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Old February 3, 2001, 10:12 PM   #1
feinwerkbau
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I recently had to kill a squirrel in my yard(they've been chewing on the attic insulation) with an air rifle, and I have to admit, I felt pretty guilty about it. I don't have a problem with eating meat that butchers kill or friends hunt, and I don't mind other people hunting, I'm just squeamish about doing it myself. Anyway, I would love to start deer hunting sometime, except I would like to just shoot them with a paintball gun. The range on these CO2 guns doesn't seem to be very far, 40-50 yards max, which might be a problem. Has anyone tried something like this before? Would I need to go to a hunter safety course?
Thanks in advance.
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Old February 3, 2001, 10:41 PM   #2
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[Edited by Gizmo99 on 02-04-2001 at 12:16 PM]
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Old February 3, 2001, 11:08 PM   #3
abrahamsmith
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BAD IDEA!

In most areas, if caught, you'd be fined for animal abuse or some such. It may well be considered poaching (using unauthorized weapon), in which case, the punishment is EXTREME. (in WI, they take ALL our guns AND your car, and you can never own guns again, or something like that)

If you want to hunt but not kill, just bring a camera!

Furthermore, if you ever DO want to go hunting, you don't want deer which have bad experiences with people in trees with guns....


Edited by Gizmo99 for compliance with TFL policies.



[Edited by Gizmo99 on 02-04-2001 at 06:51 AM]
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Old February 4, 2001, 01:42 AM   #4
Art Eatman
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Hey, feinwerkbau's question might be considered naive, and I can see reasons to not approve, but these responses are not appropriate to TFL. Courtesy and politeness are appropriate to the "High Road".

Apologies are in order.

Feinwerkbau, I suggest checking with a camera shop about the possibility of having crosshairs set into a camera lens (I've thought of this before, but have been too lazy to follow up.)

If feasible, then mount the camera on an old rifle stock, with a cable release connected to some simple hinged trigger. Go hunting. "Shoot" a deer. If the crosshairs are on a vital area, it's a success. If on, say, the abdomen or the hindquarters, Grade F as in flunked.

A general comment: At around age six or seven, a regular chore for me was catching a chicken for lunch/supper. I learned all about disassembling an animal for food. When your choice is between squeamish and hunger, one inevitably chooses "Food!". But not everybody is that fortunate.

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Old February 4, 2001, 11:04 AM   #5
abrahamsmith
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Apology, but...

I do apologize if my original comments were taken as a personal attack. I certainly did not mean them as a personal attack, though, I do stand by my comments that the "paintball hunting" idea is not wise. Allow me to elaborate in a hopefully more polite manner:

As you can see from these first replies, other hunters would not appreciate this action. Hunters tend to be very concerned about the safety and quality of their game as well as the actions of other hunters.

For example, if someone in an area starts to see deer wander around with red and yellow splotches on their hides, he's going to think it is very odd, and wonder what's going on. He may take the game, then he'll have to register it at a local station. The station, also thinking it's odd, will report it to the DNR office in your area and they will investigate. Thus, they're on the trail right away.

And, if either 1) it happens more than once or 2) anyone is told about it, then they might well track down the perpetrator and,as mentioned before, inflict serious penalties.


With this in mind, it would be legally unwise to do so.

In these days of waning support for hunting and gun ownership, one of the last things the effort needs is local press about what many would consider to be irresponsible hunting.

It has been my experience that many non-hunters can swallow the idea of killing game quickly and cleanly so they do not starve and overpopulate, but most cannot accept shooting them merely for the sake of doing so.

With this in mind, it would be politically unwise to do so.

Personally, I go hunting quite a lot, but often, I come upon fine game, but simply decide not to shoot because I don't really need the meat for any real reason. These hunts end up being very slow, pleasent walks through the woods.

Realizing that I'd like some record of my stalking ability, I am now in the market for a good camera. Consider "camera hunting" with the two points above. It is very legal, AND it is very politically safe. (afterall, consider how many "greens" are bird watchers, etc).

As for crosshairs in the lens, this sound like a pretty good idea. I don't think you'd have to get them custom-installed, though: I've seen attatchments for some spotting scopes which allow them to be used as the lens for a SLR camera, and some of those spotting scopes have cross hairs.

Best of all, you have a permanent record of the hunt, AND you can do this year-round (i.e., not freeze your keester off in late november).

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope I got the message across in a more civil, less personal, way.

Happy (camera) Hunting!
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Old February 4, 2001, 11:35 AM   #6
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I got into a "discussion" with an anti-hunter, one time, whose central thesis was that with a scope-sighted rifle, there was just nothing to deer hunting. No challenge. Just sit there, see Bambi, point it and pull.

I offered the camera-with-crosshairs suggestion, and explained that I'm a walking hunter. I offered a $1,000 bet that he couldn't bring me a picture with the crosshairs in the appropriate amount of lead to hit a running deer.

No bet.

Art
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Old February 4, 2001, 12:18 PM   #7
Al Thompson
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Politeness counts..........

I have not contemplated paint ball hunting, so have no opinion. I do know that there was a spate of this going on in Africa with elephants as the target.

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Old February 4, 2001, 12:30 PM   #8
abrahamsmith
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Isn't angering an elephant a rather dangerous prospect?

I mean, if I were going to shoot at something which can trample me to teatch without a second thought, (espescially at the range which a painball gun can shoot), I'd want it to STOP when I shoot it...
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Old February 4, 2001, 02:24 PM   #9
feinwerkbau
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Well, I guess it was a pretty silly idea. Plus, it would be hard to hit a deer with a slow, round glob of paint moving maybe 100fps at 35yds. Although that "camera hunting" thing is pretty boring too: waiting in a tree stand for hours in the hopes of taking a picture of the deer. Someday I'll settle for the real thing though.
FWB
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Old February 4, 2001, 04:58 PM   #10
Art Eatman
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feinwerkbau: You don't need a gun to hunt. You need a gun to shoot, and to eat.

1. How much sitting do you think these photographers do, to put those pictures in the magazines?

2. Why sit? Learn to stalk. Sneak up on Ol' Bucky and kick him out of bed and see if he's the biggest buck in the pasture. (The real test is finding him the second time.)

Whether you hunt or not, work on your woods craft. There is a lifetime of learning out there, and our society tends to eat into your "real" time in the outdoors.

Learn to call coyotes. You don't have to shoot them. Lots of times, I just call them in to watch. In the far back country where I do some of my playing, I've had coyotes come to the truck in mid-afternoon, circling around and barking. I guess they're saying, "Where's my rabbit, you SOB? You promised me a rabbit!"

I've sat on the ground waiting for a deer, and had a fox come so close that I called him to me by just pursing my lips and mouse-squeaking. When I tapped him on the nose with the toe of my boot, Pandemonium City erupted!

There's lots more to it than shooting.

Keep on thinking, keep on asking...

Best regards,

Art
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Old February 5, 2001, 10:55 AM   #11
griz
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Hey Art

Well said. I once tried to tell a non hunter that there was a lot more to hunting than shooting critters. He looked at me as if I was Mars. There is nothing like the thrill of seeing them before they see you.
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Old February 6, 2001, 02:49 PM   #12
Dr.Rob
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In Colorado paintballs would be considered 'harrassing" wildlife and you would be prosecuted under the 'interfering with lawful hunting" laws.

Laws in your state may vary.

If you are interested about that camera set up check out the Fotosniper camera at http://www.sovietski.com
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Old February 6, 2001, 07:15 PM   #13
MountainGun44
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I like the camera with crosshairs idea. I have seen them for sale years ago in a magazine. To be fair, it has to be during deer season, in a legal area. No "shooting" on golf courses or at zoos!

:-)
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Old February 6, 2001, 07:22 PM   #14
dZ
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i have a 3-9 tasco on my paintball rifle
at 300 fps its is zippy enough to tag a squirel
now if it could hold smaller than a 1 foot group at 60 feet...

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Old February 7, 2001, 08:06 PM   #15
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I think this has already been covered, but I concur that this sounds like abuse. Of course, so does "catch and release", to me.

I think anyone who eats any kind of flesh owes it to themselves and the fauna they consume to be intimately involved in the process at least once. The only vegetarians I really respect are those who tell me they don't eat meat because they don't have the guts to kill something. At least they know it.

Some have been able to touch deer. Not many, and I think it helps to either have a clear heart, or an empty head. Either can apparently work, though I'm not sure that both is better.
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Old February 7, 2001, 08:10 PM   #16
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My wife and I lived in Poland for few years and missed hunting (no guns allowed) so we used to go stalking roe deers in the woods with a camera often.

We used a camera with 155mm telephoto lens and the "shot" only counted if the deer was centered on the photo and the length of the deer was more than the 2" on a 4"x6" print. That means we had to be within about 100 feet of the animal. Many times we got within 50 feet of these deers by sitting just of a trail and waiting for the animal to come by us.

We did this all year long but had most success in the winter when there were snow on the ground. We once tracked a particularly large hoove print on the snow for about 3 hours and found a pony in the middle of the forest. I have no idea where that pony came from.

During the 3 years we lived in Poland we "shot" over 300 deers along with 11 european boars and 1 pony.

For us, the thrill of hunting in in stalking and tracking the animal. Shooting is only the icing on the cake but not necessary for a successful hunt.
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Old February 7, 2001, 09:25 PM   #17
Al Thompson
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Great post Taco......

For me, the hunt quits and the killing starts when I chose to take an animal for my use.

The stalk is the key. Ambush or a true stalk, if I've beaten an animal in it's environment, I've connected with my roots.

The killing part is technical.

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Old February 7, 2001, 10:53 PM   #18
Keith J
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I am against paintball/Softair

And any other form of hostile use of weapons against live, non-threatning human activity. I won't try to stop anyone, I just will not get into this kind of "play war" where the object is to simulate gunfire on living humans.

I had enough of this in the military, where it belongs.

The other day a coworker suggested this kind of entertainment for a well-deserved day off. I offered instead a complete day at the range and I would supply all the real ammo. Sporting clays, action pistol and rifle. No way. Too violent by one dissenter's opinion.

I better stop because my blood is boiling. Paintball is non-violent where target shooting is.

Back to topic, don't EVER shoot at game with a gun not capable of taking it cleanly. Paintball isn't hunting. Its simulation of shooting.
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Old February 8, 2001, 07:22 AM   #19
Al Thompson
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Looks like this thread has run it's race.

Closed.

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