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Old October 16, 2006, 11:00 PM   #1
jben
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357 magnum +p

I just thought this was funny. I was at a Sportsman's Warehouse today browsing around and looking at some of the handguns in the counter. There was a man there looking at a Smith j-frame, and asking the clerk about it. The clerk was telling him about it, and the man asked what kind of ammo he should use in it. The clerk told him "it's a very good gun, it can shoot 38 +p as well as 357 mag+p ammo! " I didn't say anything about that, but told him that I too have a model 60, and that I also thought they were good guns. jben
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Old October 16, 2006, 11:33 PM   #2
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There is 357 Mag +P+, it rare, and I have no idea what gun you use it in. My guess is an N Frame, or Ruger Suepr Redhawk. Most definetly not a snub nose though. Why not just get a 44 mag at that point?
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Old October 17, 2006, 01:13 AM   #3
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Krieger might know something I don't on this one. I've never heard of nor seen a +p magnum load. By definition a Magnum is a "high pressure" load to begin with...

Corbon/B-Bore hot loads are listed as Magnums - not +p. I really don't know if there is a hotter load out there commercially loaded.

And, as Krieger point out, what's the point? I can (and do) load 180 gr Hardcasts up to 1350 fps in my 6" GP100. I have no reason to go hotter than that - and that is truly one stout load.
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Old October 17, 2006, 01:36 AM   #4
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Actually, there is a .357mag. +P. It is called the .357 Maximum. Half kidding guys and girls. There is such a cartridge as the Maximum. It was made for hunting and silhouette competition.Dan Wesson and Ruger made guns for this. There may be others. The load kept blow torching the forcing cones on the revolvers and replacing parts was expensive with little or no gain over the large bores and is in limbo as we post.Some may still be using it.
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Old October 17, 2006, 09:33 AM   #5
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357

The 357 maximum is longer than the 357 case so it is a different cartridge totally and is not a plus P .357.
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Old October 17, 2006, 10:37 AM   #6
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The deal was though, they were talking about and looking at a 2" j frame, hardly a 357 maximum platform. I had just never heard a 357 referred to as plus p before. jben
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Old October 17, 2006, 11:09 AM   #7
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I have seen .357 Magnum ammunition marked as +P before. IIRC, Georgia Arms has a load that is so marked. I have a supply of it and have shot some of it through my S&W 686 with no ill effects that I could discern.

But, as far as SAAMI is concerned, there ain't no such thing. There is no spec for .357 Mag +P. All you know about any .357 Mag ammo so marked is that it exceeds SAAMI pressure specs. NO manufacturer of handguns will rate their .357 Mag guns for +P: since there is no spec for it, the sky's the limit.
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Old October 17, 2006, 11:48 AM   #8
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This is slightly off topic, but my understanding is that the .357 Mag casing is only longer so that it couldn't be fired in the older .38 Special only guns. So in that respect, can you load a .38 Special case to .357 Mag specs?
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Old October 17, 2006, 12:57 PM   #9
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I'm not entirely certain, but I don't think there are SAAMI specs for either .38 Special +P or .38 Super +P, either.
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Old October 17, 2006, 01:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
I'm not entirely certain, but I don't think there are SAAMI specs for either .38 Special +P or .38 Super +P, either.
Mike -- it turns out that both .38 Spl and .38 Super are exceptions to the rule in that they do have SAAMI +P pressure specs. 9mm and .45 ACP also have SAAMI +P specs.

I found a list of SAAMI specs here. Since this isn't a direct link to the SAAMI site, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the link, and I know that the list linked to is not exhaustive.
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Old October 17, 2006, 01:38 PM   #11
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So in that respect, can you load a .38 Special case to .357 Mag specs?
Not a good idea, even if you are shooting the resulting round in a gun chambered for .357 Mag.

The problem is case capacity, or more specifically, case volume. With high volume (usually slower burning) powders that completely fill a .357 Mag case, it isn't that much of a problem since the physical charge won't fit in the somewhat smaller .38 Spl case. But, with low volume powders, you can end up overpressuring if you are loading what would be a max load if it were loaded in a longer .357 Mag case. The charge is in a smaller volume to start with if loaded in a .38 Spl case, meaning that the resulting initial pressure will be that much higher, especially when you consider that the low volume powders also tend to be fast burning powders which tend to give "spikey" pressure curves. The pressure spikes quickly in a smaller than intended space. Not Good.
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Old October 17, 2006, 02:19 PM   #12
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That is a good reference page, GB.

I may have been thinking of the .38 +P+ not having SAAMI specs.
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Old October 17, 2006, 03:17 PM   #13
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I may have been thinking of the .38 +P+ not having SAAMI specs.
Probably so. You never really hear about +P+ loads except in those few that have SAAMI defined +P specs, and that's for a reason. All +P means in the vast majority of cartridges that do not have +P defined is that the pressures exceed established specs. For those few cartridges that do have +P specs, you do see +P+, and all that means is that the pressures exceed that of the +P specs.

In either case, you shoot the stuff at your own risk. In either case, the sky's the limit. Caveat Emptor.
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Old October 18, 2006, 06:04 PM   #14
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Here is a 357 Maximum. That little cartridge next to it under the barrel is a 357 Magnum.

With the Max you can toss a 158 out at the speeds of the original 357 Magnum. My starting load out of the load manuals gave me 1550 with a 158 using 4227. I have not even begun to really work up a hot load yet.

The gun is FUN if there was ever a gun that just has the word associated with it. Loading a Maximum round is like sticking a rifle round in a revolver. These things are just plain huge relative to a 38 special.
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Old October 19, 2006, 12:54 AM   #15
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Look folks. Most people are aware that the .357 maximumn case is longer than the .357 magnum and the maximumn fills a different niche than the 357. I was trying an attempt at humor as well as be serious. Guess it didn't work real well. Laugh it up or I will start puns.
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Old October 20, 2006, 09:49 PM   #16
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I think the clerk in the store probably said .357 Mag +P to make it sound impressive. There is officially no such thing.
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Old October 21, 2006, 05:51 AM   #17
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FWIW..
Gerogia Arms catalogs a .357magnum +P despite their being no such official critter.
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Old October 21, 2006, 06:34 AM   #18
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It's interesting how this discussion turned out. Webleymkv, you said what I thought all along, and to tell you the truth, I didn't get the impression that this person was very well versed in such things. This was a young person, and my impression was they were a little unsure about what they were telling this customer. I also sorta got the impression that the customer knew them. jben
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Old March 21, 2016, 11:25 PM   #19
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Georgia Arms does make a round called "deer stopper" .357 mag that is +P..... and believe me it is +P. There is a noticeable difference in the recoil. Shot many of these through my Ruger security six 4 inch with no problems. Old post but wanted to add my 2 cents.
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Old March 21, 2016, 11:29 PM   #20
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Welcome Stevenite.
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Old March 21, 2016, 11:50 PM   #21
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Thank you sir. I appreciate it. I ran across this post looking for more +P rounds and found out GA arms still makes them. Just wanted to spread the word if anyone is looking for them. Not that anyone needs +P in 357...lol, but if they want them they are around.

http://www.georgia-arms.com/new-357-...ollow-point-p/

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Old March 22, 2016, 06:51 AM   #22
Mike Irwin
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This thread died almost 10 years ago.

No need to reopen one this old, especially given that many of the players in it moved on a long time ago.

If you want to talk about the subject. by all means start a new topic -- given Georgia Arms' offering, it would be a good discussion.

Going to close this one.
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