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Old April 28, 2001, 08:35 PM   #1
Wayward
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I picked up some 9mm cases yesterday at the range that are marked "WCC 97". There is no caliber designation on the headstamp. Also it has what looks like a circle with four dots in it. This stuff is boxer primed and I had no problem repriming them. Anyone no what this stuff is?
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Old April 28, 2001, 09:00 PM   #2
pack_rat
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What you have is Winchester brass.
The letters originally stood for
Western Cartridge Company. They
were bought by Winchester, hence
the Winchester-Western (W-W) brand.
Those are 9mm NATO (circled 4 point star)
rounds manufactured in 1997.
Other U.S. makers of NATO ammo include
FC - Federal Cartridge
LC - Lake City Ordnance

Regards,
p_r
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Old April 28, 2001, 09:04 PM   #3
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Western Cartridge Company IIRC. The WCC was the headstamp. Is the mark possibly a cross in a circle? If it is a circle with a cross that signifies a NATO spec round if memory serves correctly. I just filled my belly with about 10# of the most beautiful boiled crawfish imaginable and don't want to get up and go and check my reference books so do not hold me to this, sometimes the memory gets old like the body !
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Old April 28, 2001, 09:59 PM   #4
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Confirming what Southla1 and pack_rat wrote.
The cross-in-circle does indicate NATO-spec ammo, but I can't say when US ammo began appearing with this mark. I think it was in early 1970s.

Best,
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Old April 29, 2001, 10:30 AM   #5
Jorah Lavin
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Any headstamp databanks around?

I bought a batch of .45acp brass last winter, and I can't figure out most of the headstamps. Just for my own curiosity, I'd love to be able to look 'em up now and then.

Anyone know any online resources for such research?

-J.

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Old April 29, 2001, 11:16 AM   #6
pack_rat
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Jorah,

Try Mike Haas' Guide to Small Arms Ammunition here:

http://www.calweb.com/~haas/ammoguide/

Here's one from my personal stash:

http://www.dia.mil/Graphics/FOIA/arms/SmCalVo1.pdf

Be advised: the file is just over ten and a half Mb.
The DL time is well worth the wait.

Cheers,
p_r
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Old May 4, 2001, 07:05 PM   #7
high_caliber
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Jorah,
You will also find a very nice reference here:
http://www.again.net/~steve/headstamps.html

and a nice caliber reference here:
http://www.geocities.com/gregory_bo/

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Old May 4, 2001, 08:17 PM   #8
Jorah Lavin
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high_caliber

Excellent. I wondered about the Lake City headstamp on my surplus 30.06 ammo, whether that was the date or not.

Now I've got to download that ten-meg file...

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Old May 5, 2001, 06:44 PM   #9
Glockzilla
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The only time I've seen the WCC headstamp is on Winchester LEO +P+ 9mm ammunition.
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Old May 7, 2001, 04:08 PM   #10
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Actually, it was Western Cartridge Company who purchased Winchester after they went bankrupt back in the 1920s or so. Winchester had tried to become like Sears and offer everything under the sun (ice skates, tools, flashlights, and on and on) and failed. I believe their plant has always been located in East Alton, Illinois. Last I knew, the whole works belonged to Olin Industries (since about WWII days as I recall?).
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Old May 7, 2001, 07:01 PM   #11
Wayward
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I was at a gun show this weekend and there was a vendor selling Winchester 124 NATO. It was in a white box but with black writing instead of the usual red. The rounds in these boxes were stamped WCC.
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Old May 7, 2001, 09:30 PM   #12
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I think that Olin still owns the Ammo division, but US Repeating Arms bought out the firearms branch about 10 or so years ago IIRC.
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Old May 8, 2001, 04:42 PM   #13
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And US Repeating Arms is owned by FN (Fabrique Nationale of Belgium), as is Browning.

WCC is Olin's military headstamp (and, yes, this has to do with the Western Cartridge buyout long ago). Olin's commercial ammo has the WIN (Winchester) headstamp. IMI's military headstamp is TZ or TZZ, while their commecial ammo is marked IMI. PMC's military ammo is headstamped PS.

-Troy
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Old May 8, 2001, 04:47 PM   #14
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Point of information:

I have early-1980s PMC military ammo (back when it was made in Korea) with a "PSD" headstamp.


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Old July 30, 2005, 05:12 PM   #15
Shrinkmd
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WCC 97 9mm ammo?

A friend has some he can share with me. It has the wcc 97 and what looks like a nato cross circle stamp. I will take a picture and attach it later.

Was this made in 97? It is fmj ball ammo. Anyone know what size bullet. And it is standard, right? No +P on the cartridge as far as I can see. I'll let everyone know how it shoots.

Thanks!
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Old July 30, 2005, 10:47 PM   #16
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Just a side note

I have a LOT of 45 ACP MILITARY brass. Most of it is of the Winchester (and buyout companies) headstamp.

By my own conclusions, I have found the following headstamps amoung this stuff.

WCC - Winchester Cartridge Company
WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms

I've noticed that by the date stamps on those cases that around the late sixties the Headstamps changed from WCC to WRA (around 68 I think) or maybe the other way around. All of the later stuff in the seventies and eighties seems to have the W-W headstamp.

Of course, as we all know, the newer White box ammo says "Winchester" on the headstamp.

As far as I can tell, Remington military ammo all has the R-A headstamp, followed by the date (i.e. R-A 70), the same as the Winchester cases, while the commercial cases all seem to have the R-P headstamp.

Fiocchi is the strange one, I've seen some that said "Fiocchi" and then have seen some with a "G.F.L" headstamp.

Maybe we should make a sticky with all the different headstamp nomenclature for reference?

Last edited by CaptainRazor; July 30, 2005 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typo and content
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Old July 30, 2005, 11:33 PM   #17
Mike Irwin
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Many manufacturers have case head bunting variations that they've used, or which they still use.

Sort of like Ford having a Contour, a Crown Vic, a Probe, etc.
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Old July 31, 2005, 08:42 AM   #18
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I have some older .45acp cases that are made from mild steel rather than brass (war shortage of brass) and are ,marked "EC 42" which is Evansville Chrysler, 1942. It is my understanding that mild steel cases were for stateside use only and in 1942, the priming was corrosive. Quantrill
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