When Mommies attack: bribery of gangbanger witnesses at the TX legislature!!!

Jim March · March 23, 2001, 06:05 AM

OK, *now* I'm ******:

http://www.infowars.com/payoff.html

Jim

iso1 · March 23, 2001, 07:09 AM

What else can they do when the truth can hurt them?

Hire some gangbangers to testify for them, then pay them off. It was interesting that those little punks talked about shooting people, threw some gang signs, insulted the cameraman and a young boy who was nearby, made threats, and called their payoffs "campaign contributions" even after the guy who paid them said it was "traveling expenses."

Of course, the payoffs might be tax deductible, knowing how the MMM handles things, right?

JimR · March 23, 2001, 07:30 AM

This same topic is on another thread (here) with a less descriptive thread title.

I repeat here what I said in that thread:

Quote:

Boy those were some real upstanding citizens there. Couldn't even keep a "story" straight.

You Texans need to be all over your legis-critters on this one.

And you do! I want to see some posts of your outraged letters to your state legis-critters.

Jeff OTMG · March 23, 2001, 11:08 PM

Guys, I would try to find a more 'believable' source than Alex Jones' organization. This guy is THE black helicopter chicken little in Texas. Much of the stuff on his site has a benign explanation, but he doesn't present both sides. He tends to leave out a perfectly good explanation. The guy is right on some things, but WAY off base on others. NOT a reference to be used in an argument.

Dangus · March 24, 2001, 08:41 AM

20,000 dollars for testimony??? I think those guys are probably pretty bad at math too. I wouldn't expect them to get that much.

Campaign contributions??? You need to have a campaign for those to be legal, and I can't imagine those guys even being elected for local garbage crew let alone anything substantive......

Email this to people, find some liberal forums and see what the reaction is there. You can preach here to the choir all ya want, but you're not gaining as many converts as if you find and hit some liberal boards. The trick there is to be nice and make some friends and not post TOO much about guns. Post about other stuff, discuss stuff, feel the place out, and then approach the subject of guns. I do it a lot at a big webforum that is chock full of liberals. There are some that are listening and a couple that are clearly never going to. I even posted quotes of founding fathers and other smart men, and then he replied to each quote telling me that it didn't mean what it said. Such arrogance is contemptable, especially from a Vietnam vet, who should have some idea about how bad both communism and facism are, he got communism from the North and facism from home.

ChrisMkIV · March 24, 2001, 09:14 AM

Well I heard somwhere that some HCI offical was quoted as saying "we did not tell enough lies" and I doubt that a group as twisted as YTAGV and HCI will be hindered by such a trivial matter as the truth and the real facts.

Everyone should know that they are full of "IT" after they were cought red handed lying to the Maryland legislature.

Jim March · March 25, 2001, 07:37 PM

http://www.austin360.com/statesman/e...o_state_1.html

Saturday, March 24

Payments made to backers of gun bills
By Claudia Grisales and Juan B. Elizondo Jr.
Austin American-Statesman
Saturday, March 24, 2001

Proponents of gun owners' rights asked lawmakers Friday to investigate cash payments made to three Houston men who appeared before a House committee this week to support bills that would require instant background checks at gun shows.

Dave Smith, president of Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety, said he gave the three men, members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence, about $300 each to cover their expenses and lost wages for the trip. All three men, however, said they are currently unemployed.

Oterias Kelley, 20, one of the witnesses, said it is ridiculous that someone would raise concerns about their testimony. "It's against my morals," Kelley said. Another witness agreed.

"The money that was given to us was not to change our testimony," said Bruce Brown, 18, who did not speak to the committee but submitted a witness form that showed he supported the bills.

Smith, who gave the men the cash just outside the committee hearing room, said Young Texans Against Gun Violence is an arm of his group.

The subsidiary group receives donations from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and the Alliance for Justice. Those groups encourage young people to get experience in the political process, Smith said.

Reimbursing witnesses for travel expenses is not unusual, said Suzy Woodford of Common Cause Texas, a group that monitors government ethics. But she and others said using cash and paying for witnesses' time raises ethical questions.

"It totally undermines the witness's credibility," Woodford said. "My attitude from the time I got here is, 'How will this look?'"

Complaints about the payments began circulating after Austin-based talk-show host Alex Jones, who was at the House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee meeting Tuesday, aired videotaped interviews with Smith and the young men. They told Jones that the money was reimbursement, stipends and campaign contributions.

Chris Stark, head of the Gun Owners Alliance, has asked his thousands of members to seek a House investigation of the payments and to have the hearing disregarded.

Smith said the complaints are being raised because the young men are minorities. Two are black. One is Hispanic.

Jones, a strong supporter of gun owners' rights, said Smith was "trying to cover up his dirty activities" by making accusations of racism.

"He's sitting here caught on tape, throwing out different stories and giving out money," said Jones, who mentioned the payments during his testimony against the proposals to require background checks at gun shows. "How dare he try to divert attention by saying I'm a racist? I'd be upset if they were white guys, Eskimos or blue Russians."

Committee members Rick Green, R-Dripping Springs, and Juan Hinojosa, D-McAllen, said they were uneasy about taking Jones seriously because of other inflammatory comments he has made.

Hinojosa, the chairman of the committee, said that although he didn't know details about the payments, he is not concerned if the witnesses were compensated for testifying. Hinojosa said lobbyists are compensated for their work to influence policy on behalf of other interests.

"Maybe these kids were paid for their travel, but I don't see anything improper about that," Hinojosa said. "It is part of the process. It is part of open government."

State law requires people who are paid more than $1,000 in three months or who spend more than $500 a quarter trying to influence legislation or agency action to register as lobbyists.

Smith said not reimbursing witnesses for lost wages would mean average Texans would be left out of legislative debates. And he said cash made sense.

"If they are driving back to Houston and have problems, they need cash," he said "It's not a good idea to do it on TV, I guess," he added.

Two of the men, Glen Lambert, 19, and Kelley, are board members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence. Kelley testified that he knows people who have purchased guns at gun shows specifically to resell in his lower-income, minority neighborhood.

"Guns are too available on the streets, especially in my neighborhood, and that's what I went to plead before the committee members," Kelley said.

You may contact Juan Elizondo at jelizondo@statesman.com or 445-3624 and Claudia Grisales at 445-3673 or cgrisales@statesman.com.

JimR · March 25, 2001, 09:59 PM

I guess the article somewhat even-handedly tells the story of what's going on with respect to what was caught on tape.

And, if you've seen the tape and seen these fine young citizens, and can say with a straight face that you truly believe they "board members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence", then you're an idiot.

IMNSHO, the only reason those guys want more gun control is so fewer potential victims will be armed.

March 24, 2001, 08:41 AM	#5
Dangus Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2000 Location: IA Posts: 1,908	20,000 dollars for testimony??? I think those guys are probably pretty bad at math too. I wouldn't expect them to get that much. Campaign contributions??? You need to have a campaign for those to be legal, and I can't imagine those guys even being elected for local garbage crew let alone anything substantive...... Email this to people, find some liberal forums and see what the reaction is there. You can preach here to the choir all ya want, but you're not gaining as many converts as if you find and hit some liberal boards. The trick there is to be nice and make some friends and not post TOO much about guns. Post about other stuff, discuss stuff, feel the place out, and then approach the subject of guns. I do it a lot at a big webforum that is chock full of liberals. There are some that are listening and a couple that are clearly never going to. I even posted quotes of founding fathers and other smart men, and then he replied to each quote telling me that it didn't mean what it said. Such arrogance is contemptable, especially from a Vietnam vet, who should have some idea about how bad both communism and facism are, he got communism from the North and facism from home. __________________ Help Fight Cancer I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist "Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

March 24, 2001, 09:14 AM	#6
ChrisMkIV Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: The Colony,Tx Posts: 338	They don't care. Well I heard somwhere that some HCI offical was quoted as saying "we did not tell enough lies" and I doubt that a group as twisted as YTAGV and HCI will be hindered by such a trivial matter as the truth and the real facts. Everyone should know that they are full of "IT" after they were cought red handed lying to the Maryland legislature. __________________ "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law abiding deprived the use of them" --Thomas Paine, 1775 Second Amendment Lovers HQ Texas Tyranny Response Team

March 25, 2001, 07:37 PM	#7
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	*Is THIS* a good enough source?** http://www.austin360.com/statesman/e...o_state_1.html Saturday, March 24 Payments made to backers of gun bills By Claudia Grisales and Juan B. Elizondo Jr. Austin American-Statesman Saturday, March 24, 2001 Proponents of gun owners' rights asked lawmakers Friday to investigate cash payments made to three Houston men who appeared before a House committee this week to support bills that would require instant background checks at gun shows. Dave Smith, president of Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety, said he gave the three men, members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence, about $300 each to cover their expenses and lost wages for the trip. All three men, however, said they are currently unemployed. Oterias Kelley, 20, one of the witnesses, said it is ridiculous that someone would raise concerns about their testimony. "It's against my morals," Kelley said. Another witness agreed. "The money that was given to us was not to change our testimony," said Bruce Brown, 18, who did not speak to the committee but submitted a witness form that showed he supported the bills. Smith, who gave the men the cash just outside the committee hearing room, said Young Texans Against Gun Violence is an arm of his group. The subsidiary group receives donations from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and the Alliance for Justice. Those groups encourage young people to get experience in the political process, Smith said. Reimbursing witnesses for travel expenses is not unusual, said Suzy Woodford of Common Cause Texas, a group that monitors government ethics. But she and others said using cash and paying for witnesses' time raises ethical questions. "It totally undermines the witness's credibility," Woodford said. "My attitude from the time I got here is, 'How will this look?'" Complaints about the payments began circulating after Austin-based talk-show host Alex Jones, who was at the House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee meeting Tuesday, aired videotaped interviews with Smith and the young men. They told Jones that the money was reimbursement, stipends and campaign contributions. Chris Stark, head of the Gun Owners Alliance, has asked his thousands of members to seek a House investigation of the payments and to have the hearing disregarded. Smith said the complaints are being raised because the young men are minorities. Two are black. One is Hispanic. Jones, a strong supporter of gun owners' rights, said Smith was "trying to cover up his dirty activities" by making accusations of racism. "He's sitting here caught on tape, throwing out different stories and giving out money," said Jones, who mentioned the payments during his testimony against the proposals to require background checks at gun shows. "How dare he try to divert attention by saying I'm a racist? I'd be upset if they were white guys, Eskimos or blue Russians." Committee members Rick Green, R-Dripping Springs, and Juan Hinojosa, D-McAllen, said they were uneasy about taking Jones seriously because of other inflammatory comments he has made. Hinojosa, the chairman of the committee, said that although he didn't know details about the payments, he is not concerned if the witnesses were compensated for testifying. Hinojosa said lobbyists are compensated for their work to influence policy on behalf of other interests. "Maybe these kids were paid for their travel, but I don't see anything improper about that," Hinojosa said. "It is part of the process. It is part of open government." State law requires people who are paid more than $1,000 in three months or who spend more than $500 a quarter trying to influence legislation or agency action to register as lobbyists. Smith said not reimbursing witnesses for lost wages would mean average Texans would be left out of legislative debates. And he said cash made sense. "If they are driving back to Houston and have problems, they need cash," he said "It's not a good idea to do it on TV, I guess," he added. Two of the men, Glen Lambert, 19, and Kelley, are board members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence. Kelley testified that he knows people who have purchased guns at gun shows specifically to resell in his lower-income, minority neighborhood. "Guns are too available on the streets, especially in my neighborhood, and that's what I went to plead before the committee members," Kelley said. You may contact Juan Elizondo at jelizondo@statesman.com or 445-3624 and Claudia Grisales at 445-3673 or cgrisales@statesman.com.

March 23, 2001, 06:05 AM	#1
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	OK, now I'm ******: http://www.infowars.com/payoff.html Jim

March 23, 2001, 07:09 AM	#2
iso1 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 574	What else can they do when the truth can hurt them? Hire some gangbangers to testify for them, then pay them off. It was interesting that those little punks talked about shooting people, threw some gang signs, insulted the cameraman and a young boy who was nearby, made threats, and called their payoffs "campaign contributions" even after the guy who paid them said it was "traveling expenses." Of course, the payoffs might be tax deductible, knowing how the MMM handles things, right?

March 23, 2001, 11:08 PM	#4
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,708	Guys, I would try to find a more 'believable' source than Alex Jones' organization. This guy is THE black helicopter chicken little in Texas. Much of the stuff on his site has a benign explanation, but he doesn't present both sides. He tends to leave out a perfectly good explanation. The guy is right on some things, but WAY off base on others. NOT a reference to be used in an argument.

March 25, 2001, 09:59 PM	#8
JimR Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 909	I guess the article somewhat even-handedly tells the story of what's going on with respect to what was caught on tape. And, if you've seen the tape and seen these fine young citizens, and can say with a straight face that you truly believe they "board members of Young Texans Against Gun Violence", then you're an idiot. IMNSHO, the only reason those guys want more gun control is so fewer potential victims will be armed.