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Old August 8, 2014, 09:40 AM   #26
Papa D
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Let me clear up my statement about "a GLOCK is a GLOCK". I have the utmost respect for these guns. They were THE game changers in the 1980s. That is why it is on my list. Just not a fan of the way they feel in my hands. And that is not to say the grip angle is bad. I dont like the way any polymer gun feels.

I do prefer the feel of an all metal gun with a hammer. I am a big guy, at 6'2" and 275lbs. I make an electric Bass guitar look like a Stratocaster does on most guys, so not sure how difficult concealing the Beretta will be.
Both the Beretta and CZ75 Compact feel great in my hands. About equal actually; with the Beretta winning slightly with the controls falling perfectly for me to work without having to change my grip at all, but the CZ is more concealable with the shorter barrel, but not much lighter.

This is my first handgun purchase. Due to budget constraints, my wife has told me to "choose wisely, because this may be the only one I get to buy for a long time". So yes, I am over analyzing this for sure.
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Old August 8, 2014, 09:50 AM   #27
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Had em all. The Beretta is a very good, gun, but bigger than needed. CZ makes good guns for shooting at the range, never owned or shot one dependable enough to trust my life with though. The Glock isn't fancy, they just work.
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Old August 8, 2014, 10:06 AM   #28
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I make an electric Bass guitar look like a Stratocaster does on most guys, so not sure how difficult concealing the Beretta will be.
Why make your life more difficult than need be? What does the Beretta offer over the CZ? The Beretta is a military sidearm meant for carry in typically a drop down leg holster. If you can conceal that, you can conceal the CZ even easier. If this is your first gun let me give you some advice, easy of carry is paramount for a carry gun. If it's not easy you won't carry it, despite what you might tell yourself. Give yourself a leg up here.
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Old August 8, 2014, 10:13 AM   #29
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Hey Papa, I don't think you are over-analyzing at all. You are looking for that one very good purchase. As I mentioned before, out of those three, I would take the CZ without a doubt.
If this is going to be your only "all-around" handgun with no partner for it in the near future, maybe the budget can take a little more of a hit for this occasion. Something along the lines of a SIG P229, or an HK USP compact/P30. Put some of those in your hands and see how it feels, and they will also just run and run and run. Again, not sure what your budget is, but thought I would throw that out there.
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Old August 8, 2014, 10:52 AM   #30
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It does not matter how big you are it is hard to hide a gun like the 92FS under a T shirt and a pair of shorts.
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Old August 8, 2014, 11:15 AM   #31
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The CZ or it's clone the EAA Witness. The Witness has far more options when it comes to frames,slides and calibers. You can also mix and match all of the above on the same frame.
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Old August 8, 2014, 12:13 PM   #32
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Bought a CZ 75 BD and really liked it so wanted a compact CZ. I like the de-cocker so the CZ 75 compact (all steel) was out. Was choosing between the PCR and the P-01 (both alloy frames). I'm in CA and could not find a PCR to handle (could have ordered one on-line). Did fine the P-01 and really liked the feel, so bought it. What was surprising was that I am more accurate with the P-01 - the balance is really nice and its lighter.
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Old August 8, 2014, 03:35 PM   #33
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For an all around gun. I would go with the Glock. For a home defense/range gun I would go with the Beretta. Why those choices? Parts availability, accessories, dealers who carry them, etc. That is a major concern particular if another major run on guns or new laws come into place. I know weigh that it all my decisions for gun purchases.

The Glock and the Beretta are two of the most common guns in the world.
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Old August 8, 2014, 05:26 PM   #34
Papa D
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Yes Herdman, you nailed it on the head of the Glock and Beretta residing on the list. Again, I am not a fan of the Glock (again, I like metal, hammer fired, DA/SA guns), but am not willing to discount it, yet. My top 2 choices are the Beretta and CZ Compact. Another thing is that I work from home, so for me to CCW any of these would happen for only a few hours once or a twice a week. The availability of parts (or lack there of) are why the CZ is not the sure fire winner here, for me. The M9 has all the features I am looking for, with the parts availability and the likelihood of finding a gunsmith that can work on it. Hmm... Think I just figured it out.
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Old August 8, 2014, 05:29 PM   #35
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What is your budget? If you do not mind used and have a good transfer dealer you could get both..... a Glock and a 92FS
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Old August 8, 2014, 05:30 PM   #36
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That is a major concern particular if another major run on guns or new laws come into place. I know weigh that it all my decisions for gun purchases.
But why? When the last panic hit, even Glock magazines were impossible to find and were running $50 a piece. While they were more available, they were also more popular and thus in more demand. Trick is to stock up in the interim, even if a little bit at a time. As for parts, what parts do you need? I have pistols with thousands of rounds through them and I never needed to replace anything. If I did the internet is just a mouse cick away. I do get the point, but when I owned Glocks I never walked into my lgs looking for an extractor. I still ordered online. Mags might become a problem, but internal parts?
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Old August 8, 2014, 07:06 PM   #37
Walt Sherrill
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Originally Posted by Papa D
The availability of parts (or lack there of) are why the CZ is not the sure fire winner here, for me. The M9 has all the features I am looking for, with the parts availability and the likelihood of finding a gunsmith that can work on it. Hmm... Think I just figured it out.
Parts aren't hard to find for ANY of the guns mentioned. A wider variety of after-market parts are available for the Glock than the other guns, but those parts are typically sights and trigger mods, sought to make the Glock shoot and feel more like the other two. Those are parts which you can arguably do without.

Which CZ parts have you had difficulty finding? Which CZ parts are you likely to need? I've had Berettas, Glocks, SIGs, and the only part I ever HAD to replace (due to breakage) was a trigger return spring on a used Glock. They're all three very reliable and durable handguns.

Finding a gunsmith who can work on a CZ is NOT a problem. And almost anybody can repair a Glock. Just get the manual and order the parts. When CZ first introduced the decocker models, some gunsmiths took a while to get familiar with the changed internal mechanisms. That was YEARS ago, and nowadays it seems NOT to be an issue. The non-decocker CZ models are in some ways easier to work on than some others guns, including the 3rd Generation Smiths. (I found the Beretta to be a bit more complex than I expected. Glocks are elegantly simple.)

I like both CZs and Glocks. I'd probably not buy another Berettas (except at a good price, to resell) -- and I've had a 92, a 96, and a Vertec. But that's a matter of personal preference that should not affect another's buying decision. There's not much that any one of these three guns can do that the others two can't do just about as well.

If you like Berettas, buy one -- but the reasons you state for choosing a Beretta over the other two seems more imagined than real.

.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; August 8, 2014 at 08:41 PM.
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Old August 8, 2014, 07:33 PM   #38
Papa D
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Budget is between $400-$600.
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Old August 8, 2014, 09:33 PM   #39
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Between your two choices (since Glock seems tacked on), I would go with the CZ. I have shot Berettas much more than I have a CZ75, but I still prefer the feel of the CZ line. I haven't handled a compact, but the full-sized model fit me just fine. IMO both of the full-size models are on the large side for CC, but the compact would definitely be more manageable. Makes sense though given they were designed to be a duty weapon, and not built from the ground up with concealment in mind.

As for why I like the CZ, I prefer the grip as well as the options you have (DA/SA, SAO, Decocker, etc.). I also like the location of the controls being on the frame, as opposed to the slide. The last part isn't a deal breaker as I can disengage the safety just fine on an M9, but more of a personal preference.

Also, I don't think parts will be hard to come by for either model. You have your typical aftermarket choices, but nothing on the level of say a Glock or 1911. If you really wanted to customize your gun, there are better choices. Either way, if you want a DA/SA, double stack 9mm with a metal frame either one should suit you just fine.
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Old August 9, 2014, 08:46 AM   #40
Papa D
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Stupid me, after I had posted the "I have decided" post, I went and looked at a picture of a CZ75 compact and was immediately drawn back in. This waiting for the $$$ to be free is making my hair go gray.
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Old August 9, 2014, 12:48 PM   #41
Papa D
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Just got back from the LGS today. Checked out a Gen4 G19. To my surprise, next to the 92fs, it actually felt better, and seemed to aim more easily. Apparently my natural hand position might actually favor a Glock, and the polymer did not feel odd to me. What is happening to me?
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Old August 9, 2014, 01:53 PM   #42
Rob96
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The G19 is a do all pistol to an extent. For summer carry I prefer to carry my S&W340PD.
The Beretta 92/M9 is a full sized weapon. I liked it when it was issued to me as a USAF SP. Fall and winter is not a problem for carry.
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Old August 9, 2014, 05:06 PM   #43
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa D
Just got back from the LGS today. Checked out a Gen4 G19. To my surprise, next to the 92fs, it actually felt better, and seemed to aim more easily. Apparently my natural hand position might actually favor a Glock, and the polymer did not feel odd to me. What is happening to me?
That's one of the big changes with Gen 4 Glocks: they have different (swappable) grip inserts/segments. Older models didn't have that. Install a different set of inserts and you'd likely feel differently.
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Old August 9, 2014, 09:26 PM   #44
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The downside to the CZ is that the trigger will cam. You can feel it on every CZ 75 design.
I think CZ USA or CZ Custom has a hammer that rids the camming. I was never sure of the camming's purpose (safety?).
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Old August 9, 2014, 09:39 PM   #45
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As for parts, what parts do you need? I have pistols with thousands of rounds through them and I never needed to replace anything. If I did the internet is just a mouse cick away. I do get the point, but when I owned Glocks I never walked into my lgs looking for an extractor. I still ordered online. Mags might become a problem, but internal parts?
Exec Ordr regarding parts?
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Old August 9, 2014, 09:42 PM   #46
TunnelRat
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Exec Ordr regarding parts?
Don't buy it. It would have to apply to dozens of parts for every single make and model. They can barely figure out what it is about ARs that they want to ban and actually articulate it into law. Unless it was a Russian or Chinese owned firearms company where they could sanction the host country.
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Old August 10, 2014, 01:13 AM   #47
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Don't buy it. It would have to apply to dozens of parts for every single make and model. They can barely figure out what it is about ARs that they want to ban and actually articulate it into law.
<relieved>
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Old August 10, 2014, 08:49 AM   #48
Walt Sherrill
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I think CZ USA or CZ Custom has a hammer that rids the camming. I was never sure of the camming's purpose (safety?).
The earliest "B"-model CZs didn't have a lot of hammer cam, and the pre-Bs didn't either. It seemed to get progressively worse, over the years. The suspicious among us feel the change was forced on CZ by corporate lawyers, trying to reduce CZ's potential liability. I don't know WHY it has become more noticeable...

(For those unfamiliar with the term, camming is when you see the hammer move BACK slightly before going forward when firing from the hammer-cocked position. The hammer drop/break isn't as clean and crisp as it could be.)

As noted above, there are after-market (drop-in) hammers available from Cajun Gun Works or the CZ Custom Shop that makes camming go away. A good gunsmith can slightly change the sear/hammer interface and make it disappear as well. As for the drop-in after-market parts: it's not a hard "swap out" if you just buy the hammer and do it yourself.

Properly done, the CZ single-action trigger can come close to the 1911 crisp single-action trigger with a clean, crisp break. (Some feel the CZ best trigger will only come with the removal of the firing pin block, too. I had a well-gunsmithed CZ 75B SA that kept the firing pin block, and it was very nice.)
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Old August 11, 2014, 10:49 AM   #49
Papa D
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After talking with my wife, she shared her budget concerns with me, so I am looking at the lower priced guns more seriously. My favorite there would be the S&W SD9VE. Any current/former owners want to share their experience? (I really dont like hearing about guys who know a guy who had a mechanic who talked to a customer who had a cousin...)
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:16 AM   #50
WVsig
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Go used... you can get a better pistol for the same $$.

I would also take a close look at the Sig SP2022. There are tutone packages which can be had for $379 + shipping and transfer and you get a certificate for 2 additional mags.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=434668725
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-Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... Sam from Ronin
-The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
-Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa

Last edited by WVsig; August 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM.
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