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Old May 10, 2001, 08:23 PM   #1
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I am curious as to the ballistics of these cartridges. Which one is more powerful? I tried a .454 Casull and I thought the recoil was horrendous. Of course, the person or animal on the other side of the barrel is in far worse shape. Anyone knowedgable about these handcannons?
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Old May 10, 2001, 08:40 PM   #2
Daniel Watters
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I have fired Ruger Redhawks converted by Hamilton Bowen to .475 Linebaugh and .500 Linebaugh. Both revolvers were fitted with full underlug barrels, 6" and 4" respectively. The .500 with full-power Buffalo Bore ammo lifted as much in recoil as the Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull with Winchester ammo. However, the .500 did not have the sudden and painful torque of the .454 Casull. The full-power .475 loads were even easier to shoot than the .500, but this was likely due to the individual gun weights.

The .475 'training' loads from Buffalo Bore were really quite pleasant.
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Old May 11, 2001, 02:52 AM   #3
Alaska Roy
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454 Casull & Linebaugh Comparisons-

I found a site http://www.realguns.com that has a online calculator for recoil and according to that my 454, .475 and .500 all generate about 65 lbs of free recoil, the trouble with math is you just can't trust it. Caliber size does make a difference with bullet weight and velocity the same, for an example I'll use a 410 gn bullet at 1500fps. In the 454 Casull it's a violent twisting of the wrist and arm, in the .475 Linebaugh it's a slower but more violent shove and twisting, about 30% more, then comes the .500 Linebaugh, loaded to this level nobody really wants to shoot it more than twice. When shooting from the Keith sitting position with a tipped over shooting bench for back support your vertigo is affected (nausia) with a couple cylinders fired with both Linebaughs. Somehow puking and shooting just don't go together..Roy
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Old May 11, 2001, 09:25 AM   #4
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Personally, I won't shoot a .500 Linebaugh.

Several of my friends who are big bore fanatics (they shoot full power .475'sa for fun) have managed to dent their hats or cut their heads with .500 Linebaugh revolvers.

To me, after a few cylinderfuls of full power .475 hunting ammo, full power .454 loads were mild and just what the doctor ordered to fight off the flinchies.

A .500 Linebaugh five shooter is just a bit more fun than I can tolerate. I will let you guys tell me how much fun they are.

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Old May 11, 2001, 10:28 AM   #5
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...confused again....

I'm not quite sure how the term 'FUN' fits in when talking about plinking around with a handgun designed for bringing down Two Ton animals with one shot. IMHO, the practice sessions would be too short and preclude obtaining the
confidence required to fire on tusked and growling beasts.
It would seem to me that there are few men who could handle
these thunder-guns in a life threatning situations.

If a .454 isn't bid enough I don't want to go with a handgun
only. A heavybarreled shotgun w/slugs OR a .416 up would be my cup of tea, thank you very much.

Still use my wrists as Designed dewey.
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Old May 11, 2001, 10:00 PM   #6
Craig Luna
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Doc, what are you terming "full power .454 loads "?

-CAL
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Old May 11, 2001, 10:24 PM   #7
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Call me a wimp if you will, but after firing a 454 twice I'll stick with my weenie .44 mag. I remember there was a time when this was considered a powerful handgun. I think it was way back when Clint Eastwood was a bad*** on the bigscreen.
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Old May 11, 2001, 10:26 PM   #8
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I agree Rock_Jock. I felt the .454 Casull had too much recoil for me as well. Since I don't live in Grizzly country, I think I can get by with a .44 magnum.
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Old May 11, 2001, 10:45 PM   #9
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Craig:

I found some crazy rich dudes who hunt in Africa and made loads for the .454. I thought I remember seeing a load something like 360 or 410 giving off a tad over 2000 me.
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Old May 11, 2001, 11:16 PM   #10
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The .
454 loads I was shooting were 300 gr. JHPs at about 1500 fps.

Not mazimum loads but full blown hunting loads, not plinkers.

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Old May 11, 2001, 11:44 PM   #11
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Well, Doc...

...that load is good for 1500 ft.lbs of ME.

That's painful in some rifles; in a revolver...well, what the heck. Don't shoot it anymore than you want.

BTW, if you venture north, we can borrow a .500 Linebaugh from my favorite gunsmith and check out the recoil at the nearest outdoor range.

For some reason, nobody with an indoor range wants us shooting that custom Ruger. Can't imagine why...
...probably has something to do with not being able to offer range ammo in that caliber.
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Old May 12, 2001, 01:01 AM   #12
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Zander,

I am going to be in Nashville the week of Independence Day. I will be glad to watch you shoot that monster. I'll stick to .45's and smaller thank you.

Doc Hudson
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Old May 12, 2001, 12:47 PM   #13
Craig Luna
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Doc, I was just curious because even the Corbon 454s shooting 360s@1500 shouldn't be anything close to mild when even compared to a 475 (not to mention 454 handloads).

Yes 300@1500 are indeed very mild in comparison especially since a std load of mine in the 44Mag hovers right below that mark (and my heavy "not insane" loads are doing ~1550fps from the 7.5inch SuperRedhawk).


-CAL

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Old May 12, 2001, 07:15 PM   #14
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Get a .480 Ruger, 80% of power, 50% of recoil. I read Taurus was going to make one in their Raging Bull frame.
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Old May 13, 2001, 01:05 AM   #15
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I've shot hot loads in my 45 Blackhawk, plus full power 44 magnums, and though they are quite tolerable, I can't imagine anyone wanting to shoot something with more recoil!

You may get away with that kind of wrist impact for a while, but I suspect it will do you permanent damage over the long haul, if not sooner!

Remember that soft white squishy stuff between your bones? Believe me, it will fracture and tear with that kind of abuse, and no one can accurately predict just how much your joints can take!

Please be careful, and don't use those big bore, full power, bone crushing loads, for practice or plinking. It may be fun now, but years from now, you could pay a very high price for the kicks of recoil!

Bill
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Old May 13, 2001, 10:29 PM   #16
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I remember when the .44 mag was THE revolver for big and dangerous game. I got mine for griz pro. Sure, bigger is usually better for griz, but mine gives me the peice of mind that I need when hiking. If I was SURE I'd have a run-in with an angry bruin, then I'd have my 12 gauge slug gun along. I did want a .454, but after careful consideration and reading the posts of many on this board, I don't think I want to subject my wrist to that kind of damage. My .44 will do fine...
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Old May 14, 2001, 12:45 AM   #17
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I know that there will be many who will disagree, but I truly doubt that a .454 can be made to do anything a .44 Remmag can not be loaded to do.

Doc Hudson
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Old May 14, 2001, 05:48 PM   #18
Craig Luna
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Quote:
I remember when the .44 mag was THE revolver for big and dangerous game. I got mine for griz pro. Sure, bigger is usually better for griz, but mine gives me the peice of mind that I need when hiking. If I was SURE I'd have a run-in with an angry bruin
Haven't you heard, bears are tougher now.
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Old May 14, 2001, 09:55 PM   #19
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454

I shot my first 454 redhawk the other day,no thanks, they dropped the ball on this one, it,s painful. I read the other day some dude talking about how pleasant it was to shoot. He was either shooting light loads or he is a liar. I,ve been shooting 44,s of every breed for over 30 years now with everything you can stoke in them, some probably not safe, so I am not a recoil shy person. I have not deer hunted with anything but a handgun in 12 years, and I tell you that put new life in hunting deer for me, I love it. 2 years ago I bought a raging bull 454,8-3/8, taurus mounts, burris scope, the recoil is not much more than some of the non ported 44,s. Ruger has never gave any thought to shooter comfort in their 44,s. I,m not knocking ruger as I have 5 of their 77 rifles, they make a fine gun. Taurus did their homework with the grips and porting, and mine will shoot 1 inch groups all day with 260 winchester partition gold from sandbags. I promise you ruger will not sell many 454,s until they make some changes.
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Old May 15, 2001, 06:15 AM   #20
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Pachmayr Decelerators

All my Redhawks wear Pachmayr Decelerators. My 44 and 45 Redhawk often stretch from test loads. (Got a 300g to 1800fps from the 44. Only one shot, though LOL.)

This grip works perfect for me; it allows a high-n-tight grip for fast draw IPSC/USPSA, and provides recoil relief for those 'special moments'.

My wrists are not squishy yet (had operations on both, not gun related).



------------------------------

"all my recoil is factory recoil"
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Old May 15, 2001, 10:52 PM   #21
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You guy's are all missing the boat. With a 454 you can shoot everything from very mild 45lc loads up to some PACO KELLY 45lc that are hotter than a 44 mag. This gun is very versatile and can be used for everything from plinking 45lc's ( which my wife could shoot)to full house 454's.Sure full house 454's can be punishing but you learn to love them (kind of like you'r first shot of whisky . You all owe it to yourself to buy one and try it as I am sure you will love it. In my opinion that is where the 454 far surpasses the 500 Linebagh(although I still would like one)and MANY other's.
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Old May 16, 2001, 04:50 PM   #22
Craig Luna
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Quote:
My wrists are not squishy yet (had operations on both, not gun related).
I can understand how recoil can bother the wrists of many but like every "vigorous" activity in sports, lack of conditioning can usually be found to be the root of the problem.

If you box or lift weights, you will mind much more stress on your wrists than the big pistols give.

The only time recoil bothers me is if the gun doesn't fit my hand. Some factory loads in my favorite 44 (PC629Vcomp) bother me more than Casull + loads in the 44SuperRedhawk. This is not because of the "recoil" perse but rather the result of the cylinder release 'nicking the major knuckle of my thumb.

Well let me qualify this a little. If I haven't shoot a big boomer in a few weeks I will exhibit a little flinch. However, after a couple of cylinders I'm back to the state of mind of "ignoring" the recoil and concentrating soully on the front sight. Unlike others responding to this thread, I find my groups improve during the shooting session (until I have to strain my shoulder holding the pistol up in the air that is).



-CAL




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Old May 29, 2001, 10:16 PM   #23
Alaska Roy
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Question For Craig Luna-

What exactly are Casull + loads in a Ruger Super Redhawk? The .44 Mag won't hold as much powder as a 454 Casull, confused her? Roy
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Old May 30, 2001, 12:42 AM   #24
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The Garrett .44Mag loads for Super Redhawks appear to me to provide everything necessary for this functional class of load/gun?

See also:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

A good 330 doing 1,400fps with 1,400ft/lbs of energy seems to be as much power as you'd need in a handgun. More than that strikes me as insane. And because it's a .44Mag you've got all kinds of flexibility for lighter stuff, personal defense loads, etc. Plus there's speedloaders available, which isn't the case with the .480 and may NEVER be, given how close together those case rims are!

At present, I don't need anything with this sort of horsepower...but when I do, especially since I'm not a handloader, this seems the best all-around combo.

Jim
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Old May 30, 2001, 01:39 AM   #25
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Seems like a rhetorical question to me, as there's nothing I know of short of an elephant or rhino that either one of these won't shoot clean through with the right load. I'm of the opinion that unless you plan on actually going out and purposefully hunting something like a grizzly, they are more than anyone needs. For defense in the wild, it's more important that you hit what your aiming at without a lot of time to concentrate on how much the recoil is going to hurt. I think the practical limit for this is a .44mag. .45LC is about as good with handloads, but the .44 still beats it in penetration becasue unless you use some really heavy bullets, the .44 has a higher sectional density. I think the .44 is still King for all practical purposes.
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