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Old March 15, 2001, 11:42 AM   #1
Glamdring
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1) Reliable.

2) Ergonomics [ie user friendly with a trigger, sight system, recoil, fit, etc that don't make operation or accurate shooting more difficult than it has to be]

3) Quick reloading because if the gun goes dry you need to reload fast. To me this means from best to worst: Detachable mags, en block clips, stripper clips. I really don't want to have to single load a combat/defense gun.


Any other features that are important?
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Old March 15, 2001, 11:58 AM   #2
Joe Demko
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1. Must be black.
2. Must be "endorsed" by a SEAL or other "operator."
3. Must be described as "high speed, low drag."
4. Must be featured on the cover of at least one gun magazine surrounded by other "tactical" gear, especially a "fighting knife" of some description.
5. Must be black.
6. Must have a thigh holster available (in black).
7. Must be used in a Steven Segal or Bruce Willis movie.
8. Must be black.
9. Must be used in at least one 1st person shooter video game.
10. Must be black.
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Old March 15, 2001, 02:20 PM   #3
Double Naught Spy
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While I agree with all of Golgo-13's choices, I would add that it ...

1. Must Be Black
2. Must have it in your hands - there is nothing tactical about a weapon that no one is using.

Seriously, does anyone actually know what 'tactical' means anymore?

What you have described Glamdring is simply a good fighting gun. What makes it 'tactical'?
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Old March 15, 2001, 04:05 PM   #4
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Adequate caliber. For me that means .38, 9mm. .357, .40, or .45 ACP. Regards, LBC
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Old March 15, 2001, 05:19 PM   #5
David Scott
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I agree with reliability and powerful enough caliber. I define "powerful enough" as 300+ lbs of muzzle energy, for a rough rule of thumb. I would add the .44 Special, .41 and .44 Mag and the 10mm to LBC's list.

Must be able to shoot it rapidly, and make solid hits on multiple targets consistently.

Must be concealable (for us non-uniformed types). This implies that it must be light enough for all day carry, too.

Must have some sort of low-light sights -- most cordite-scented social encounters take place after dark.

Must have adequate capacity. IMHO a five or six shot gun leaves no margin of comfort. I'd accept 7 to 10 rounds if I had to, but as long as I can get hi-caps it's 15 in the gun and 15 in the spare mag. I know that in most encounters only a few shots are fired, but I don't want to survive "most" of them, I want to survive ALL of them.

Finally, must have been cited as the "ultimate" in at least one gun mag. That includes most everything north of a Lorcin.
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Old March 15, 2001, 06:04 PM   #6
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Must be a rifle.

Col. Cooper said "A handgun is for fighting your way back to your rifle."

I say "Bringing a pistol to a rifle fight is worse than bringing a knife to a pistol fight."

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Old March 15, 2001, 08:56 PM   #7
Mikey
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Mama always said...tactical is as tactical does...

With the understanding that the following is just one man's opinion...

From Glamdring: *Reliable - check; *Ergonomic - check; *Quick reloads - check.

From Golgo-13: *black - check; *endorsed by ops - check; *high speed/low drag - check (note 100mph tape somewhere on weapon); *featured with other tac gear - check; *still black; *thigh holster available - well, it has a tac sling; *movie use - check; *still black; *video use - check; black as midnight!

From Double Naught Spy: *blackness as an art form - check; *hand held - check; *What is tactical? "of or having to do with tactics" "characterized by or showing cleverness and skill in tactics" - check.

From LBC: *adequate caliber - check.

From David Scott: *powerful enough - check; *accurate rapid fire capability - check; concealable - why?; *low light sights - check (note red dot); *capacity/firepower - check (note 30 round mag); cited as "ultimate" in a gun rag - OH YEAH!

From Halffast: *be a rifle - darn skippy!

Items not previously covered: *self contained, easily operated, extremely bright (blinding) light source - check; multiple sighting systems (back-up) - check; as many adjustable features as possible for mission variability - check; *black in color - check; *universally labeled as being "evil" or "banned" by most governmental agencies and the media - in SPADES! Last, but not least, it MUST be BLACK!!! - check...

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the most unversally recognized number one choice for tactical weaponry in the world today:



Mikey
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Old March 16, 2001, 01:00 AM   #8
pariah
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I would like to add:
1. it must be black
2. it must be a weapon that you LIKE to shoot, that means you enjoy taking it to the range and making little holes inside of small rings on paper or beer cans or whatever's. Because as has been said before, the deadliest weapon is behind the gun (between your ears). You have to be comfortable, confident and proficient with any tactical "ultimate" weapon.

BTW, hi cap and lightweight would preclude the use of the mags mentioned above (even though I love my 44 mag)
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Old March 16, 2001, 09:42 AM   #9
Art Eatman
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Whatever you can make two or three hits with in a very small pattern at ten or fifteen yards, at your maximum possible speed. That means whatever feels best in your hand. Your hand, not mine.

I'd guess that a Colt Commander size is about as large as can be reasonably easily concealed, for most people. It oughta be 9mm Para or bigger.

AFter you have all this worked out, get it anodized in Passionate Pink, for all I care.

It's poor tactics to carry the world's most accurate and reliable gun--but you can't hit with it...

"Tactical" is advertising BS, a null-word signifying nothing of note to anybody with enough smarts to sit upwind of a campfire...

, Art

PS: Come to think of it, I used to know a lady who had some really neat tactical undies...

, A
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Old March 16, 2001, 09:56 AM   #10
David Scott
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Mikey says:

Quote:
concealable - why?
Because civilians like myself can't tote an AR-15 around the streets. Gun's no good if you have to leave it at home.

I agree a rifle is better than a pistol. But a gun on your hip in a dark parking lot is better than a rifle in the closet back at the house.

If we're talking rifles, I'll take an FN-FAL, please. I like the 7.62 caliber.
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Old March 16, 2001, 10:17 AM   #11
Mikey
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OK David - I concede...concealable is in...

BUT - if it stays concealed it doesn't have to be black except maybe for the grips. And they need to be made of carbon fiber for low radar signature. It needs a matte finish for stealthy presentation and nite sites for low light ops. Everything else is pretty much the same as before.

I also agree with Art about the Commander size. Let's see if we can find something around here that fit's the tactical requirement...hmmm....how about this.



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Old March 16, 2001, 10:55 AM   #12
M1911
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David:

Yup. I just took SigArms Concealed Carry class a couple weeks ago. When the instructor asked "Why do people carry pistols?," I answered "'Cause we can't carry rifles!"

M1911
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Old March 16, 2001, 10:56 AM   #13
Joe Demko
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No, it does need to be black...whether it is a shoulder arm or handgun, whether it is carried openly or concealed. I read SOF and other high speed, low drag professional journals for operators, so I know that tactical stuff is always black. I did overlook the necessity of carbon fiber parts for a low radar signature, though. Thanx!
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Old March 16, 2001, 11:10 AM   #14
Mikey
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ALRIGHT ALREADY!

Low radar signature, low x-ray signature, high capacity AND black!



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Old March 17, 2001, 08:22 PM   #15
tree
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Black is beautiful? how about this?





or my own invention ...sory its not all black




[Edited by tree on 03-22-2001 at 09:04 PM]
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Old March 17, 2001, 08:25 PM   #16
tree
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Black is beautiful? how about this?

please disregard double post

[Edited by tree on 03-22-2001 at 09:07 PM]
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Old March 19, 2001, 01:40 PM   #17
Cheapo
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1) Must have trigger I can operate.

2) Muzzle must point *away* from operator.

AHEM...as a former subscriber of _Strategy and Tactics_ magazine, I submit that "Tactical" applies to modes of employment and intermediate objectives,

and not

to the specific tool chosen to accomplish the tactical objectives which work to accomplish your strategic goals.

Let's ban the word. It's no more "politically correct" than "assault weapons" was, and equally meaningless as now over-used.

They still must be black. :-)!
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Old March 20, 2001, 07:39 PM   #18
Mute
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100% reliable. And...uh...it must be BLACK!
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Old March 23, 2001, 11:58 AM   #19
Tall Man
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Let's not waste time:

"Tactically important features of guns", Mr. Glamdring?

The weapon should properly discharge a round each time you pull the trigger.

Everything else is conversation, guys. Stay focused.

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Old March 26, 2001, 01:03 PM   #20
Deaf Smith
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Important traits:

1) Barrel
2) Action
3) Frame

These above are must haves. Just won't work without them.

Ok,

1) Reliable as can be.
2) Durable as can be.
3) ok in accuracy (say 3 inch 25 yards)
4) good trigger (if SA, 4 lb pull, if DA 10 lb good)
5) good sights (novak and heinnes work real good)
6) if safety incorperated, must be easy to enguage/disenguage.
7) 6 or above magazine capacity (all other things being equal the more the better).
8) concealable.
9) reasonable weight.
10) 9mm/.38 spl or above (if useing hollowpoints, if FMJ make it .40 or above with emphasas on 'above')

I find any Glock, Sig, H&K, P-35 (mkII or III), some 1911s, just about all Rugers (both autos and revolvers), and most Smiths to. Brettias have a bad problem with locking block failures, same with Taurus copies. Lots of lesser 1911 makers have functioning problems (Colts now days work fine).

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Old March 26, 2001, 01:27 PM   #21
BigG
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Must have Tactical in the name.
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Old March 27, 2001, 10:55 PM   #22
GSB
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"Must have Tactical in the name." - BigG

Always a plus, although it should also contain at least one of the following: "CQB", "Ultra", "Custom", "Elite" or "Covert", as in:

Tactical CQB .45
Ultra Tactical 9mm
Custom Tactical Elite
Covert Custom Tactical Elite

or the ultimate in high speed, low drag, the CQB Ultra Tactical Custom Covert Elite, Stainless.


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Old March 28, 2001, 11:09 AM   #23
Cheapo
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Aw man!!!! We forgot LOW-MAINTENANCE!!!

GSB has the correct name: CQB Ultra Tactical Custom Covert Elite, Stainless.

We just must, MUST use the adjectives high-speed, low-drag and low-maintenance when talking about it.

Prices will double when we start getting e-mails touting this product, with the topic header something like:

BANNED IN THE U.K., GET YOURS NOW BEFORE CONGRESS OUTLAWS THEM!
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Old April 19, 2001, 04:16 PM   #24
twin Sigs
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H&K Mark23 w/ all the accessories
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Old April 20, 2001, 05:06 PM   #25
JNewhouse
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One more..

It has to be twice as expensive as the "regular" model, if there is one. If there isn't, it must be just expensive enough that you can't tell your wife what you spent on it.
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