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Old July 11, 2001, 08:04 AM   #1
Tree Rat
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TiteGroup

Who has experience with this propellant specifically in 45ACP and 38 Special. Tree Rat.
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Old July 11, 2001, 09:05 AM   #2
Alleycat
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I went to Titegroup some time ago due to it's extreme cleanliness in my 625 in 45 ACP. It's a little sooty, but sott won't tie up the gun like some of the gunk and unburned powder I'd been seeing from some other powders.

This year for the IRC I went from IPSC major down towards the ICORE power floor at 120,000. A discovery: When loads get light, Titegroup gets grubby. Must need pressure to burn cleanly. PF 145 was as low as I could go reliably, and that with a hard roll crimp. Sooty? Some. Otherwise, it's a clean propellant, and I can go 1k rounds plus wihtout having to brush out my cylinder, which I like a lot. I'll keep using it.

My current favorite 45 ACP load is 4.1 gr titegroup under a 230 gr Rainier PRN with a hard roll crimp. Gotta go to max load for IPSC major in the revolver, though.

Steve
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Old July 11, 2001, 12:28 PM   #3
Tree Rat
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Alleycat - I already had impressions with my experience..just did not want to lead the question. In 45ACP with Berry 200 RS and West Coast 185 FP's loaded to mid range or IDPA PF, I had LOTS of flakey residue covering my arms after 50 rounds or so. I suppose this is the soot to which you refer but some of this by product may indeed be unburned propellant. In 38 Special, it does not seem to be as bad a problem but then there is no action to fly stuff around. It did dump fired cases out on a white piece of paper which yieled only slight residue. Kinda disappointing this TiteGroup. I had hoped it would be a good interim between the fast and SUPER clean Clays and HP38. Universal Clays while another great propellant, definatley needs to be pressured up to work right in lower pressure cartridges like 45 and 38. Thanks for your insight. Tree Rat.
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Old July 11, 2001, 12:47 PM   #4
Alleycat
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Just for reference, I went to the Titegroup after terrible problems tying up the revolver with unburned powder using Clays at similar power levels. Since I shoot only one match per year at the lower power factors, it's really not an issue. For USPSA major, which is pretty much all I shoot, it's clean, clean, clean. The soot I refer to is the dark deposit left on the gun after firing, not the flakey stuff you describe.

Overall, very happy with the powder, just need to recognize its limitations.

Steve
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Old July 11, 2001, 12:57 PM   #5
ArmySon
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3.8 grains of Titegroup behind a 185 grain LSWC will give you a smoothe bullseye load. It will require a 12 lb spring but is one of the MOST ACCURATE LOADS available.
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Old July 11, 2001, 07:56 PM   #6
bullet44
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4.1 grs of titegroup with a 200swc, great accuracy., but have not found it any good for
other calibers.
Me too, 1911 45acp.

Last edited by bullet44; July 12, 2001 at 07:09 AM.
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Old July 11, 2001, 09:59 PM   #7
ArmySon
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OOPS, I failed to mention that my data is a 1911 Gov't. Your mileage will definitely vary with short barrel guns.
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Old July 12, 2001, 08:23 AM   #8
Tree Rat
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Okay..thanks Alleycat. I'll bump up the load in 45 and see what I get. Interesting your experiences with Clays. The only reason I looked to TiteGroup (other than being curious) was I wanted to reduce presure with a somewhat slower powder which TiteGroupd does. Since the two are similar in burn rates, I was just surprised to see that much burned or unburned junk from mid range loads. Incidently, switched back to a mid range HP38 load with an even slower burn rate, and it was much cleaner, with only some specs on the white shirt I was wearing when shooting. I guess I'm puzzled here because I thought lower pressure cartridges like 45ACP and 38 special worked better with faster powders. Slower powders had more tendancy to dirty up or burn inefficiently when not presured up. Universal Clays does this but really shines in high pressure cartridges like 9mm and .40S&W. I'm learning. Tree Rat.
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Old July 16, 2001, 12:04 AM   #9
NetLar
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Titegroup in .45 ACP

Shot a couple hundred rounds of .45 ACP loaded with Titegroup today:

Precision Bullet 200gr coated LRN (www.precisionbullets.com)
Rem 2.5 & and Win LP primers
4.2 gr Titegroup
Speer brass, crimped to .470
1.24 OAL
5" barrel - 18.5lb recoil spring

I was at the range about 16:00-18:30. Temp was in the very high 90's, relative humidity about 85% (it rained this AM). Chrony 10' from the muzzle.

Representative 10 shot group with the Rem primer:
844fps avg velocity
811fps slowest
859fps fastest
48fps extreme spread
14.93 SD

Same with the WLP primer:
846fps avg velocity
835fps slowest
854fps fastest
19fps extreme spread
7.93 SD

I've heard the Win primer is a little hotter. Today, it yielded more consistent velocities.

Shooting from a kinda sloppy rest, 25-yard 10 shot groups were about 5" w/ Rem primers & about 4" with the WLP's.

I shot five rounds w/ the WLP primer & loaded with 4.8gr powder, all else the same. Avg velocity was 889fps. Recoil was sharper. I'll keep shooting the 4.2 gr load - pleasant plinking load & it had no problem cycling against the HD spring.

Loads were much smokier than some Federal 230gr American Eagle shot at the same time, but I'm not sure whether that's Titegroup or the coated bullets, as I've just started shooting this combination. The pistol was fairly sooty when I was done, but cleaned up easily. Almost no unburned powder in the barrel.

hth,

NetLar
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Old July 16, 2001, 06:29 PM   #10
renaissance7697
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For Netlar

Thank you for your very excellent, documented report.

My guess is that you do this for a living.

Hey guys!

That is the way it is supposed to be done!
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Old July 16, 2001, 11:43 PM   #11
NetLar
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Thanks for your very kind response.

No, I don't do this for a living. Thirty plus years in technical fields (photography, aviation and computing) have reinforced my innate analytical tendencies.

And I've learned, by now, not to mix vocation and avocation. I stopped making pictures for a living when I figured out that it was like the world's oldest profession: First you do it cause it's so much fun. Then you do it for a few friends. Finally, you're doing it for anybody who's got enough money.

Anyhow, the Internet is a wonderful thing, cause we can all learn from each other. Sometimes what to do, sometimes what not....

Here's a target from Sunday, Winchester primers.

There's 11 rounds cause the Chrony didn't sense one. I'd like to claim it's the flyer at the bottom, but probly not.

hth,

NetLar
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Old July 17, 2001, 01:17 PM   #12
renaissance7697
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For Bullet44

I also use:
4.1 grs of titegroup with a 200swc, great accuracy.,
Also light recoil and reliable function with a Kimber .45

But ref your:
>>> "but have not found it any good for
>>> other calibers. "

I have used it in 9mm luger
4.0 titegroup
125 fmj
OAL 1.15

Again I find them to be > light recoil and reasonable accuracy
reliable function in:
SIG 228
Vintage P-08 (german Luger)
and
S&W 5906

Don't know if this is critical to above,
but I run them all through Lee Factory Crimp Dies after taking out the flare with the usual 3 die set seating/taper crimp die.

I do this to remove any bulges inadvertently introduced in the normal loading process, rather than for the "crimp" feature, but who knows?
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Old July 17, 2001, 02:58 PM   #13
bullet44
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renaissance7697,
Thanks for the 9mm info, I also use a lee crimp
die on 9mm, but found the titegroup just dont
give me the accuracy I want. For 9mm I find that
red dot performs great.(cz-75B)
My 45acp load of 4.1grs titegroup/200swc in my
springfield just make one large hole at 45ft.
even makes me look good.
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