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Old August 11, 2014, 12:28 PM   #51
Walt Sherrill
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The S&W SD9VE is a much-improved version of a gun introduced some years ago -- when it was originally a close copy of the Glock design. (Glock took S&W to court and won on patent issues, I think.)

The trigger on the SD9VE is not the best -- and while S&W will improve it if you send it back to the factory -- having to send it back makes it a long "break-in" process.

There are many guns with good reputations for durability/liability that can be had USED for a reasonable price -- you don't have to buy NEW.

As suggested above, the SIG P2022 is a good solid gun. It's not highly regarded by many SIG lovers due, it seems, to the fact that it has a polymer frame rather than the metal SIG frame. Some of the newest SIGs also have polymer frames, and it offends many SIG loyalists.
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Old August 11, 2014, 12:55 PM   #52
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As suggested above, the SIG P2022 is a good solid gun. It's not highly regarded by many SIG lovers due, it seems, to the fact that it has a polymer frame rather than the metal SIG frame. Some of the newest SIGs also have polymer frames, and it offends many SIG loyalists.
I disagree with this 100%. Many Sig loyalist have one of these in the safe. It is the P250 IMHO that the Sig loyalist hate.

The SP2022 trigger is unSig like in that it is long but very smooth in the DA trigger. DA reminds me of a revolver trigger. SA trigger is good but not as good as the traditional P series but when you consider the price it is a solid gun.

Mags are the downside with these pistols. Most of the time they come with only one these days vs the 3 of the days of the "German SP2022" which came with 3 and night sites but with the current free mag deal this pistols is a steal at the sub $400 price.
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Old August 11, 2014, 01:55 PM   #53
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RE: SIG loyalists and SP2022s...

You may be right about the SP2022, but I never noticed any enthusiasm for the 2022 among the several SIG enthusiasts I know or have shot with; darned few of them had 2022s or the earlier (similar) 2340. While I often saw SIGs in our local IDPA matches, I saw only ONE 2022 (and that gun might have been a 2340.) When I asked about them, they all commented about the polymer frame...

I do agree about most SIG enthusiasts' disdain for the P250 -- and the frame and trigger seem to be the turnoff for most of those folks.

I acquired a 2340 some time back in a trade, same basic gun as the 2022, Slightly different shape on parts of the frame -- and the rails. But the slide looks the same, and the mags are the same. It was a good gun, but I was looking for something different. Probably should have kept it.
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Old August 11, 2014, 02:06 PM   #54
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You may be right about the SP2022, but I never noticed any enthusiasm for the 2022 among the several SIG enthusiasts I know or have shot with; darned few of them had 2022s or the earlier (similar) 2340. While I often saw SIGs in our local IDPA matches, I saw only ONE 2022 (and that gun might have been a 2340.) When I asked about them, they all commented about the polymer frame...
If you look over at the Sig Forum, a place I am not much of a fan of, you will see lots of love for the gun. Bruce Gray one of the best Sig smiths in the business carries one IIFC.

It is a good budget gun. I personally put it right there with just about any other DA/SA polymer. I used to own a HK USP 9mm and a P30 neither of which are still in the safe but the SP2022 remains!
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Old August 11, 2014, 03:59 PM   #55
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I have shot all three of the firearms mentioned in the original post. The Beretta was wonderful as a range gun. The grip was very wide and I didn't like the slide mounted safety.
I qualify Expert or Distinguished Expert every year at my job with the Glock 19. Having said that, I wouldn't own one - they don't fit me and I hate the trigger.
[quote]Love the CZ75 Compact, but a GLOCK is a GLOCK[/quote
*Sigh*, and you're right, absolutely nothing can be done to make the Glock anything BUT a Glock... (PLEASE NOTE - HUMOR!)
I happen to be partial to CZ, although some here might be surprised by that. For the perfect range and carry CZ, I'd have to say I'd go with the CZ PCR, alloy frame, decocker, loaded chamber indicator, low mount Novak style sights, 14 round magazine with the classic look and feel of the original CZ-75.



You might be hard pressed to FIND a PCR, as it's been kinda shoved out of the way for the new CZ poly pistols, the P-07 and P-09. The P-07 Duty, especially the newest version, it quite the do-all sidearm. The ONE thing you might have an issue with, with the P-07 is the incredibly aggressive grip texturing - makes it hard to carry concealed if you're not wearing a garment underneath, as it cheese-graters your side while you walk.
If that's not an issue, and you like polymer, this really might be something to look into.



Buds Gun Shop online has them for $409 and change. Holsters are available, and parts, plus incredible custom gunsmithing for when you can afford it, if you want it, at http://cajungunworks.com/ They just got done with my CZ P-09, and the difference rocks.

CZ holsters are around, and while this company IS a bit pricey, I am VERY partial to the rigs from http://www.highnoonholsters.com/ - you get more than you pay for, IMHO.

Hope that helps, sir.
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Old August 11, 2014, 07:09 PM   #56
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Czech vs beretta's

I had a full size CZ excellent pistol good ergonomic cannot go wrong. I just didn't trip my trigger so to speak. Have a full size 92 and a compact 92. The compact shoots so well that you almost have to try to miss. A crossbreed holster does not care if it is full size or compact. Magazines beretta has them on their website sometimes on sale. I love the compact! I have never owned a Glock but I have shot them too much grip angle for my style/hold of a pistol they also shot to the left for me. The compact 92 is smoother than my CZ was and shoots better also.
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Old August 11, 2014, 09:36 PM   #57
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If you like the CZ compact you might check out the Tristar C-100. Won't find a pretty blued or stainless finish, but the guns are generally of high quality and the price is right.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...mer+Grips+Blue
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:22 PM   #58
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Own the Glock and CZ P-01 Compact but have fired all 3.

If I have more than 1 gun, I would pick the CZ because it just fits your hand like a glove and are great shooters and very accurate.

If it is to be my only one for some time, I would take the Glock 19 because they are great in their own right and mags / parts are cheap.
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Old August 12, 2014, 11:12 AM   #59
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"If you like the CZ compact you might check out the Tristar C-100. Won't find a pretty blued or stainless finish, but the guns are generally of high quality and the price is right."

Actually I have read lots of bad stuff about the rifling in the barrels of these guns, and terrible customer service. Does anyone own one that can tell me otherwise?
Nothing wrong with the S&W Glock... err I mean SD9VE. It's the GLOCK knock off (S&W sued by Glock for the design of predecessor) priced what everyone knows the GLOCK should be sold for. Flame on.
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Old August 12, 2014, 11:39 AM   #60
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The S&W SD9VE is what it is. It is a avg at best polymer gun which is not refined and does not stand out except for the price. I am astounded that they still make it honestly. The trigger is better than the old Sigma but I would still say it's below avg at best.

You are really stepping down from the original guns you were considering if you go with this gun IMHO. That said they go bang when you pull the trigger and if you are stuck at that price point and you are willing to consider used and you like it go for it.

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems like you are not really looking for suggestions or advice but instead are looking for validation of choices you have made. In he end get the gun you are comfortable with in the price point you want to/can spend and go shoot. Honestly the cost of the gun even at the $500 price point is going to be quickly eclipsed by the cost if actually shooting it.

It seems like this is a big purchase for your house hold. If I were you I would wait. Save save save so you can get a quality gun. YMMV
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Old August 12, 2014, 10:03 PM   #61
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Anyone else have an "Honest Opinion" on the matter? I need to feel validated.

I am checking out that Sig you suggested though, just to show I do appreciate the ideas.
And yeah, it is pretty nice. Might have to put that one on my list to check out. I think I saw some Sigs at one of my LGSs. Will see if they have one of these in stock to play with. Ty for the suggestion.
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Last edited by Papa D; August 12, 2014 at 10:26 PM.
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Old August 13, 2014, 09:04 AM   #62
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Papa D what I am trying to say is that if budget is the issue you are better off saving up to get a quality gun you want vs the gun you can afford today.

I would really look around for a used gun. You can get a Glock 19 for $350 to $400 in most areas. Police trade in 92FS can be found for $350. You can get a surplus BHP for under $400. That is just a little higher than the price of the SD9VE NIB.

Lots of good advice in this thread good luck.....
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Old August 13, 2014, 05:21 PM   #63
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Honestly, if budget were a concern, I would just go buy a Ruger and be done with it. The SR9/9C and now you can get the E model for $300 plus. Or find a deal on a P95. You can't go wrong with a Ruger. Good value.
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Old August 13, 2014, 06:26 PM   #64
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Three very different choices. My brother-in-law is a Glock .40 enthusiast and though I shoot his accurately, none of them fits my grip very well and I don't like shooting more than 50 rounds with them - I feel too much vibration through the polymer frame - so I wouldn't want it as a range gun. I rented a Beretta 92FS several times at the range I go to and while I like a lot about it, the grip was just too thick for me. I tried a CZ 75 and it just felt right - great fit, accuracy and very light recoil. So I bought a 75 BD (I like the de-cocker more than a safety). I really wanted a compact, so I bought the CZ P-01. It has an alloy frame vs steel, but still soaks up the recoil compared to a polymer frame and is very comfortable and accurate. I had originally wanted the compact PCR version, but could not find it. The two are very similar, with the P-01 having a light rail.

So bottom line for me is that a compact CZ can serve as a HD, carry and range gun.
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Old August 14, 2014, 01:56 PM   #65
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Actually I have read lots of bad stuff about the rifling in the barrels of these guns, and terrible customer service. Does anyone own one that can tell me otherwise?
I've heard both good and bad things about TriStar CS, as I have for most companies. That being the case, I wouldn't assume they were tops at customer service, but probably not among the worst either. I am very happy with my T-120 from TriStar and haven't had a need to try their CS department.

I've not heard anything about the barrel rifling that you mentioned. What did you hear, and what's the source? I've seen a lot of reviews of the C-100 indicating that it is one of the best of the TriStars. You can check the CZ clone club at the original CZ forum if you're interested.

At any rate, I would choose a CZ or clone of a CZ from your choices, but I'm not fond of shooting Glocks. Just too different from other guns that I like to be worth adjusting.
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Old August 14, 2014, 03:36 PM   #66
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I'll try not to detour this too much lol but I have owned and subsequently sold all of the Beretta's I have owned through the years, though they were great shooters for me anyway. Just too uncomfortable for me to EDC IWB year-round in Florida.

I own a Glock 26 that is more often than not used with a G19 magazine and X-grip extension sleeve adapter, and I have also rented a G19 on numerous occasions (I should just break down and buy one!).

I also own a CZ, but the P-07 vice the 75 Compact, and with a P-01 on the way soon, in addition to two CZ clones by Tanfoglio and Sarsilmaz.

Without any shadow of a doubt, the Glock has more support with an endless network of parts and aftermarket availability. However, my CZ is my EDC. It (and the clones) shoot better than any Glock I've fired, they have better ergos (to me), and they just feel right.

From a price standpoint, I think the P-07 is a virtual steal, as I picked my first one up NIB and with a third magazine for $465 OTD after shipping and transfer fees.

Of course, you could always try finding my second favorite pistol, the Steyr C9-A1 or it's M-A1 & S-A1 brethren...
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Old August 14, 2014, 04:03 PM   #67
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My only problem with my CZ 75 Compact that I bought back in the 90s was the dual spring recoil spring assembly; It just didn't always have enough power to close the slide fully when chambering a round. I substituted a single spring of higher weight and haven't had a problem since.

In retrospect, CZ probably would have taken care of the problem, but I generally avoid sending guns back to manufacturers.
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Old August 14, 2014, 06:33 PM   #68
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I've had several Compacts (the safety-equipped Compact, not the decocker-equipped mall "c" compacts) and never had one with dual springs. (Thats was in the late 90's, which was not too long after they were introduced.)

I wonder why there was a difference?
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:54 AM   #69
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WVSig, I understand, and I appreciate the input, as well as everyone else.

As for the SR9c, I know they have a great reputation, I just do not like the way they feel. LGS guy put one in my hand and my immediate response was "Eww". Sorry, but just not for me.

I have added one more to the list, a Stoeger(Beretta) Cougar 8000. I am heavily leaning to this. I really like it a lot. Buds has them for under $400 and I have an actual Stoeger Dealer across the highway from me. I have been in discussion with Stoeger Customer Service via Facebook chat and am very impressed with them so far.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:36 AM   #70
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I went to the gun store today. Couldn't resist, I purchased a M9. Dang thing is sweet in my opinion. To me it is just a different style of gun than a G19 or M&P. Although the M&P 9mm was tempting as well.
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Old August 15, 2014, 01:32 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by gyvel View Post
My only problem with my CZ 75 Compact that I bought back in the 90s was the dual spring recoil spring assembly; It just didn't always have enough power to close the slide fully when chambering a round. I substituted a single spring of higher weight and haven't had a problem since.

In retrospect, CZ probably would have taken care of the problem, but I generally avoid sending guns back to manufacturers.
Dual recoil spring CZ? Como?
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:45 PM   #72
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To everyone saying that a Beretta M9/92fs is too big to conceal in the warmer months, here is my response. I live in Alabama and carry my 92fs everyday. Its all about finding the right holster and a good belt. I keep mine in a Blue Line Concealment IWB. Very comfortable.

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Old August 15, 2014, 10:58 PM   #73
Papa D
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Cool. Yeah an M9 barely weighs more than a GLOCK 17. I am not a Concealed carrier yet, but dont see why it is said to be too big or heavy to carry. I live in Arkansas, BTW, so I understand good ol' Southern Summers a little.
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Old August 16, 2014, 12:58 AM   #74
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15 or 20 years ago I was at an indoor range with a bunch of other guys on a lunch break. One guy had a Beretta 92 and a Glock 19 both with lasers in the guide rods. Several guys shot both and everyone agreed, the Beretta was better for shooting at target 25 yards away.

I now own both types, but would never think of carrying either, as they are too big.
And the B92 is bigger than the G19.
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Old August 16, 2014, 09:43 AM   #75
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Cool. Yeah an M9 barely weighs more than a GLOCK 17. I am not a Concealed carrier yet, but dont see why it is said to be too big or heavy to carry. I live in Arkansas, BTW, so I understand good ol' Southern Summers a little.
I am not sure I would call 9 ounces "barely". If you carry 8 hrs a day or so, half a pound on your lower back adds up.
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