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Old July 12, 2001, 09:48 PM   #1
exilefromhell
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What is your arguement for full auto?

I was wondering what your reasoning and/or purposes for full auto were. I've always been interested and heard mostly negative things about it. Most say its spray and pray...inaccurate as all hell, etc, etc. I am going to find out more about the class III in my area.

also, what do you think of the hell fire trigger or similar products as an alternative to fullauto/class III...?


Thanks
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Old July 12, 2001, 11:57 PM   #2
glockten
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The most fun you can have with your pants on.
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Old July 13, 2001, 03:40 AM   #3
chetchat
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'Cause it's there....

... and I can do it

Tactically, it's suppressive fire. It's "make the other guy too scared to poke his head up" fire. Select-fire allows an infantryman to temporarily assume the role of a LMG or belt fed weapon. Accuracy is subjective and dependent on training, mission, and the weapon being used.

Recreationally, full auto weapons are like big V-8 engines, large dogs, and girl friends with ample breasts : they aren't necessary, but when you got 'em they sure are a lot of fun.
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Old July 13, 2001, 03:44 AM   #4
4V50 Gary
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Because as serious students of small arms, we should be allowed access to study them. Besides, they're fun to boot.
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Old July 13, 2001, 03:47 AM   #5
PreserveFreedom
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Not to mention, to maintain the security of a free state, the military should not have access to any arms that the population doesn't.
 
Old July 13, 2001, 06:51 AM   #6
exilefromhell
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interesting points

i wonder if you could get an AR with tri-burst and full auto now a days
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Old July 14, 2001, 09:47 PM   #7
Byron
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Best buy is Ruger AC556: Select fire semi, 3-rnd burst, full auto. Less than half the price of an M16A2. Long or short barrel, standard or folding stock. Ciener makes a nice .22LR conversion kit, too, for cheap shooting.
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Old July 14, 2001, 11:14 PM   #8
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It's the most efficient way to money into noise!
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Old July 15, 2001, 12:17 PM   #9
KSFreeman
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Exile, that's the joy of living in a free republic. I don't need a reason or purpose to exercise a right. But if you must have a reason, I say it's legally required that I own fully-automatic weapons. Read Miller again.

As a tactically matter, hand-held full auto is nearly worthless, but extremely fun. Full-auto with tripod and change barrels wins battles.

I am confused about your comment you are getting into "Class III." Are you getting a SOT number or do you just wish to purchase a Title II weapon?
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Old July 20, 2001, 08:02 AM   #10
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With proper training, discipline & trigger control FA gives the user a few more options. Single shot for "precision" work, hit your target with two or three rounds (ups the chances of instantly neutralizing the target (controlled burst)) or laying down suppressive fire during fire and maneuver.

I agree with Chet. Having a Lingenfelter (sp?) 650 HP Corvette or a Hennessey Venom 800 (HP) Viper isn't necessary but they give you that extra you can use if needed and I'm sure they would be a hell of a lot of fun cruising the Blvd on Fri/Sat nights.
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Old July 20, 2001, 11:01 AM   #11
exilefromhell
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disregard last comment. i was confused on some issues and now know what it is about and what i want/am talking about.

KSF..where is this read on Miller that you speak of? URL?

thanks
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Old July 21, 2001, 12:25 AM   #12
Spectre
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I was reading something recently (can't remember where, unfortunately) about how many hits of 9mm it took to immediately neutralize Soviet infantryment in WW II. I think 5 was the number given, except for the Siberians. They took about 9!
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Old July 22, 2001, 08:51 PM   #13
JimFromFL
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There is no need for an argument.....

Just add it to the following "why" list....
Why do people buy $3K-$25K boats when they can fish from a pier?
Why do people buy 6 figure cars when they can buy an Ford Escrow?
Why do people buy $650,000 motor homes when a $35,000 one will do just fine?
Why do people own full autos?

The answer is... because they want to. It is their choice.
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Old July 24, 2001, 08:23 PM   #14
tomandnacole
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easy. supresive fire!, intersecting fields of fire aim center mass and dont look the target in the eyes. 6 to 9 rd burst recomended
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Old July 25, 2001, 10:42 PM   #15
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In response to PreserveFreedom, there are some very good weapons why the military should have access to weapons that we as civilians can't have. I don't agree with making owning a full auto completely illegal, but the tough regulations and high prices it takes to get one are good. If you could go down to your local gun shop and purchase a full auto just like a bolt action rifle, there would be millions more in circulation. Now imagine if a mentally unstable person (such as a school shooter) got their hands on one. You could do many times the damage with a full auto in a crowded area (such as a school) than you could with a shotgun or a semiautomatic pistol or rifle. I know my school is so crowded that if anyone decided to shoot it up, the limiting factor in the amount of people they'd kill is the amount of bullets they could put out. So anyways, that's just my 2 cents, and I felt compelled to share it because crazy radicals like ConserveFreedom aggrivate me with their ideas that the government is always out to get you and that every law is bad. But more on topic to the thread, ownership of full autos with the current regulations is purely for fun. I would imagine that unloading a clip from an MP5 would be something every gun fan would want to experience.
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Old July 27, 2001, 11:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
because crazy radicals like ConserveFreedom
Yeah! And you can add some names to that list of crazy radicals!

Names like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Sam Adams, Patrick Henry...


That sounded like it came straight from Sarah Brady's script, Peach! "You don't NEED an AK-47 to hunt!"

The only RIGHT way to deal with school shooters, and the like, is to make it very expensive to do such a thing. Consistently, quickly, very expensive. Paying with your life expensive. By armed teachers or a criminal justice system, which we do not have now.


BTW, MP5s don't use "clips", they use magazines.



Hey, Blades, I think there may be a more efficient way to turn money into noise. At least, it's quicker.

High explosives!
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Last edited by Quartus; July 28, 2001 at 03:45 AM.
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Old July 28, 2001, 01:37 AM   #17
George Helser
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exile,

MY reasons for buying a full auto arm were:
a) Always thought it would be neat to have but not worth the hassle, until it was banned.
b) When the ‘86 ban was announced, it became a MUST HAVE.
c) The bun virtually guaranteed my investment would appreciate, and it really has!

Frankly, full auto shooting with my MP5 is less satisfying than my other arms but I enjoy taking out someone who has never tried it and let them run a few 30 round mags through it.
But they have to stuff the mags full of ammo.

I wonder what an MP5 will be worth in 20 years.

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
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Old July 28, 2001, 09:04 AM   #18
Quartus
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Quote:
I wonder what an MP5 will be worth in 20 years.
George, the way things have been going, I'd say about 20 years!
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Old July 28, 2001, 05:35 PM   #19
Apeach
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Hey, I'm not against owning fully automatic weapons or high capacity magazines or anything of that sort. In fact, I think it'd be really cool to have one. I just don't think that they should be any easier to get, because then there'd be too many of them out there, and it'd be too easy for crazy people to get their hands on them. I think the answer is to release a small amount of full auto weapons and high capacity mags for sale every year to drop the prices some, but keep the tax and the papers you need to get signed there. Then it'd be easier for qualified and honest gun owners to get them for their enjoyment, but criminals wouldn't be able to. Also, that whole shtick about Thomas Jefferson and all those about standing for the same things as you is BS, and I'm getting tired of it. Everyone just warps their words to mean whatever they want it to, and since they're not around to say differently, it passes. There's a big difference between what they were trying to do and what you're trying to do. They were trying to set up a democratic government, and they mostly succeeded, but you're trying to overthrow a democratic government and give us total anarchy. And you'd think the government hasn't done so much for you.
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Old July 28, 2001, 08:08 PM   #20
Justin
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APeach-

If I am not crazy, why should my rights be either
1)Suspended
2)Sold back to me at a price
3)Registered, stamped, and fine-print sanitized?

As a fully sapient individual, it is my belief that any sacrifice of my inalienable human rights for the sake of society's 'safety' are in essence a compromise with evil.

http://www.webleyweb.com/lneil/whyguns.html
No, I don't agree with everything L. Neil Smith says, but the above link is a fine read, and good food for thought.

Basically, once you start registering, taxing, or deciding who is permitted to exercise a right, said right cease to be.

And once you start doing it to something sort of superfluous, or kitchy or fun, you begin to erode the basics of an individual's ability to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
In other words, you begin to erode property rights, and the individual's ability to profit from them.

Besides, I would really, really, really like to have a Stechkin, but due to the laws, I doubt that I will ever be able to own one because they have driven the prices up so much.
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Old July 28, 2001, 08:56 PM   #21
Quartus
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They were trying to set up a democratic government,
Peach, before you accuse other people of twisting the words of the Founding Fathers, you really ought to read them yourself. If you had, you'd know that they were unalterably opposed to democracy.

That's why they founded a Republic. There is a world of difference between those two, a difference they, and those who have read them more than superficially, understand very well.
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Old July 29, 2001, 07:32 PM   #22
Tamara
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Let's see if I got this straight...

Because someone else might do something bad with something, like a full-auto weapon, I should be forced to jump through hoops and pay through the nose to buy such a device myself.

Do you know how many millions of dollars of damage are done to our economy, how many lives ruined, by computer bank theft, hacking, identity theft, credit fraud and other crimes that are only made possible by having access to an internet-connected computer. Perhaps if we made everyone who wanted an internet connection or, better yet, everyone who wanted a computer pay a $200 tax, get fingerprinted and go through a background check and a de facto six-to-eight month waiting period. That'd help protect society from the damage these machines can cause, right?
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Old July 29, 2001, 08:04 PM   #23
Herr Walther
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MP-5K

Our local range just aquired one of these. Man, what a blast.

Very controllable and the recoil isn't even noticable. All 31 rounds in a 12 circle at 15 yards from the shoulder. I'm hooked.

I wonder if I could cut down my G3?

I gotta get outa Illinois.
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Old July 29, 2001, 08:07 PM   #24
shiroikuma
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I'm more or less with appeach on this one. I don't think the supply should be limited via outlawing new manufacture for civis but heck yess you should have to jump through hoops and get liscensed. Just like you do with that ooh so much more familiar deadly device the automobile. I'm against private ownership of backpack nuclear 'devices' as well.

Some of you live in caves types should read a little and you'd realize that if governments as a concept didn't greatly benifit the people their wouldn't be any governments. Same thing with laws. yea thier is abuse but it's still much much better to have them.

shiro
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Old July 29, 2001, 08:17 PM   #25
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PreserveFreedom,

That's exactly it.
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