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Old July 1, 2001, 07:50 PM   #1
8200 rpm
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AR-15 The Most Versatile Rifle Ever???

-Plinking,
-CQB,
-varmint shooting,
-infantry combat,
-bench shooting,
-home/ranch defense,
-DCM target shooting,
-law enforcement carbine,
-3 gun matches...

-flat trajectory,
-low cost ammo,
-availability of spare parts,
-low recoil to train newbies,
-endless amounts of upper receiver configurations,
-several trigger options...

Can any other rifle do this? AK, Mauser 98, FAL, Win M70, 10/22, Rem M700, SKS
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Old July 1, 2001, 07:59 PM   #2
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What can be done with an AR15 that cant be done with an M14, M1A, or even and M1 Garand?
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Old July 1, 2001, 08:39 PM   #3
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Yeah, I love mine, but gotta go, I think you need a water pail because you're about to get napalmed
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Old July 1, 2001, 08:55 PM   #4
Karsten
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Hey, no need to run just yet....I will agree, AR's are great. When you want to mess up someone day bring an AR
or something like this

But if you cared at all you would send the best



Just have a well rounded collection, .223, .308 and maybe a few 7.62X39.....Just in case

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Old July 1, 2001, 09:05 PM   #5
Rex Feral
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lonegunman- I'm a big fan of the M-14, M1A, and M1 Garand as well, but you have to admit they are too much gun for 99% of varmint and L.E. applications. And I definitely ain't going house-to-house and CQB with an 8 shot mag that can't be topped off.

The AR is a real jack of all trades, it may not be the best rifle available for any one purpose, but it does most things well enough to be my first choice.
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Old July 1, 2001, 09:06 PM   #6
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IMHO the AR is the most versatile weapons system currently in widespread use.
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Old July 1, 2001, 10:06 PM   #7
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Too bad its not the most reliable...

An SUV is "versatile" as far as some folks are concerned.
Mouse guns, mouse cars.
The Ar15 is the SUV of the gun world. Ideal for soccer moms...
:barf:

I find my 30-06 and my 3/4 ton Chevy 4X4 truck very versatile.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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Old July 1, 2001, 10:27 PM   #8
Art Eatman
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Well, I read the list a couple of times, and except for close quarters combat, I see no reason for any particular excitement about either gun or cartridge as compared to a bolt-action .30-'06.

The '06 is a far more versatile cartridge. For instance, a round lead ball and five grains weight of any shotgun or pistol powder make a good squirrel load. Varmint bullets from 80 to 110 grains tend to make a red spray out of jackrabbits and are generally ruinacious on coyotes. 150s or 165s for deer; 180s for elk. 220s for moose, for that matter.

I fail to see any value to "-endless amounts of upper receiver configurations,". I'd rather have my mind all made up before the firefight...And I'd rather have a shotgun, anyway, if it's a home defense situation...

I'd sure hate to have to butt-stroke a close-up fella with an AR-15!

As usual,

Art
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Old July 1, 2001, 10:36 PM   #9
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Hey RPM,

I have two ARs with heavy target barrels, one in 223 and the other in 7.62X39. They're neat to have, I don't get delusional about them. If I could only have one long arm, I would have to go with Art - make it a shotgun with different shells. I think my Mossberg 500 with a 20 inch cyl. bore barrel that holds eight rounds would be my choice. Hey, the AR is cute.

Best wishes,
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Old July 1, 2001, 10:57 PM   #10
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Umm, guys, re: the shotgun argument...reread the topic of the thread. It's "The most versatile RIFLE ever?" not "The most versatile LONGGUN ever?"
Gotta disagree on the 30-06 thing too...yes, it's versatile for hunting, but I wouldn't want to clear a building with it.
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Old July 1, 2001, 10:58 PM   #11
George Hill
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AR-15? I doubt it. You can hunt with it - sure. But not something bigger than 200 pounds... or tough... or carniverous... or armored... or at a distance... I could go on. To be truely Versatile - You need to be able to fire a .30 caliber bullet of various types and weights. You want something that can handle Moose, Bear, Badger, Boar, Chuck, Buck... from 50 to 500.

No - You can't do that with an AR. Sure you could kill a bear with a .223 - if you hit it often enough, but thats not the point of hunting is it?

If versatile means Cops and Cans - sure the AR will do if your not that concerned with reliability. I'll give the AR points for its Ergo and its Accuracy. But thats it.

You want Versatile? I got your versatile right here:



If you are not the Lever Action type - there are several other options. Automatics like the BAR and such. Pump actions, Bolt actions... Truely versatile rifles that you can trust to reach out and do the job.
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Old July 1, 2001, 11:04 PM   #12
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put a 458 socom upper on the AR and make the bears consider the next turn of Shiva's wheel
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Old July 1, 2001, 11:52 PM   #13
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Quite the sh!t stirrer, aren't I? Lot of people just hate AR15's.

As far as lever actions, I don't think there is anything wrong with them for their intended purpose. But come on, can you imagine arming the Marines with them. We'd be the laughing stock of the free world.

Art, you are absolutely correct about the versatility of the 30-06 and having a weapon configured before a fire fight. But surely, I do not think that the AR can do ALL things simultaneouly.

I am just saying is that the AR can be more things than any other single rifle. MODULAR.

Oh, and one more thing to add to my original list...

-Light machinegun. Sure, Colt/Canadian heavy barrel upper, full auto trigger group (w/ Class III, of course), and a bag full of Beta C-mags.
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Old July 2, 2001, 12:51 AM   #14
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The AR probably IS the most versatile weapon on the market. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS THE MOST VERSATILE DESIGN! In fact, theoretically, the FAL can be modified in every way the AR can, but the parts are just not out there for that.
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Old July 2, 2001, 04:52 AM   #15
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I think the Timberwolf Pump 357Mag rifle is. Or the 1894 Marlin.

The reason is, the 357Mag is a man stopper, it will drop anything within 100 yards short of a cape buffalo. It's cheap, it will go in pistols as well as rifles, and you can carry a revolver + a rifle with the same round; in a rifle though, the round becomes a whole new badboy.

I'm a big fan of the 357Mag.

Albert
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Old July 2, 2001, 05:48 AM   #16
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ARs? From what little I post on this forum it should by now already be known that I love the things.





For what can't be done with a 223Rem AR15 or the wide range of custom chamberings based off of that magazine size and lower receiver, I've got my AR10 for extended versatility.



Can't wait to get one of those Tromix uppers, I'm thinking about either a 440Corbon or a 50AE upper where those two chamberings are approaching 45-70 level power after coming out of an 18-20 inch barrel.


The AR10 is gonna have a few chamberings done up some day, 243Winchester is planned as well as a 260Rem upper. And now people are looking into the possibility of a 300Winchester Short Magnum chambering for the AR10 so that should get really interesting as well.




As far as the whole versatility thing. I just look at the AR family as the Thompson Contender or Encore of the semiauto world. The similarity is striking in that respect. Then ofcourse there's the ability of taking one lower receiver from a defensive carbine setup to a long range varmint setup with just the simple switching of upper assemblies, I love that fact.


Yep, definitely love the AR design. Mine have proven to be quite reliable too.
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Old July 2, 2001, 08:00 AM   #17
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It is a weapon system that has been in continuous use for, what, almost 40 years now? More than 40? Something like that. If it was NOT exceedingly versatile, I would be shocked. Basically, the more mature the system (this works for planes, too...look at what the B-52 airframe has been made to do...high level penetration, low level penetration, nuclear bombing, conventional bombing, cruise missile carrier, shipkiller with 16 harpoon missiles, etc etc etc), the more bugs have been worked out and the more tasks it has been modified to perform.

I'll second what Dangus said on the FAL...if .308 had not fallen out of favor, I'll bet it would be just as heavily modified and flexible.

Mike
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Old July 2, 2001, 09:32 AM   #18
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a 64 gr. bullet traveling at 3100+ fps have enough power for long range hunting and for penetrating plenty of thick surfaces? Why wouldn't it? I thought they used .223 rifles in some of the wars too.,..
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Old July 2, 2001, 11:13 AM   #19
George Hill
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You dont like Levers?
Fine: How about the Remington 7400?

Or what about the sexy Browning BAR?

Or the forgoten HK SL7


There are many options for truely versatile rifles that are in seriousely versatile calibers.
Being able to bolt on aftermarket gadgets onto your rifle with out a gunsmith is not the defining trait of a versatile rifle. Gimme a break. If that was true with cars then the Honda Civic and the Ford Mustang are the Most Versatile Cars you could buy! Never mind they lack the capacity and power of something truelly versatile like an F150... Jeep Wagoneer... Toyota Tundra... Land Rover Discovery or Defender... Even a little S-10 or Ranger.
"Oh the AR is MODULAR!" Yeah - but not by design - but by creative aftermarketers making a buck and magazines that sell subscriptions and advertising trying to convince you that your nice light little handy toy .223 just has to have so many bolt on devices that it can often double in weight, and become awkward to use. Back to a car analogy - its more of an East LA Low Rider than a versatile rifle.
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Old July 2, 2001, 11:15 AM   #20
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Old July 2, 2001, 11:21 AM   #21
George Hill
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How about one in .30-06? Try the HK940:


Or even better - take a look at the following link:
The SLB 2000 available in Cals: 6.5 x 55/7 x 64/.308 Winchester/.30-06 Springfield/.300 Winchester Mag./8 x 57 IS/9.3 x 62. Nice! Just hope this one gets imported!

http://www.hkpro.com/slb2000.htm
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Old July 2, 2001, 12:16 PM   #22
Art Eatman
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RikWriter, of the millions of active gun owners in the U.S., how many are ever gonna have to clear a building?

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of probable uses, pragmatic needs. For 99% of "normal" uses, any para-military weapon is pretty much like the unnecessary appendages on the proverbial bull.

I see nothing wrong with the '06 for clearing a building (worked okay in the ETO); I just wouldn't want a bolt-action for such a use. I note that a shotgun would serve quite well, once you're inside...

Granting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I personally have the individual opinion that the black plastic para-military stuff is yougly. Right at being coyote-ugly.

, Art
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Old July 2, 2001, 02:23 PM   #23
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I can convert my 30-06 bolt gun to a semi auto with the addition of a Pedersen device.
Can you convert your AR to a bolt gun? NOT.


I can beat your AR in half with my bolt gun, and it will still function.
You can break an AR buttstroking a cockroach.

I have a wider selection of bullets, greater range and killing power.
The AR is effectively out of gas at 300 yards.

I can defeat 1" plate armor at 100 yards with ball ammo.

I can use a scope without needing to peel off and replace my upper or carry handle, or add a block of plastic to the stock so I can see through it.

I can clear malfs by opening the bolt.
AR users need to disassemble their weapon.

ARs suck.
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Old July 2, 2001, 02:40 PM   #24
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The AR is just hyped because there is so much after-market stuff for
it.

Yet the SIG 550 is superior in many ways:

- I can turn it into a bolt gun (yea, you can turn off the gas system)
- It has a collapsible buttstock.
- low profile sights (if your head sticks out too far, you're DEAD)
- tritium sights are an original feature
- removable triggerguard
- it's damn precise, and still looks military
- better gas system than the AR, less prone to jamming when really
dirty
- integrated bi-pod
- you can clamp mags together by the studs (the AR mags need a special
clamp for this)
- folding triggerguard for winter firing

And a lot more I'm not thinking about.

If you need short versions, get a SIG 552 SWAT, it will be shorter
than any CQB AR. Get a 550 sniper, you will have a real precision
weapon. Get the 550 if you want the real feeling.
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Old July 2, 2001, 04:32 PM   #25
uglygun
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DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF MY BABIES! I WON"T HAVE IT!




Hehe, but seriously given the opportunity to only have to goto the dealer to sign the paper work once for a firearm that can be transformed into a great many configurations as well as chamberings while using the same base platform for all variants is quite a cool thing.



It's expensive to play the game that's for sure. But my custom AR15 is seriously the most fun squirrel gun in existance and I don't think it's possible to find a rifle more perfectly suited to the job than a properly configured AR15. I've made hits at 400 yards with the rifle and it's accurate enough for hits at 500 and beyond but I'm just not a good enough shooter yet to make hits at the 500 yard line, I've kicked dirt in their faces and put bullets under their bellies though on countless occasions.

I also have an adjustable gas system on my custom AR, if I should want to turn it into a straight pull bolt action then I can do it with the simple turn of a screw in the gas block.



Price of the rifle system is it's most prohibitive feature. By the time you get a base AR15 system(I always go flattop for VERY simple addition of a scope) and then grab an additional upper or two, you've got in your hands one very expensive rifle. There isn't really any "cheap" AR15, even the ones that are junk coming from an outfit like ASA or Hesse aren't really all that cheap.




mussi, if I could have gotten a SIG 550 type for the collection I WOULD HAVE! Too rare of a bird in the US and I live in Ca. so I'm screwed on both counts.


MAD DOG, I'll let you know how nasty my AR10 is if I manage to get it chambered in 300WSM. It's not an AR15 but it is still an AR type. Also like my AR10 just because of the fact that it shares magazines with the M1A, now when I get an M1A some day I'll already have magazines for it.
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