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Old August 1, 2001, 02:31 PM   #26
eyeball
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and it is also funny how some people assume a fight is a boxing match
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Old August 1, 2001, 03:30 PM   #27
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Eyeball, just what I was thinking.

Its not neccesarily that I'm worried about getting punched by somebody like that, it is when they grab your leg with one hand and your arm with the other and pull you in half.
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Old August 1, 2001, 07:35 PM   #28
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There are different punching styles. In the art I train in, for instance, the shoulder is really not utilized much in the punch (though the hips and obliques are).

Every punching style of which I am aware, incorporates the tricep muscles.
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Old August 2, 2001, 03:39 PM   #29
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eyeball and Correia: where you referring to me? I wasn't talking about a boxing match. I made a reference to the way that boxer's train to make a point: that speed is more important than size. If you want to comment on something I said, go right ahead, but how about addressing me.

Spectre: I don't see how you couldn't use your shoulder when you punch. Could you explain?

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Old August 2, 2001, 03:55 PM   #30
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In the Japanese styles that Spectre and I study, most punches have the body moving behind the punch,i.e, you are stepping through the punch. Of course, the shoulder is used-after all that's where your arm attaches to your body-just not in the same manner as other styles use.

I think what Spectre meant to say was that the force of the strike is not dependent on the shoulder muscles in our styles.
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Old August 2, 2001, 04:47 PM   #31
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Yup. Unlike some other styles that "throw" the shoulder into the punch. I believe part of the difference is between using a vertical and a horizontal punch.

With the typical boxing punch, the palm is facing down. With a vertical punch, the fist is held with palms facing inward.

Anyway, my whole point was that there are different punching styles, but they all use the triceps heavily. Not all derive their power from the shoulder muscles. Even in boxing: look at the jab; all tricep. Look at the Wing Chung "chain" punch: all tricep.
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Old August 2, 2001, 05:20 PM   #32
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CR, no insult intended. Nor was I thinking of anything in particular that anybody said. I was just thinking that even though pecs are not the most important muscle for punching, there are lots of other ways that somebody who weight trains can inflict damage upon you. Guys with 300+ bench presses usually are strong in lots of other ways as well.
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Old August 2, 2001, 07:15 PM   #33
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Lifting weights means you amass a lot of fast twitch muscle fiber and that your muscles fatigue easily. They may be explosive, but anaerobic conditioning combined with no breathing technique=...ever see "Tough Man" ? Riiiight. And that's why you won't see serious fighters doing a body builders workout at the gym. Those guys who can bench 600 lbs won't last more than 10 seconds.
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Old August 2, 2001, 08:49 PM   #34
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Tyson is a body builder yet he is one of the quickest people out there. Shamrock, a serious fighter, could pass as a pro bodybuilder and yet he is successful at fighting. how do you explain this? simple. you have to realize that muscle mass doesn't automatically equal slowness.

CRreynolds, i wasn't addressing you specifically I just noticed there are a lots of people who hold the same ideas you have in this thread.
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Old August 3, 2001, 12:05 AM   #35
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Last edited by ATeaM; August 3, 2001 at 05:08 AM.
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Old August 3, 2001, 10:03 AM   #36
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Lately I've been benching 200 grains, five reps per set, about five sets. This is just for accuracy work during load development. On my "max" days I will bench 240 grainers, same rep and set quantity. Of course all of this is followed by speed work to maintain proficiency.

Oh, were you guys talking about weightlifting?
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Old August 3, 2001, 01:25 PM   #37
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I've never really concerned myself with the benchpress. Proper breathing, staying loose until impact and learning to use your whole body are way more important in hitting hard.

Mostly I do internal Chinese exercises for strength. Combining these exercises (that develop the muscles from the inside out) and external exercises such as bench press( develop outside in) is the best bet.

Of course, being able to hit hard doesn't help you if you hit the wrong spot.
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Old August 3, 2001, 09:48 PM   #38
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Seems like most of my lifting these days are 12 oz curls.
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Old August 3, 2001, 11:28 PM   #39
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I don't know how many folks think that bodybuilders are slow--I don't. But I don't think that they're any faster or better fighters than anyone else, which I believe a lot of people do think.

Size does matter, though, as does power.

But in truth, I'm not really looking out for the built guy--I'm looking out for the scrawny guy with his shirt untucked.
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Old August 5, 2001, 12:43 PM   #40
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I highly doubt it...

"I read in the paper this week that Larry Allen of the Cowboys was benching somewhere between 650 and 700 lbs. Un-effin-real."

They also said Allen was 11% bodyfat. If he's 11%, then I'm about a negative 5. He's 25% at least. If you believe the media, every football player in the NFL and college can bench 500 or more. They just like to throw out round numbers. Benching 700 pounds is something that very few powerlifters in the world can do, even with the aid of bench shirts, and that's what they train to do. I call BS on Allen's 700 bench claim.

Plus, have you ever seen most footballers bench? Bounce city.
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Old August 6, 2001, 10:30 AM   #41
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In college, I squatted 650. So did my lifting partner. We were ecstatic. We were monsters. We were huge.

We were CHEATING. We never progressed past 650 and we wondered why. Then I started reading some of the HIT forums and reading about squat form and realized I was doing something very wrong--my range of motion was probably 6-10 inches with those huge weights. I was just demonstrating how much weight I could stand under without crumbling. I backed WAY off on the weight and began full squats below parallel. That took me down to 155 before I could do it with good form! But it was the only way to get stronger for real.

I'll never forget a high school football coach yelling at one of the other linemen. "You don't stand chest to chest and try to throw him sideways! That kid benches 300 pounds! Get underneath him!" Of course, on the next play I got lower too and the result was the same. Lesson?

No, strength will not dominate someone with good knowledge and training and an understanding of how to overcome strength and strike its absence. But wouldn't you rather have both?

(PS--yes, I know, football is not combat. But the principles are similar.)
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Old August 6, 2001, 01:47 PM   #42
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Oops, Sorry, I thought this was a reloading question.
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Old August 11, 2001, 01:23 PM   #43
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bench

5'7" tall, 50" chest, 18" biceps, 32" waist, 200lbs.

Max bench 365lbs with strict form.

You gotta be in good condition, phisically & mentally in any kind of confrontation!!!
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Old August 11, 2001, 11:04 PM   #44
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Was 400lb now 300lb. BTW, The chest is used in in the "hook", It depends on what punch you throw.

Hey................. this is the first time I posted here?!?
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Old August 14, 2001, 12:00 PM   #45
cuerno de chivo
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Many moons ago:

325lbs at a body weight of 210lbs, full pause, no bench shirt, and full lockout BTW.

I'm still more "proud" of my power clean and press (not push press) of 225lbs at a body weight of 220lbs though.

Now:

I'm sure that I could at least do my body weight (240ish), but I really haven't lifted in years.
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Old August 17, 2001, 01:26 AM   #46
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OK guys. What is a bench shirt and do I need one? I currently have the sought after "bean pole physique." 6'2", 190lb, 8% fat and I bench 200lbs, but I can't brush my teeth for the next week
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Old August 17, 2001, 08:21 PM   #47
cuerno de chivo
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A bench shirt is one of the gimmicks in Power Lifting. It is essentially a very tight and elastic shirt to help you lift more weight. And no, you don't need one. Try over-head presses instead, much better exercise IMO.
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Old August 18, 2001, 08:48 PM   #48
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OK then. What on earth is the point of a bench shirt. If it makes it easier to lift the weight then it is just cheating. After all weight training is difficult by nature, that is the whole idea.

If you got ripped by doing easy stuff I would spend a whole lot less time at the gym
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