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Old March 12, 2001, 01:19 AM   #1
ReserveCop
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What is the ultimate NON-FIREARM back-up weapon?

I friend told me, in his opinion, it was a "neck carried knife made by Emerson."

Do any of you have that knife and what do you think of it?

Thanks for your opinions.
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Old March 12, 2001, 02:15 AM   #2
jadams951
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For me it would be a knife but like alot of other things I would imagine it would depend on the person. But whatever it is that person needs to have some experience or training with it.
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Old March 12, 2001, 02:15 AM   #3
traitorjack
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different tools for different jobs. I always carry some sort of folder, because I often find a use for it during the day, but as far as a non-firearm backup *weapon* I like the 26" ASP, when the clothing situation allows. see, what kind of worries me is how much blood would get spilled if I had to use a knife, god forbid; you know what I mean, all those blood-borne pathogens and whatnot. I need to replace the grip on mine; I've swung it around so much the foam pullover thing is mushy and sliding.

OTOH, my NFBW tonight was a Cold Steel Safekeeper I, the pushdagger with the 6" blade. not really cricket, I know, but I like it, and I forgot my ASP at work.

just my 2 cents,

--alex.
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Old March 12, 2001, 02:42 AM   #4
PaladinX13
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The Human Body

Seriously, all the equipment in the world won't equalize men as well as a firearm... so go about making yourself fundamentally "more equal". If you are a weapon, then you will always have your backup with you... plus the benefits stack more than with more specialized backup weapon.
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Old March 12, 2001, 02:53 PM   #5
Bogie
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A good pair of BOOTS.

You don't wanna twist an ankle. That's a bad thing.

You want to know that if you move rapidly, or kick someone, that you won't step out of your footwear.

You want to know that if you kick someone you will (1) not break your foot; and (2) hurt the SOB...

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Old March 12, 2001, 03:38 PM   #6
Hard Ball
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I don't know about a specific Emerson "neck knife", but I have an Emerson Commander folder which is an outstanding design and can easily be carried concealed.
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Old March 12, 2001, 06:00 PM   #7
LBC
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ultimate backup

For mortal combat, undoubtedly I'd have to say a fixed-blade knife. If you have no gun to create and maintain distance, you're probably grappling and are going to end up on the ground. Even a simpleton with little or no training can inflict horrible damage with a knife. As far as a neck knife goes, they're "cool" and fairly undetectable, but have you ever tried drawing one from under a shirt when TSHTF? No thanks, unless your opponent is a gentleman who will allow you time to draw your sword. I say fixed blade because I believe it's stronger against rib, bone, and leather, but if you have a good folder (I like Spyderco and Benchmade thumbholes, i.e. AFCK) so be it. Carried off side in a pocket, it's very fast into action. I also like the 21" ASP -- nobody wants to get whomped with that thing.
Best Wishes, LBC
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Old March 12, 2001, 06:15 PM   #8
voodoo
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You must be referring to the LaGriffe...

http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-Product%20Spec?EMLAG,

I carry one. It's awesome. Small, light, and devastatingly effective.

Is it the "ultimate" back-up? IMO, an NAA Mini or P32 is the "ultimate". But as far as non-firearms go, it is pretty close. I think the only thing better would be an ASP.
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Old March 12, 2001, 08:58 PM   #9
guerilla1138
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The ultimate backup in my opinion is a combination of awaredness, training, and tools.

Awaredness being noticing the situation around you, noticing an attackers weakness and strengths in just a few moments and general alertness.
Training being well training.
And tools being the weapons, gun, knife kubaton, big stick or what have you.

If I had to pick an ultimate backup weapon, the one that its only use would be where I was about to die and it was the only way to stop an attacker, what I would pick is a dagger I have. Its a neat little home made deal, wood handles pinned on with tacks that have been gound flush, and a blade made from bandsaw blade. its about 10 inches overall with an about 7 inch blade. carries nicely in my boot.
Now if I carried a gun as my main defense weapon this choice would be different.
But since I am 15, and dont want to break the law and thus render myself unable to buy or own any guns if I get caught, I carry a knife as my main defensive weapon.

Its a knife made by Emerson, called the Commander.
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-Product%20Spec?EME3BTS
Its a production version of Ernest Emersons custom made ES1-M folding fighter, designed for SEAL team use.
This would be my choice for a backup if I carried a gun.
It opens faster than any automatic knife ever could, by the simple fact that if done right it comes open when you pull it from your pocket.
It has a little hook type thing on the top of the blade, incorperated into the thumb ramp, that catches on the edge of your pocket when pulled out that pulls the blade open.
Also the recurve style blade naturally pulls the blade deeper into whatever is being cut with it, and in defensive use this creates a massive wound channel.

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Old March 13, 2001, 02:38 AM   #10
Doc Hudson
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The absolute best Backup bar any and all!!!

A good friend packing iron.

Nothing beats a friend that you can trust to cover you back, not the best knife nor eleventeen blackbelts in any martial art. I'd rather have Andy, Jim, Paco, Big John, or Dewey as backup than any other weapon around.

Doc Hudson
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Old March 13, 2001, 04:29 AM   #11
Alaska Roy
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Brains vs Toys Thread-

It's between your ears, eyeballs pop out amazingly easy. Close enough for a knife is close enough for a throat, it all comes down to training. Having a gun don't make you a gunfighter anymore than having a guitar makes you Ted Nugent! Roy
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Old March 13, 2001, 04:43 PM   #12
Spectre
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Um...what?

"If I had to pick an ultimate backup weapon, the one that its only use would be where I was about to die and it was the only way to stop an attacker, what I would pick is a dagger I have...I am 15, and dont want to break the law and thus render myself unable to buy or own any guns if I get caught, I carry a knife as my main defensive weapon."

Um, anywhere I've heard of, this qualifies as a concealed weapon, and therefore illegal, except in certain circumstances.

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Old March 14, 2001, 04:43 PM   #13
guerilla1138
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Very true...........

...btu its still not a gun. Not as bad on me if I have to use the thing. If it were a gun I would be inome pretty deep sh*t, and most likely looking at a bit of time in jail, and while 1 minute is one minute to much I jail, I could deal with it on concealed weapon charges for the knife, but illegal possesion of a firearm, illegal concealed firearm, possesion of a handgun by a minor, I would rather not even have to worry about those.

I wont break gun laws, period.

Might not make sense to ya'll but it does to me.
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Old March 14, 2001, 04:49 PM   #14
Doc Hudson
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I many jurisdictions, pocession of a concealed fighting knife was a felony while possession of an un permitted handgun was only a misdemeanor.

Recent changes have made handgun pocession a felony as well in many places, but a fight knife in pocession is a felony also.

Doc Hudson
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Old March 14, 2001, 05:24 PM   #15
Betty
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In TN, you can carry a knife with a blade no longer than 4" and it cannot be a switchblade or "gravity knife" like a butterfly. The definition "fighting knife" can be hard to define, seeing how many people abuse the term "assault weapon". Alot of people think if it looks scary or has serrations, it's for "hurting people". In that case, maybe I show them my neon-green plastic rat-tailed hairbrush. I can sink that thing into you about 6 inches and then brush the cooties out of my hair (just kidding!).

I tote a MOD Ladyhawk, which looks small and harmless enough with a 2.5" blade, and most people don't think anything of it when I use it for utility purposes. Alot of my female co-workers actually think it looks cute. Watch out though, animals have their talons and claws curved for a reason.
http://www.mastersofdefense.com/cgi-...=4482673.22077

Sometimes I still tote my Benchmade AFCK, which has a 4" blade and round Spyderco hole. Very handy for flicking out extremely fast.
http://www.benchmade.com/detail.asp?...801686&item=93

I prefer folding knives because that does give me the option of carrying a larger blade in a smaller, folded package, and they can be concealed easier. Knives with pocket clips prevent me from digging around in my pocket and trying to turn the knife the right way so I can open it.

For a non-stabbing weapon, I prefer my 16" ASP baton.
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Old March 14, 2001, 06:53 PM   #16
voodoo
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In my state, concealed carry of a fixed blade is felony. Must not be in yours. IMO, a felony is a felony. You're scr#wed...period. If/when you're convicted you can kiss away any chance of purchasing a firearm (when you become of legal age).

BTW, concealed carry of a firearm here is a misdemeanor. Go figure!
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Old March 15, 2001, 12:56 AM   #17
Kaylee
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---------------------------
"What is the ultimate NON-FIREARM back-up weapon?"
---------------------------

umm..... air support?


Seriously.. second the "knife is a felony, pistol a misdemeanor" bit. Don't understand it, but there it is.

In practice, I'd imagine a kid with a folder-knife would get a lot less grief than a kid with a fixed or "nasty-lookin" knife, who in turn would get less grief than a kid with a gun. Circumstances, appearance/demeanor, and how Wally Cleaver you look to the officers affecting the situation, of course. Any of our police folks care to answer that?

And oh yeah, to the original question.. I only carry one weapon, 'cause I don't intend to do any fighting. I do have a nice locking folder knife in me pocket, but that's just an everyday tool, and it never occured to me it might be a weapon in a pinch...
-K
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Old March 15, 2001, 11:52 AM   #18
Glamdring
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In no particular order...


1) Claymore [the mine or the sword]
2) WP grenade
3) Combat Chainsaw with all the bells and whistles
The Bells and Whistles:
A) Suppresor
B) Weapon Mounted Tactical Light, etc.
4) Arc Welder
5) Spot welder
6) Matched Pair of Attack Trained Rott's
7) Siberian Tiger [attack training not needed!]
8) War Elephant
9) War Horse [seriously, an attacked trained horse would not be something to laugh at]
10) Super Soaker with your choice of payload
11) High powered air gun
12) Hedge Trimmer
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Old March 15, 2001, 04:04 PM   #19
guerilla1138
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Well I did forget to leave one thing out, I actually dont carry that dagger that often, altho it is my idea of a perfect backup for me, mainly for that reason,also because it means a great deal to me as it was a gift from a friend.
And the attitude to kids with guns around where I am is pretty unfriendly. Where as almost everyone I knwo my age carries a large folder, and not soemthing liek a Buck folding hunter, more like a one handed opening tactical knife. Its common. So I feel more comfortable risking a knife over a gun.

Besides in justifiable self defense I am going to trust the fact that the on scene officers will use common sense and recognize that I am not a gang banger out to kill people, only a defensive minded person trying to avoid the fight.
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Old March 16, 2001, 03:42 PM   #20
Master Blaster
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I have a 6 inch metal weapon that I carry in plain sight all of the time, especially at work. It has a sharp point and an all metal body in 14kt gold plate and enamal.

Jam it into the neck or eye of your attacker and it will cause a very disabling wound. People look at it all day and are never alarmed, and it will never get me in any trouble with the law.

I can also write my name with it, its called a parker pen.
I'd prefer to carry my .45 gvt model but it scares the sheeple.
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Old March 17, 2001, 06:46 AM   #21
LBC
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Master Blaster, what kind of load do you carry in that Parker? I've got a felt tip, but I hear those new gel inks
offer some pretty high OSS percentages. :} LBC.
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Old March 20, 2001, 02:47 PM   #22
Bruegger
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Whatever your backup, make sure it's legal

For example, in Kalifornia, it's a FELONY to carry a:
-dagger, dirk, switchblade, ASP and so forth.*
-fixed blade knife if concealed

See Cal Penal Code section 12020

A knife is not prohibited if it can only be opened manually using a thumb-stud or the equivalent.

It's ordinarily a misdemeanor to carry a firearm concealed if a first offense, but it can be charged as a felony under some circumstances.

It's generally legal in CA to carry (but check local laws for variances):
-a fixed blade knife openly
-a folding blade knife of ANY length openly or concealed


*it also prohibits: any "cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag..."
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Old March 22, 2001, 11:16 PM   #23
Apeach
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My defense weapon

Gosh, I'm 15 too, and there's no way I'm gonna be caught carrying a gun. I couldn't get my hands on one anyways. I carry a knife, though. Mine is a Buck Crosslock (has a straight and serrated blade, both seperate), and I'd use it if I felt my life was in danger. But for a fight, I'd rather have one of those batons. The knife is messy and too fatal for me to want to use in a fight. I'd hesitate too much if it was a fight, and I'd get beated and then they'd take the knife. I wouldn't hesitate as much with the baton, because it doesn't do as much permanent damage, but still hurts like hell.
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Old March 23, 2001, 12:27 AM   #24
guerilla1138
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No a baton doesnt do much severe permanent damage, but it can do a lot of damage.
If you read some of my older posts I make refference to carrying a straight cane made of ash wood for awhile, and also a pair of 20 inch ash batons occasionaly when I felt brave.
Now the ash cane is a little to short for me so I carry one of two customized crook top oak canes. I do have a knee problem so i do have a reason aside from defense.

But I will attest to the power of a cane, baton, whacking stick of whatever kind.
To make a long story short, one night soem guys jumped a firend of mine and I ran them off, all of the 5 except one took off after about one good solid whack apiece, but the last guy decided he could take me.
It was dark and I couldnt see to well, but what it appeared happened when he tried to punch me and I side stepped and brought the cane down onto his arm was that his arm broke bad enough to give him a compound fracture, bone sticking out the skin.
fight over.

And yes I agree with you, I am more willing ot use a big stick before I use a knife.
But if worse comes to worse I wont hesitate.
Or at least I hope I wont.
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Old March 26, 2001, 09:55 PM   #25
Griff
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To those who carry an ASP. How do you carry it? I carry one on duty but it sticks out too far for me to carry off-duty even with a long t-shirt. As far the ulimate backup weapon I think it is your knowledge and ability in hand-to-hand combat. I've been a cop 7 years now and can tell you all to go to as many defensive tactics courses as you can. You will use that knowledge alot more than your guns.
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