the receiver, the back of it keeps the rifle in it's stock. The quickest way to float barrel is to cut up a credit card in roughly the same shape as the bottom of the recoil lug. Put 2 or 3 shims in the bottom of the stock where the recoil lug goes, tighten the action in the stock, see if you can slide 2 or 3 dollar bills all the way from where the forend starts to the receiver. If not add a couple more shims under the recoil lug. Go out and see if it helps. I think that this is one of the best things about guns,change something then you get to go shoot. markmcj
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Old August 20, 2001, 08:11 AM   #9
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If you buy a bedding kit from Brownells, Acraglass or Acraglass Gel, it comes with illustrated instructions.
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Old August 20, 2001, 09:02 AM   #10
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Try this ...

Get the Gunsmithing book published by the NRA -- it has a whole chapter with pictures about rifle bedding and the example used is a Savage model 110. Good read -- good book, tight groups !!
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Old August 20, 2001, 09:27 AM   #11
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I think Gale MacMillan said that if a free floated gun changed impact when it heated up, the bbl had been straightened after boring which was not the proper way but cheaper. He recommended stress relieving - IIRC a deep freeze treatment.
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Old August 20, 2001, 11:33 AM   #12
Art Eatman
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markmcj: The purpose of the shim is to dampen the vibrations of the barrel. This creates shot-to-shot uniformity. I guess an analogy would be the shock absorbers on a car.

My uncle showed me this "trick" in 1950, and it's always worked. I imagine he was just guessing, just as I am. And remember, insofar as the utility, I'm a hunter, not a bench-rest competitor. My needs are different, as far as absolute group size.

, Art
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Old August 20, 2001, 02:53 PM   #13
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Art; That something I will give a try someday, I love the easy stuff!
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Old August 20, 2001, 05:30 PM   #14
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I wouldn't waste my time on Acraglass. OK, but I've found the MarineTex from boating supply stores to be much better. Better shear and shock resistance. Cheaper, and comes in grey and white. Grey looks like black-parked steel. easier to finish, and fully machinable, if needed. Lasts longer than Acraglass, NEVER crystalizes, and comes in several forms (I prefer the tubes). LOTS easier to work with (paste rather than semi-liquid). Water-based release agents work perfectly.
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Old December 15, 2008, 02:48 AM   #15
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I just Bedded a Remington 700SPS with surprisingly good results- Visually at least. I know this is gonna sound like I'm lying, but the Acra Glass has Adhered to the stock.

To the original post I found good advice on how to do this all over the internet, including forums like this one. I especially liked the one on the McMillan Website.

I'd like to know how to inspect the bedding job afterward to see if there may be something I did wrong. I didn't get the results I was expecting.
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Old December 15, 2008, 09:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
First, free-float the barrel. At the tip of the fore end, shim with thin plastic or wax paper, with about a five-pound pull needed to separate the barrel from the stock enough to insert the shim.
I guess I don't understand what you are recommending. Sounds to me like you are saying "remve stock materal so the barrel is free floated then turn around and un-free float it with wax paper.

Am I reading that right??
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Old December 15, 2008, 10:32 PM   #17
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The process Art is talking about is the way many rifles come from the factory. If you remove a Remington action from the stock you will note a ridge or bump in the stock near the fore end. This places a slight amount of upward pressure on the barrel.

It seems to help slender mountain rifle type barrels shoot better but the general consensus is that most standard and heavy barrels shoot better free floated. If your rifle is not shooting as well as you would like it is fairly easy to remove, or add this foreend pressure and see how it affects your individual rifle.
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Old December 15, 2008, 10:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
I guess I don't understand what you are recommending. Sounds to me like you are saying "remve stock materal so the barrel is free floated then turn around and un-free float it with wax paper.
That is exactly what he is saying. You are creating a single "pressure point". Removing the material from the rest of the stock removes the variable pressure points that can be created and/or removed as the barrel heats up or as humidity changes the wood within the stock. By having a single pressure point, it dampens the barrel vibrations without changing as temperature/conditions change. It doesn't always work. That is why you use a piece of paper so that you can try moving it or remove it entirely. If you are able to find a sweet spot with the piece of paper, replace it with a drop of silicone.
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Old December 15, 2008, 11:15 PM   #19
ndking1126
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Quote:
Removing the material from the rest of the stock removes the variable pressure points that can be created and/or removed as the barrel heats up or as humidity changes the wood within the stock.
Maybe this is where my confusion came in. I free-floated my Rem 700 (my only experience in this type of work) and there was the slight raise in material as mentioned near the fore end. I was able to confirm before hand that no other places on the stock would make contact with the barrel, even if it expanded because of heat/humidity.

It makes sense if there are multiple points of contact you would want to get rid of them and try just the one point.

Thanks
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Old December 16, 2008, 12:37 AM   #20
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I'm away from my reference material, but Harold Vaughn had a more specific version of the technique which he credited to a particular individual. In the attached drawing you will see it diagrammed. Basically, after floating the barrel a 10 lb weight is hung from the tip of the forend of the stock to flex it down. Paper matchbook matchsticks are wedged in at as close the to ideal angle as possible. The weight is removed and a group fired. The weight is added again and the matchsticks are moved back a quarter of an inch or so, and the weight is removed and a group fired. This is repeated until the best tuning point front to back, for the paper matches is found.

Back at the ranch, the gun is removed from the stock and mold release put on the barrel. It is reassembled. The weight is applied once again to the forestock. Some slow-set epoxy is mixed and the ends of the matchstick that contacted the barrel are cut off from the rest of the match and are saturated with the expoxy. They are then slid back in where they created the sweet spot. This should be snug. After curing for a day, the weight is again removed. The epoxy is allowed to set a week before shooting.

At that point the adjustment is permanent. Should you which to change ammo, you might do better to have something adjustable. Some was offering such a tuner awhile back. Basically a little contact slide whose position is adjusted with a screw.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Tuning pressure point.gif (13.4 KB, 52 views)
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Old December 25, 2008, 06:58 AM   #21
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I would suggest you visit the Miles Gilbert web site. They offer kits for glass bedding a rifle. I just finished this job on my Ruger Hawkeye .223 Rem and I am very pleased with the results.

The Miles Gilbert site has their instructions available for reviewing the procedures to bed a rifle. Their instructions are very detailed. Their kits include just about everything you will need to bed a rifle. You will want to fully understand the process before starting.

When you start out, only bed the tang area at first. And then go shooting to see if you need to bed further. Only bedding this area had my Hawkeye really tight and found no need to bed any other areas.

It only takes a small amount of bedding compound to do the job, only mix a small quantity of resin. And don't panic about separating the action from the stock, they will be tight together, just keep working to loosen them.

I floated the barrel with only sand paper, it took a while, but I didn't have much wood to remove. I fired my rifle after only doing this and I did not notice much difference.

Between glass bedding and matching the bullet weight to the twist on your rifle made a big difference for me. The Ruger Hawkeye is a 1:9 twist, which likes a heavier bullet. Most factory ammo out their is 55 gr, and a 1:9 twist performs better with a 75 or 80 gr bullet. I reload and found my reloads now will group very well, but the 55 gr. factory ammo does not.

I am just a regular joe and had read about improving a rifles shooting with glass bedding and it does work. It is a project many people can do, just take your time, run through the process dry first, understanding exactly what you will do for every step and then get a 2 hour window of no interruptions to perform the bedding....good luck.
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Old December 27, 2008, 09:46 PM   #22
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Some time ago ,here on TFL,a gentleman showed some of his work glasbedding.He also had a long box full of what appeared to be crushed walnut hulls he snuggled the rifle down into.That guy knows how!! I don't know who it was.
The forend shim has been a bit confusing as it is more accurately called a "forend pressure point" bedding.Another way to accomplish it is to put the rear portion of the stock in a padded vise.hang a 3 or 5 lb weight from the forward sling swivel stud.Put a little release on the barrel,and a spot of your favorite goo at the forend forward end.Install action and torque the screws.When the resin is hard,you will have tension.


In any case

Do not torque the rear guard screw first.Go in stages,with the front guard screw torqued before the rear one.

Be sure the guard screws do not contact the stock.

Frankly,without knowing your skills,and I mean no disrespect,if you are confused by the terminology as we discuss this issue,you may need to find an experienced mentor,or just pay a good smith to get it done.

Having said that,In a series of well planned stages,I might carefully set the action up for a pillar bed job first,then remove material all around the magazine and guard,and glass the guard Then I would probably mill and grindmaterial out all around the receiver,recoil lug,etc,and glass the receiverwith it resting on the pillar bed I just did.I might put one thickness of magic clear tape on most of the action,except for the primary bedding areas at the lug and tang and pillars.

Then I might take it apart,grind or mill the barrel channel out maybe 1/16 of an inch all the way around.I'd put 2 or 3 layers of wide electricials tape carefully on the barrel and install it.I would then run something thicker than a dollar bill,maybe a piece of flannel between the bbl and stock to see that I had clearance all around the tape.Then,I would take it apart,and lay the glass in the forend.

But,everybody does it different.Sometimes an ultralight foamcore and kevlar stock,sometimes wood.

Do you know the old school black or horn forend tips weren't just decoration?They were to seal the end grain from wicking water ito the wood of the forend.

With changing moisture content,and some stocks whose grain structure is unstable,wood can be troublesome in a forend.Free float and glass solve the problem.

If the torquing of guard screws has caused any crush at the tang or front lug,or if in any other way the reciever is being stressed as the guard screws are tightened,the rifle won't shoot so well.Pillars are good.They don't crush.

The top edge of the mag box should show no gap at the reciever,but should bot bear tight.I use 1 thickness tape clearance when I glass the mag box and guard.

If you have an aluminum floorplate/guard,please do not pull it out of the stock by the trigger guard bow.You may hear a discouraging snap as it breaks right at the hole for the hinged floorplate pin.

I am not trying to discourage you too much.There is a lot to a complete action bed and freefloat job .
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