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Old December 19, 2002, 02:47 PM   #26
Bogie
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Maybe if the discussion was about marketing strategies for emerging technology...
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Old December 19, 2002, 04:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
An American would look at it and say that the easiest way to do it would place a toggle between point A and point B. A German would look at it and see that by connecting a toggal from a to c and another from C to B it would reduce the stress on point D and be more German.

Wow. I've known that for years, but could never put my finger quite on it. Here a master has put it into words.

You can even see the same thing with cars. Ford does it one way, Chevy another, and Chrysler another way yet. Each has its own engineering 'culture' that is differnent and gets passed down over the years.
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Old April 2, 2006, 03:18 PM   #28
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Worth a bump as some topics never get old.
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Old October 27, 2007, 04:34 PM   #29
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So, whats the consensus, break in or no break in?
I wish I could start one of those question poles, but I don't know how. Perhaps one of you guys can. It would be very interesting to see how many do, and how many don't break in their barrels.
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Old October 27, 2007, 05:17 PM   #30
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This topic comes up from time to time and invariably somebody will pull up an old McMillan post.And most will ridicule anybody that disagrees.

My idiosyncracy is that I clean my barrels until I get the copper out.It's not necessarily an accuracy enhancement,but my thinking is that anything trapped underneath the copper can cause corrosion.If your barrel is easy to clean,great.If not some repetitive firing and cleaning can help.(all barrels are not McMillan BTW).

Neither I nor anybody else has anything other than opinion about what this does to accuracy.If you set out to prove what you already believe,that is the result you will get.
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Old October 27, 2007, 07:55 PM   #31
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All I can say is this. My son and I bought the same rifles. He broke his in according to a popular method and I didn't. The results, they shot the same, or nearly the same. We switched rifles back and forth on nemerous outings, and the patterns were nearly identical. I shot 1/2 to 1 inch groups with my rifle and his, and he did the same. My opinion, just keep them clean and use good ammo.
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Old October 27, 2007, 08:49 PM   #32
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Great wisdom from a great man..... I really enjoy the fact that this forum attracts some incredible experts like the late Mr. McMillan.
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Old December 26, 2008, 09:32 PM   #33
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Thank you GAle

I might have ruined my new rifle with all the products they try to hawk you to buy.
Now I wont.
Thank you for caring.
Michael
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Old December 26, 2008, 09:51 PM   #34
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Wow!!! A near 8 year old thread and the argument still rages. I think this says it best:
Quote:
I think it is the height of arrogance to believe a novice can improve a barrel using a cleaning rod more than that a barrel maker can do with 30 years of experience and a * million dollars in equipment .
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Old December 26, 2008, 10:09 PM   #35
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Great post! Most of it just reinforces what my Dad, Grandfathers and a Great-grandfather taught me.
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Old December 31, 2008, 03:06 AM   #36
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Wonderfully informative post with so much useful information. I never did understand why barrel break in would work and Gale does a fantastic job of stating the obvious and explaining the not so obvious. We learn from an expert that it's not simply a matter of not working when in fact certain barrel break in techniques using abrassives damage rifling, ruin accuracy and shorten barrel life! Gale makes it all seem so obvious by recounting his personal experience. This is information only a world class barrel maker with years of experience would know and he has no real reason to share it with us. In fact he could sell more barrels if he went along with the barrel break in BS many of the other manufacturers advocate. That tells me all I need to know about the character of Gale McMillan. Never met him but I wish I had.

I just bought a brand new Ruger Hawkeye in .270 caliber. I haven't fired it yet. I've never "broken in" any of my rifle barrels. I was wondering if perhaps I should give one of these "modern" break in techniques a try. Now I know better.

Many thanks Gale.
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Old December 31, 2008, 03:57 AM   #37
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Thanks for this thread, much appreciated.
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Old December 31, 2008, 06:27 AM   #38
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A superb collection of wisdom from this obviously passionate gentleman - I count myself unfortunate to have missed crossing paths with him when he was corresponding with others.

Here is a question ... is the quality of Mcmillan barrels still the same as when he was alive? In other words is his legacy being faithfully continued in manufacturing terms? I shoot 1000 yard match and will be in the market for a new barrel in the near future so ...

Cheers, Tiki.
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Old April 24, 2012, 07:14 PM   #39
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Missing you tonight Gale!
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Old April 24, 2012, 07:35 PM   #40
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Thanks, dZ.
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Old April 24, 2012, 09:42 PM   #41
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Interesting read.

No necro thread killers yet?
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Old April 24, 2012, 10:13 PM   #42
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Very wise words dZ!!

In my job before retiring (metallurgical engineer) I knew the guru of this cryogenic process and our company did extensive testing on tooling (supposed to last longer) and gear wear (supposed to last longer). The gears treated definitely lasted longer! The tooling did not show any improvement. I don't know why it would make a barrel more accurate. It "should" make them last longer but a 4140 steel barrel might last longer while a stainless (less ferrite) wouldn't. If you're going to try it, test it. Don't take anyone's word for it working or not working. Including the salesman.

Quote:
my thinking is that anything trapped underneath the copper can cause corrosion
Just something for thought. If something is trapped underneath copper it is no longer exposed to the air (H2O). Therefore it shouldn't cause rust since it takes oxygen to cause rust or ferrous oxide (FeO).

Last edited by warbirdlover; April 24, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old April 25, 2012, 08:43 AM   #43
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Quote:
If something is trapped underneath copper it is no longer exposed to the air (H2O). Therefore it shouldn't cause rust since it takes oxygen to cause rust or ferrous oxide (FeO).
That sounds nice, but many years ago, my chrome-moly varmint rifle barrel was ruined because I thought it shot better from a fouled bore and left it in a closet, leaning against a metal sewer vent stack, which must have condensed moisture on it during the winter. When I looked at it in the spring, I could barely see through it! It was badly pitted and it took almost forever for solvent to saturate the rust enough to get a cleaning rod through it. (There was NO rust on the outside surfaces of the rifle, which were protected with Rig.)

Funny thing, though; despite being very pitted, it still shot very well (5/8" prone group at 200 yards). I sold that rifle because I couldn't stand having such a pitted barrel on a rifle.

The key is not that oxygen as a gas can get under the copper, but its the moisture (H20) that can provide enough oxygen to cause rust, and will seep under the copper in various locations, probably carrying firing contaminants to create electrolytic corrosion. Regardless, centerfire chrome moly barrels should be cleaned as soon as reasonably possible after firing.

Twenty-two LR rimfire barrels are not subjected to the same conditions as centerfire barrels, due to the wax applied to them every shot. There are no .22LR bullets manufactured that do not have a wax coating. Some bullet waxes are harder than others, but they are all coated. That's why it's generally safer to buy a used .22LR rifle that hasn't been cleaned than a centerfire with a dirty bore. (Regardless, I like to run a patch through all used bores before buying.)
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Last edited by Picher; April 26, 2012 at 11:22 AM.
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Old April 25, 2012, 09:41 AM   #44
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Copper or no, a dry and clean piece of steel in a high-humidity climate will rust. My aged FIL had several shotguns and rifles which had been in a hall closet for years. I don't know if he had done any preservative oiling before storage, or what sort of cleaning, but there were rust spots inside and out.
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Old April 25, 2012, 10:15 AM   #45
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This one was saved a few years ago, but I misplaced it. My bad.

Now, it resides in its own uncluttered folder.

Thanks.

salty
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:37 PM   #46
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Thanks Gale

Was just going through the 'break-in-barrel' youtubes & articles,
and felt 'hmmm is that right?' do you really need to go through
this process that everyone seems to tweek & do a bit different?

What of the guys whose guns run fine without any of that?

Gale, from years yonder, answered all those questions.

Thanks, Gale
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