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Old June 5, 2001, 11:46 PM   #1
m16a2223
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Can someone tell me the differences between an 870 express and more expensive 870s? thanks m16
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Old June 6, 2001, 01:57 AM   #2
Romulus
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Yes, I can...

The 870 Express is poorly finished, a crude heavy bead blasting and a cheap hot dip bluing...

Wingmasters and Police magnums are polished to a greater or lesser degree, then a cheap hot dip bluing...

Express models are uglier and cruder, but given the flimsiness of the 870 receiver, I appreciate the extra metal not sacrificed to a half-ass polish job...and Express models are a WHOLE lot cheaper: more gun for less money

If I had to go back, I'd get another express and forego the Police Magnum...
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Old June 6, 2001, 08:56 AM   #3
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Don't forget the genuine hardwood stock with its lacquer-like paint job on the Express. I've had mine since '93 and still like it for what it is. Especially since I put a Pachmayr recoil pad on it.

John
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Old June 6, 2001, 09:45 AM   #4
Kharn
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Johnbt: Dont you mean the Wingmaster? My Express (Purchased 1/01) has just plain wood for the forearm and stock, no lacquer or varnish of any type that I can tell.

Kharn
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Old June 6, 2001, 09:57 AM   #5
Dave McC
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Rom, just because the receiver is thin, it doesn't have to be flimsy. I'd have heard if the receivers were cracking, after 4 million units and 50 years, we'd definitely know if they were cracking.

And my older Wingmasters have handled short magnums, steel shot, lots of buck, lots of slugs, and plenty of barnburner turkey loads. My pheasant load of choice runs 1 1/4 oz, Max dram, and kicks about as much as the buck and slugs. If ANYTHING was flimsy about that 870, it'd have gone back to Big Green with Nastygram attached long ago.

An 870 Express is not quite the equivalent of a Wingmaster, but it's still ahead of most other pumps,including the Browning stuff that's priced way more...
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Old June 6, 2001, 10:41 AM   #6
DAVID NANCARROW
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....makes me wonder just what constitutes a sturdy pump 12 gauge? Used them for over 40 years, no malfunctions, certainly no cracked receivers, no problems at all. Shot trap and skeet with one years ago and several thousand rounds couldn't break it. Same weapon used on ducks and geese (in my dummy days, I thought you had to use 3 inch magnums!) and still nothing. Have an express model now in addition-same reliability. Went crazy one day and bought a Mossberg which broke the spotwelds on the action bars inside of 100 rounds. Sold it to a neighbor for $40 and learned my lesson. Would consider a Winchester pump-light and seems to be reliable.
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Old June 6, 2001, 11:58 AM   #7
Romulus
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Dave, it's bending more than cracking that worries me. Just look at the metal where the action bars slide into the receiver...the sheet metal on my old Ford Pinto was thicker. I don't know if Remington has always milled a flat on the top of the receiver on Police models: prettier for sure, but look at how thin the metal gets where the barrel joins the receiver...just to get a pretty flat in there...

Don't get me wrong, I love my old Express like I would a homely child, I am disappointed in my new Police...maybe I am just going through an anti-Remington phase for the reasons we all have discussed on other threads.
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Old June 6, 2001, 12:04 PM   #8
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I've had two barrels split on 870's after a rather succesful day on the dove field. I dont know what caused that, but I did here Remington had had problems with some barrels a few years ago. I have an express new in '92 with near ten thousand, and a Wingmaster from the seventies that has gobs more of everything fired through it, and it has been flawless since my dad gave it to me. The express shoots just as good as the Wingmaster, just not the fancy decor or tight feeling of the wingmaster. The Wingmaster looks good on those big company paid hunts.
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Old June 6, 2001, 12:22 PM   #9
DAVID NANCARROW
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Romulus-I guess I'd be concerned about it too, but I've never really looked at a police model before. I bought an early express model and this thing locks up tighter than a wingmaster, to the point where I had to take a swiss file and take .001 off the lug so it would not lock up when it got hot! Little bit peeved about it, but 10 years later, it still locks very securely.
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Old June 6, 2001, 06:24 PM   #10
Dave McC
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Rom, the pressure is taken up more by the bbl extension and bolt, the receiver basically positions those parts.

As for bbls busting, there was a class action suit about some bbls maybe 10-15 years ago, if memory serves. Considering the huge amount of 870s made,the amount of dud parts speaks well for both the design and QC,IMO....
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Old June 6, 2001, 07:06 PM   #11
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Kharn,

I knocked some of the finish off of my '93 Express Magnum somewhere between the boat and the blind and the only thing that would remove the rest of it was either laquer thinner or acetome, I can't remember which. None of the 3 or 4 paint removers I had would touch it.

I even called Remington once to see about getting a little bottle of touch-up finish. They said that I needed to send the stock back and wouldn't even tell me what the finish was or what would dissolve it.

I haven't looked at the new ones.

John

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Old June 6, 2001, 07:38 PM   #12
m16a2223
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Thanks guys... I guess what I really wanted to know is if the materals were the same and I think thats' been answered. Ive owned several 870s of different configs and I opine that it is the best pump shotgun available,but not by a huge margin.
Another question I have is about the new *gnashing teeth* safty. Can I just install an old style, or were there other changes made?
Thanks, m16
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Old June 6, 2001, 10:12 PM   #13
Dfariswheel
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Actually, I think the finish on the Express model is a powder-coat. Mine seems to stand up quite well.

The real differences between Express's amd Wingmaster's:
Powder coat vs. blueing.
Plastic trigger group vs. aluminum.
Different method of retaining the magazine spring.
Plain sighting flat on the receiver vs. Matted.
"Pisswood" stock vs. walnut.
Black finished bolt vs. chrome.

I don't know about today, but years ago, Remington heavily advertised their stock finishes as the Remington "bowling pin" finish. These do take some really agressive removers. Brownell's sell a special remover just for Remington's.

The Express is just a "plain-jane" version designed to keep Remington's prices competative with Winchester and Mossberg.
I've never detected any difference in strength or durability
between the Express and Wingmaster. The materials used in the receiver, bolt, barrel, and action bars, appears to be the same.
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Old June 7, 2001, 04:06 PM   #14
dick w. holliday
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"Pisswood"....How dare you ...i know for a fact that Remington uses two different types of wood for the "Express" guns.....The forearms are "Pussywillow" and the stocks are made from a slab off the "Sh*thouse". I understand that the latter are getting to be in short short supply due to all the modern conveiniences around....PS i've got a new one in the box that i haven't even put together....it is one of those 35 or 40 guns you just have to have.....Love Mine....Take a kid shooting....Dick
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Old June 7, 2001, 04:21 PM   #15
E. BeauBeaux
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Some part's are different, would have to look at the book, I have the Police Mag I used when I was a reserve. I do remember reading about certain part's but will need to look it up to say which ones.
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Old June 7, 2001, 07:59 PM   #16
fed168
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I got my Express back in 1987. My first shotgun, and the only one I have kept over the years of owning different ones. Never have I had any problems for it, and it takes kindly to anything I shoot through it.
I remember a couple years ago my father getting information on the class action lawsuit, I think he got back small change in return.
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Old June 7, 2001, 11:24 PM   #17
Dfariswheel
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I was part of the famous class-action law suit, and my Remington was an 870P police model!!
As I recall, I got nickles and dimes, and the lawyers who were actually responsible for the suit got millions. This is the usual result of class-action suits, which are really lawyer-enrichment projects.

Sorry about he mis-statement about "pisswood". I ment to say Full-figured Southern Arkansas Pisswood.
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Old June 9, 2001, 09:19 AM   #18
fed168
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The other thing I enjoy about my Express is the deal that came with it. The guy at K Mart put it in the wrong box, and accidentally gave me three extra chokes.
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Old June 10, 2001, 11:43 AM   #19
TimWilson
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Romulus said:
Quote:
given the flimsiness of the 870 receiver
Man, whatever you're smoking has seriously distorted your view of reality!!!!!!!

Tim W.
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Old June 10, 2001, 03:09 PM   #20
Romulus
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Tim, I smoke nada thing, but I read other members' posts carefully before replying, and what's more, I OBSERVE, since I refuse to take common wisdom for granted.

Have you looked carefully at the 870 receiver in the areas I described? Do they look heavy-metal to you? Have you compared these with, say, their Ithaca analog? Now there's a reciver with meat!!!
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Old June 12, 2001, 10:34 PM   #21
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I was going to stay out of this one since it's nothing but a rehash of the same subject covered many times before, but Rom's comment about the Ithaca 37 caught my attention.

1. The Police Magnums and Wingmasters have been made with that groove in the top of the receiver since day one. There have been no failures in that area that I am aware of. If it was a problem area, we all would have heard about it long ago.

2. If you take a look at the top of your Ithaca receiver you will see a groove running for most of it's length. The extractor rides in this groove and it is so thin that you can't drill and tap it to mount a ghost ring rear sight. Again, no failures in this area.

3. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they are not out to get you. Quit worrying.
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Old June 13, 2001, 03:36 AM   #22
Romulus
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DML, sound argument, thank you...I actually feel a little better about my recent purchase.
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