Kel Tec SU16 vs AR 15?

gilfo · April 23, 2012, 07:53 PM

Do you think that the Kel Tec is as good as a comparably priced AR.
Why and why not?

Thanks

AK103K · April 23, 2012, 08:27 PM

I had a SU16 when they first came out. It shot OK (with a red dot mounted), and for the most part worked OK (it had issues with GI mags), but its not really meant for day to day use. Its more of a put it up behind the seat and use it in an emergency type thing.

The AR's are much more versatile and robust (never thought Id ever use AR and robust in the same sentence

). There really inst any comparison between the two.

Hansam · April 23, 2012, 08:49 PM

I'd go with an AR over the Kel Tec SU16 any day of the week or every day of the week.

The AR wins over the SU16 in the following areas:

1. Ease of use
2. Reliability
3. Ease of repair
4. Ease of customization
5. Availability of parts
6. Ease of deployment for use
7. Ergonomics
8. Aesthetics

The SU16 wins over the AR in the following areas:

1. Space consumption for stowage.

Basically if you want a truck gun that may see use once in a while and need to conserve space then get the SU...

If you want a rifle you can take, use and abuse day in and day out... and if a part wears out on you its easily replaced with readily available parts... and will be robust enough to be heavily used in social work or SHTF work or whatever you want to do with it then get an AR.

semi_problomatic · April 24, 2012, 07:22 AM

Well....no. Where are you going to find a $500 AR?

Hansam · April 24, 2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Well....no. Where are you going to find a $500 AR?

Well I just disregarded that portion of the original post - but maybe the OP isn't talking about a $500 AR. Maybe he's talking about a $900 SU16?

Technosavant · April 24, 2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Well....no. Where are you going to find a $500 AR?

This is what I was thinking. While the SU-16 is nowhere near as good as a decent AR-15, for the price, a decent AR-15 will be another few hundred bucks. So I'd have to say at $500 it's all about the SU-16, but even then I'd give a Mini-14 a good hard look.

semi_problomatic · April 24, 2012, 11:40 AM

$500 is a high price for a keltec anyway. You can probably find them between $300-$400. I like the idea behind them, its a great concept. If you want a survival rifle. But its not designed for, nor in the same league as an M4gery. Its not priced that way either. Can we compare a pinto with an equally priced corvette? Why yes...the two wheels and the radio you get that equal the price of the pinto will probably not take you nearly as far as you imagined.

mxracr · April 24, 2012, 04:06 PM

You can get a complete upper on GB for $300. One of the complete polymer lowers for $100. BCG and charging handle for about $125. May not be a Colt but it is an AR and would probably beat a KelTec any day as far as quality. Just my opinion.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · April 26, 2012, 08:29 PM

I saw the plastic stock on the Kel-tec actually break in half on an early model.

Tanked a guy in an AR class and he had to borrow my AR for a bit while the Instructor dug up a substituted gun for him.

Bamashooter · April 27, 2012, 06:06 PM

Wal-mart sells a DPMS for $599+tax. Thats about as cheap as I have seen a complete rifle. I just dont see the SU16 holding up to alot of use without some issues.

**4V50 Gary** · April 27, 2012, 06:14 PM

AR > KelTec except in states that won't let you buy an AR.

kozak6 · April 28, 2012, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Where are you going to find a $500 AR?

And where are you going to find a $500 SU16? Keltec's extreme production problems have led to considerable scarcity, which has caused the price to climb to well into the range of an AR-15. If you can find one.

For the same price (or less!), you might as well buy the AR.

semi_problomatic · April 28, 2012, 08:12 AM

Just a quick search online has keltecs priced under $500. Had a guy offer me one for $300. Guess I didn't know they were rare.

MoBart · April 30, 2012, 12:45 PM

I had a kel-tek when they first came out to. Cool little.rifle, didnt shoot bad at all, bjt it had terrible extracor problems. Like a stuck caseing roughly 1/100 rounds. The barrell was.entirly to thin for anything but a few rounds at a time. But I loved in a very rual county at the time, on he edge of a state property, it was lihjt and handy and nice carrying in walking around, and aside from the extracor issue I never had anything bad happen. For the money its a great carbine for most purposes. If your wanting to shoot a coupk hundred rounds at a time a couple times a month, it is worth the extra time and or money to.get the AR or consiser the Mini. Both are deffintly stronger designs with long proven success.

MoBart · April 30, 2012, 12:47 PM

Oh, by the way, I had mine while still on active duty, it.never.fed from anything but mil spec/issued 30 round M16 mags, and I never d any issues in that area at all.

zombieslayer · April 30, 2012, 08:39 PM

As much as I dislike the AR- I'd take one over the KelTec any day. Just my 2¢

cookie5 · May 1, 2012, 12:16 AM

The Keltec su16 with the heavy threaded barrel is an interesting rifle . It is light and shoots pretty good and works better than a bottom end AR15. Though it is not an AR and will not compare to a top end AR.

tahunua001 · May 1, 2012, 12:35 AM

ar15 without a doubt.
more accurate
more reliable
HUGE supply of replacement parts available
easier to work on
more ergonomic

AR wins again

semi_problomatic · May 1, 2012, 12:46 PM

Unless you find a REALLY good deal, a theoretical $500 AR probably directly compares to the keltec. With a win more for the keltec as far as innovations go. By the time you correct all the problems you've place in a $500 AR you'll probably have replaced everything and be at 3x the cost of the keltec. It just depends on your needs and wants.

AK103K · May 1, 2012, 06:03 PM

My NIB $225 Colt SP1 has run fine for 38 years and many, many, tens of thousands of rounds, and its still on all its original parts.

It still far outlasted my SU16.

semi_problomatic · May 1, 2012, 08:49 PM

$225 in 1974 averages to $1,030 today...

tahunua001 · May 2, 2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Unless you find a REALLY good deal, a theoretical $500 AR probably directly compares to the keltec. With a win more for the keltec as far as innovations go. By the time you correct all the problems you've place in a $500 AR you'll probably have replaced everything and be at 3x the cost of the keltec. It just depends on your needs and wants.

tell that to anyone who has ever bought a PSA15 an M&P15 or a sportical. all of those are 600 dollar rifles and when you consider that all those 500 dollar SU16s are wholesale prices and still require about 50 dollars in FFLs and S&H you are pretty much paying the exact same amount. I have a dpms sportical and not one of the parts that I have replaced was do to a failure, it was an aesthetic decision. the SU16 is not even in the same area code as an AR15 even if you start getting into the whole plastic models that are coming out. if you offered me a model1 upper on a new frontier lower($450) or a SU16($550) I would take the new frontier. at least with them when stuff breaks I dont have to go to the factory for repairs, I can do everything on my bedroom floor.

PT-92 · May 4, 2012, 09:54 PM

I agree with the majority in that I would go with the AR (that WallyWorld deal looks hard to beat in the current "pre-election frenzy" we are witnessing yet again

). Don't get me wrong, I love Kel-Tec (my main CCW is their P11 and I have a couple of Sub-2000's all of which I can describe as good reliable frugal hardware) but unless I could get a really good deal I would pass.

But I like the previous post that referred to the possibility of a Mini-14 if one could be had at a decent price (if you are real fortunate, maybe <$600 but I have a tendency to dream...)?

-Cheers

semi_problomatic · May 5, 2012, 01:00 AM

I'm not sure how buying parts and putting things together beats a lifetime warrenty... But ok.

Whats the gun going to be used for? Thats always the biggest question.

RAMZ707 · May 24, 2012, 05:36 PM

I own a kel Tec su16, mini14 and have shot numerous ar15's. My $500 dollar kel Tec shoots more accurately than my mini14 and cost me $300 less! I like the fact that the su16 uses ar15 mags and is super light weight. All the ar15's that I have shot have been nice carbines to shoot but they are not nearly as cost effective as a kel tec or mini14. I have put around 4000 rounds through my kel Tec without any malfunctions and around 10000 rounds through my mini14 with at least 20-30 stove pipes and feed issues! Most my friends bought ar's and out of all of those ar's I have shot only one had any feed issues and only one was under $1500 coincidence????

April 23, 2012, 07:53 PM	#1
gilfo Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Posts: 268	Kel Tec SU16 vs AR 15? Do you think that the Kel Tec is as good as a comparably priced AR. Why and why not? Thanks

April 23, 2012, 08:27 PM	#2
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade Posts: 7,071	I had a SU16 when they first came out. It shot OK (with a red dot mounted), and for the most part worked OK (it had issues with GI mags), but its not really meant for day to day use. Its more of a put it up behind the seat and use it in an emergency type thing. The AR's are much more versatile and robust (never thought Id ever use AR and robust in the same sentence ). There really inst any comparison between the two. __________________ “The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Zeitgeist - The movie

April 23, 2012, 08:49 PM	#3
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 746	I'd go with an AR over the Kel Tec SU16 any day of the week or every day of the week. The AR wins over the SU16 in the following areas: 1. Ease of use 2. Reliability 3. Ease of repair 4. Ease of customization 5. Availability of parts 6. Ease of deployment for use 7. Ergonomics 8. Aesthetics The SU16 wins over the AR in the following areas: 1. Space consumption for stowage. Basically if you want a truck gun that may see use once in a while and need to conserve space then get the SU... If you want a rifle you can take, use and abuse day in and day out... and if a part wears out on you its easily replaced with readily available parts... and will be robust enough to be heavily used in social work or SHTF work or whatever you want to do with it then get an AR. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

April 24, 2012, 07:22 AM	#4
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	Well....no. Where are you going to find a $500 AR? __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

April 24, 2012, 11:40 AM	#7
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	$500 is a high price for a keltec anyway. You can probably find them between $300-$400. I like the idea behind them, its a great concept. If you want a survival rifle. But its not designed for, nor in the same league as an M4gery. Its not priced that way either. Can we compare a pinto with an equally priced corvette? Why yes...the two wheels and the radio you get that equal the price of the pinto will probably not take you nearly as far as you imagined. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

April 24, 2012, 04:06 PM	#8
mxracr Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 85	You can get a complete upper on GB for $300. One of the complete polymer lowers for $100. BCG and charging handle for about $125. May not be a Colt but it is an AR and would probably beat a KelTec any day as far as quality. Just my opinion.

April 26, 2012, 08:29 PM	#9
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,145	I saw the plastic stock on the Kel-tec actually break in half on an early model. Tanked a guy in an AR class and he had to borrow my AR for a bit while the Instructor dug up a substituted gun for him. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

April 27, 2012, 06:06 PM	#10
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,672	Wal-mart sells a DPMS for $599+tax. Thats about as cheap as I have seen a complete rifle. I just dont see the SU16 holding up to alot of use without some issues.

April 27, 2012, 06:14 PM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 15,418	AR > KelTec except in states that won't let you buy an AR. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 28, 2012, 08:12 AM	#13
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	Just a quick search online has keltecs priced under $500. Had a guy offer me one for $300. Guess I didn't know they were rare. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

April 30, 2012, 12:45 PM	#14
MoBart Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Posts: 218	I had a kel-tek when they first came out to. Cool little.rifle, didnt shoot bad at all, bjt it had terrible extracor problems. Like a stuck caseing roughly 1/100 rounds. The barrell was.entirly to thin for anything but a few rounds at a time. But I loved in a very rual county at the time, on he edge of a state property, it was lihjt and handy and nice carrying in walking around, and aside from the extracor issue I never had anything bad happen. For the money its a great carbine for most purposes. If your wanting to shoot a coupk hundred rounds at a time a couple times a month, it is worth the extra time and or money to.get the AR or consiser the Mini. Both are deffintly stronger designs with long proven success.

April 30, 2012, 12:47 PM	#15
MoBart Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Posts: 218	Oh, by the way, I had mine while still on active duty, it.never.fed from anything but mil spec/issued 30 round M16 mags, and I never d any issues in that area at all.

April 30, 2012, 08:39 PM	#16
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,181	As much as I dislike the AR- I'd take one over the KelTec any day. Just my 2¢ __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

May 1, 2012, 12:16 AM	#17
cookie5 Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2011 Posts: 137	The Keltec su16 with the heavy threaded barrel is an interesting rifle . It is light and shoots pretty good and works better than a bottom end AR15. Though it is not an AR and will not compare to a top end AR.

May 1, 2012, 12:35 AM	#18
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 3,604	ar15 without a doubt. more accurate more reliable HUGE supply of replacement parts available easier to work on more ergonomic AR wins again __________________ all guns lost in a tragic smelting accident. I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.

May 1, 2012, 12:46 PM	#19
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	Unless you find a REALLY good deal, a theoretical $500 AR probably directly compares to the keltec. With a win more for the keltec as far as innovations go. By the time you correct all the problems you've place in a $500 AR you'll probably have replaced everything and be at 3x the cost of the keltec. It just depends on your needs and wants. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

May 1, 2012, 06:03 PM	#20
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade Posts: 7,071	My NIB $225 Colt SP1 has run fine for 38 years and many, many, tens of thousands of rounds, and its still on all its original parts. It still far outlasted my SU16. __________________ “The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Zeitgeist - The movie

May 1, 2012, 08:49 PM	#21
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	$225 in 1974 averages to $1,030 today... __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

May 4, 2012, 09:54 PM	#23
PT-92 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2007 Location: "Undisclosed Bunker" Posts: 1,296	I agree with the majority in that I would go with the AR (that WallyWorld deal looks hard to beat in the current "pre-election frenzy" we are witnessing yet again ). Don't get me wrong, I love Kel-Tec (my main CCW is their P11 and I have a couple of Sub-2000's all of which I can describe as good reliable frugal hardware) but unless I could get a really good deal I would pass. But I like the previous post that referred to the possibility of a Mini-14 if one could be had at a decent price (if you are real fortunate, maybe <$600 but I have a tendency to dream...)? -Cheers __________________ NRA Life Member “A free people ought...to be armed..." ―George Washington

May 5, 2012, 01:00 AM	#24
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 512	I'm not sure how buying parts and putting things together beats a lifetime warrenty... But ok. Whats the gun going to be used for? Thats always the biggest question. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

May 24, 2012, 05:36 PM	#25
RAMZ707 Member Join Date: May 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 24	I own a kel Tec su16, mini14 and have shot numerous ar15's. My $500 dollar kel Tec shoots more accurately than my mini14 and cost me $300 less! I like the fact that the su16 uses ar15 mags and is super light weight. All the ar15's that I have shot have been nice carbines to shoot but they are not nearly as cost effective as a kel tec or mini14. I have put around 4000 rounds through my kel Tec without any malfunctions and around 10000 rounds through my mini14 with at least 20-30 stove pipes and feed issues! Most my friends bought ar's and out of all of those ar's I have shot only one had any feed issues and only one was under $1500 coincidence????