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Old July 24, 2001, 10:03 PM   #1
Ed2000
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What would you do?

How would you respond to this situation. You are on a 2 lane road. Two cars have stopped in front of you to talk through their windows (one headed in each direction). You are behind one of them and allow them to talk a few minutes. You finally blow your horn, but they don't move. You blow again, but this time one gets out and points a handgun at you. You have a .357 snub or .45 auto. What do you do? Would it be better to throw your car in reverse and hope not to get hit - if he fires? Would you hit the floorboard for cover and grab for your gun only to lose sight of where he is?

This happened to a guy in my city. He apparently sat there and called 911 on his cell phone. The response from 911 was "so, what do you want us to do about it?"
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Old July 24, 2001, 10:22 PM   #2
CWL
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That's why you have a reverse gear on the car.

If there's heavy traffic and you don't have a clear avenue of rearward escape, I'd go forward into the guy & car. It'll probably make him hesitate & evade -at worse screwing up his shot. If he stands there and "takes it like a man" -that's what the bumper is there for.

Your pistol would be last resort. In a one-on-one (or 2:1), I'd roll out and try to use my vehicle as cover while I found even better cover. He may not show as much aggression after eating my truck, probably be even tamer after seeing me disappear behind my car with a .45.

I'd resort to shooting only if he's fired a shot, and I'm sure of what's downrange. This will give you your "self defense" argument in court later.

Your best option is to stay moving and get out of there as soon as possible. I doubt most thugs have much training hitting moving targets.
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Old July 24, 2001, 10:59 PM   #3
PreserveFreedom
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Depending on where he was standing and if you had enough room to maneuver, ramming him with your car may be the best solution. Since he is pointing a gun at you, any means of deadly force is justified.
 
Old July 24, 2001, 11:27 PM   #4
Spectre
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It depends on which car the gunwielder emerged from. If you may not have time to move backward before taking fire...there's always forward.
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Old July 25, 2001, 08:05 AM   #5
buzz_knox
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Someone points a deadly weapon at me, I'm performing the "indicated response."
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Old July 25, 2001, 08:13 AM   #6
Coronach
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One caveat

In the scenario it is not clear whether or not the gun-wielder has stepped clear of the car. Putting the car in DRIVE and smashing into him and his car is a, IMHO (IANAL) perfectly acceptable response...just make sure in so doing you do not disable your vehicle. At this juncture your car is the most valuable tool at your disposal. It can deliver you from this place of danger to a place of safety.

Plus, exiting the vehicle for a confrontation may or may not jam you up in the eyes of the law, since you have a duty to retreat and your car is a pretty efficient means of doing so.

Mike
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Old July 25, 2001, 04:09 PM   #7
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Good point!

The last dojo I went to, would periodically hold "Spyderco checks". Don't let not having 2 inches of sharp steel endanger your life!
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Old July 25, 2001, 05:19 PM   #8
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Well, before blowing the horn, I would see if there was room on the shoulder or berm to pass. If so, I would do that. If that is not possible, make sure that you have an escape route, then blow your horn and ask if you can pass. If the scenerio describes occurs then try to get out of there, if that is not possible, defense of life follows(naturally).
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Old July 25, 2001, 06:26 PM   #9
Ed2000
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Thanks for the replies. Ya'll brought up some points I haven't thought of as I imagined what I would have done had it happened to me. I never even thought about the air bag issue! It's amazing the way some people want to act tough and bully others. I think they know the law is basically on their side.
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Old July 25, 2001, 08:38 PM   #10
madgrad
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Use reverse and get out of there as quick as possible. If they already got guns trained on you, you don't have the time to pull yours- They'd shoot you as soon as you started pulling your own. Remember, bad roadside ettiquite is not worth your life. Just get a description of thier vehicles and License plate numbers for the police. It will be taken care of.
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Old July 25, 2001, 08:59 PM   #11
Jody Hudson
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Not MY front grill against a back bumper

We seem to have forgotten some basics of modern car design, in addition to the air bags.

The back of a car, thier cars, are far more resistant to crumpling than the front of most cars.

In fact I just purchased a BIG old Buick Park Avenue that had a little fender bender by rear ending another car. Totaled the Buick, so I got it CHEAP.

The front of a modern car is as tender as an egg shell in most cases. My Buick was totaled with a little bump that didn't even set off the air bag. The bumper frame extensions of the car my Buick hit, rode up over the bumber of the Buick and penetrated the plastic front grill, penetrated the aluminum radiator some, and dislocated the battery. The little bender crumpled up both front fenders and the hood as well. In addition it caused several hoses to be cut, including several vacuum hoses, etc. Some wires were cut too.

My buddy, a crashed car restoration expert, got the car for a couple of hundred dollars; fixed it for a thousand (his cost which would have cost me $5,000) and he sold it to me for $3,100. It's a nice comfortable '93 loaded with all the gadgets.

Moral of the story... The BIG HEAVY BUICK Park Avenue was disabled and totaled with a litttle bump that didn't even set off the air bag. Modern cars are NOT for ramming anything.

You'd do better to back up quickly, stay in control of your vehicle and stay low as you do. Get well away and turn around and leave. Call 911 and give them all the data and description you can and DON'T mention YOUR firearm.

Bravado has NO place in modern society. And, actions not based on study and understanding of the issues, laws, physics, etc. are doomed to failure; possibly harm or death.

And, IF the person who blew his horn at those folks in the road had guns pointed at him... the likelyhood is that he was quite rude in his blowing and perhaps added some yelled insults.

Not a full sermon... just some thoughts...
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Old July 25, 2001, 09:38 PM   #12
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Good post. Even 70s cars were not up to much ramming. Save that for the demo derby, or an absolute no-other-choice scenario. Unless, of course, you are ramming a person who has a gun trained on you. Your car will be damaged, but probably not disabled.

Getting gone from that place IS the "indicated response".
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Old July 26, 2001, 07:31 AM   #13
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The driver just sitting there blocking traffic is already telling you that the driver is aggressive and anti-social. You should already be planning your response for violence and be looking for cover and escape routes.

As soon as the driver starts getting out of the car. You know there's going to be a confrontation. It's time to backup and leave now. Don't wait for the handgun to appear. If your blocked by traffic get out and move to cover.
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Old July 27, 2001, 10:51 AM   #14
Jody Hudson
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G3, and others.

Two vehicles parked in the roadway, conversing, is NOT unusal or antagonistic, in many places around the country. In many rural areas, in fact, we call such a practice a business meeting. Those familiar with the area and customs just drive around the parked vehicles. I may be wrong, BUT if such an incident happened in rural areas that I'm familar with all across this country, it would be considered normal.

And, in those same areas, if someone not familiar with the area and practice where to pull up behind those parked vehicles and start laying on the horn, and especially if that person started yelling abusively... The BOYS that were talking in the road might just point a gun, or even come over and pull the horn blower out of the car to give some instruction in country manners and customs. Just a guess...

Rural customs and manners are USUALLY foreign to those from urban areas and the urbanite can find himself severely chastised for rudeness in some rural locals.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

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