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Old August 11, 2014, 11:47 PM   #26
bamaranger
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single action

I like the 10mm, and was trying to buy a Delta, but ended up with a G20 by default. I'd think the SA trigger would be a bit easier to hit with at distances past 25 yds or so, all else being equal, applicable I guess if one were going to hunt with their 10mm.

I've heard chatter about 1911's et al not being up to the stress that the 10mm can generate, but have no actual experience with that at all, just the web and gun shop banter.

Me, if I were going to buy a 10mm 1911......I'd likely go the Rock Island route. Probably wouldn 't shoot it enough to stress it too much, and I'd scratch the itch at minimal cost.....excluding ammo.
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Old August 12, 2014, 12:16 AM   #27
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I have been thinking of adding a "more than 45 acp power" semi auto for some time.
Look into the 45 Super.
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Old August 12, 2014, 10:15 AM   #28
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If you go the 1911 route, check out the RIA in 10mm. Read some good things about them. Good firearm for price point.
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Old August 12, 2014, 05:16 PM   #29
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10mm preference

Bamaranger , thanks for sharing a more reasonable post....I fully agree and it really boils down to personal preference and what you can afford ! My friends all have different preference in pistols and I'm glad they do but at least they don't try cramming it down your throat like its the only pistol worth having !
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Old August 13, 2014, 12:32 AM   #30
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Thanks everyone, I am likely going to go the Coonan route, I realize the gun has some needs and a learning curve and I am not afraid to take that on, overall most seem very satisfied with it.

My comment on the 10mm and not hot rodding it simply meant I would not try to load it to 44 mag energy levels, I realize that the factory (excepting BB / Cor-bon / double tap / etc and etc) loadings in 10 mm do not live up to the rounds potential.

As to the 1911 and the 10mm I have gone round and round with that talking to multiple people, smiths, etc. What I have concluded is with modern, well designed and built guns it should have an acceptable service life. Put another way... enough 10mm 1911's have been sold to people who have the time and money to put plenty of ammo through them, if the guns were failing predictably I'd expect to see more about it.

As to the 10mm I'd still love one, I just am really trying to exercise some self control and not add another round to the stable. The pics of a 10mm GP100 a friend just sent me are NOT helping with this....
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Old August 13, 2014, 01:01 AM   #31
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More than .45acp....

Quote:
I have been thinking of adding a "more than 45 acp power" semi auto for some time. Mostly due to the fact that I would like an alternative to my revolvers when it comes to a higher power round when I feel the need.

I have tried to simplify and thin the heard as much as possible for economy of scale thus adding another caliber is not something I do trivially while I have plenty of 357 around hence the appeal.
Simple choice, at first....go with the .357 as caliber of choice, or buy something new.

The sad fact is that magnum autopistols are a niche market, and other than "orphan" (discontinued) guns your choices are very limited. The Coonan is back in production, I hope it stays, but only time will tell. The Desert Eagle is in production. The LAR Grizzly, Auto Mag, and apparently the Wildey are all "orphans".

The currently available .357s are the Coonan and the Desert Eagle. They are quite different beasts. People have remarked on how big the Coonan is, but its the smallest of the magnum class autopistols.

The Coonan is a little bit bigger and heavier than a regular Govt Model 1911A1. The Desert Eagle is much larger and heavier, and needs to be fed only a certain kind of ammo (NO LEAD BULLETS). The Coonan, being recoil operated, doesn't have this restriction.

The 10mm is available in different "beefed up" versions of service autos. Loaded to its potential, its powerful enough to be in the bottom end of the real "magnum" class.

Its a matter of what you want to do with it. If you want something "more" that's still close to reasonably sized for carry, one of the 10mms fits better.

Other than the Desert Eagle, the big bore magnum autos are all "orphans" as you put it. Shame, really.

Shooting big bore magnum loads from an autoloader is a much different experience than shooting them from a revolver. Its a very different feel. And the further away you get from the Browing tilt barrel in a slide designs, the more different it is.

The Coonan and the Grizzly, both being derivatives of the 1911 style can be very accurate. The Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey can be phenomenally accurate. But these are all far from the "service/duty auto" class in size and weight.

To make the most of what you already have (.357) go with the Coonan, and live with the sticker shock. The Coonan also handles .38s with a change of springs. If you want something as close, or still in the duty gun size class, the 10mm does that, but means another caliber.

Of course, if you reload, that helps on the cost, except when you need to tool up for another caliber.
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Old August 13, 2014, 07:59 AM   #32
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To fill my itch for a hand cannon and HAND CANNON EXTREME I have a couple of Glock 20's. I hit eBay and purchased several extra slide assembles in G21 and G21S. I also purchased a Rowland 460 kit that I keep in the G21 slide.

I purchased everything used, at good prices, so I have about 1200 bucks in my two guns and extra slides.

I am still looking for a .50 GI conversion to round out this itch of mine. like to snag a used one and save some money.

http://yotak.sqvdu.servertrust.com/m...ductCode=GI-1S


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Old August 13, 2014, 06:16 PM   #33
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I have been having a lot of fun shooting my 460 Rowland XD 4" with the compensator on the barrel. It definitely gives magnum performance in a duty size gun!

The only problems I have been having are keeping the comp fixed on the barrel. The red Locktite that I have been using doesn't seem to hold when the barrel gets heated up after a couple of magazines.

The other problem is that somewhere in the ejection cycle, it puts a big dent in the side of the case and dents the case mouth.

I should mention I also have a DPM recoil reduction system installed to handle the extra power, and it seems to make a big difference.
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Old August 13, 2014, 06:52 PM   #34
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I'd personally go with the 10mm.

Better parts availability, a more widely used platform/caliber combination, better ergonomics (the length of that .357 Magnum grip is not for the small-handed!), and I'd wager better reliability. I have a friend who owned one of the older ones and we took it out back to shoot. He was using Federal 357b 125 grain SJHP. There tended to be one misfeed every magazine, with three different magazines.

I think he sold it over a year ago.

You have to remember that the Coonan is not really a true 1911. It has several very key mechanical differences, like a linkless barrel and external extractor. In my opinion (and I could be wrong) I don't think the Coonan is an inherently reliable pistol design. The .357 Magnum is a thick-rimmed revolver cartridge. It was not designed to load and cycle in a semi-automatic pistol. As cool as the concept of a semi-auto .357 Magnum is, I think a 10mm 1911 would be far more practical.

But that's just me. Really what it comes down to is what you want. I'm sure you'd enjoy either pistol.


EDIT: I know this thread is about you considering the 10mm or .357 Mag, and I usually don't like telling the OP to consider something they didn't ask about, but I'd like to throw out a suggestion in support of what some others have said. If you're looking for "above .45 ACP power", I'd look into .45 Super, and, if you really want to bump up the ballistics, .460 Rowland. Although the conversion to .460 is expensive, you could use an existing .45 ACP handgun like a Glock 21 or 1911. Just an idea.

Last edited by LouisianaAviator; August 13, 2014 at 06:57 PM.
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Old August 13, 2014, 10:33 PM   #35
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357 Magnum is cheaper and more common. Any one that says the 10MM is more powerful than the 357 magnum is at best splitting hairs. Id put a 6 inch Coonan with Buffalo bore up against any factory 10mm load as far as energy or velocity.

As far as reliable, My Coonan has been 100% with any thing 125 grain or heavier in factory loaded 357 magnum. They only issues I have ever had with it is Winchester White Box 110 grain reduced recoil. I also hear it doe not function with the CCI snake shot but that is to be expected. I have shot 110 grain reloaded rounds through my Coonan and it works fine if loaded medium to hot.

The area that I have to concede to the 10mm is capacity.

p.s. I am not saying that the 10mm is not great because it is. I have had a Glock 29 (any thing from glock that is not a 380 acp is awesome!) for a long time and love it! I am just saying that the Coonan is also a great gun. If I was to go hunting and my only choice was a 10MM or a 357 magnum id pick the 357 magnum every time but if it was for self defence Id go 10mm every time.
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Old August 14, 2014, 10:26 AM   #36
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The .357 Magnum is a thick-rimmed revolver cartridge. It was not designed to load and cycle in a semi-automatic pistol.
While certainly true, it really doesn't matter much. There are essentially two ways of getting a given cartridge in a pistol. One is to start with the cartridge design, and build a pistol around it. The other is to start with an already existing pistol, and build a cartridge to fit in it.

The 9mm Luger was designed to fit in the Luger pistol. The pistol was not designed about the 9mm round. So to the .40 S&W, it was designed to fit in a 9mm size pistol.

What was done with the Coonan was to take the cartridge, and adapt an existing (general) design around it. Yes, the Coonan is not exactly a 1911A1, but it is more similar than it is different.

Now that Coonan is back on the market, and several posters have them, we can get a good feedback on their personal experiences. Most are saying the Coonan is very reliable.

I have one of the original Coonan Model A's. You would consider it closer to the 1911, because it does use a barrel link. While I have not shot it a lot, it has been 100% reliable for me.

One thing I have heard people complain about is the "sloppy" fit of the Coonan slide, compared to (usually high end) 1911A1s. They think this is an indicator of poor quality, or execution of design. In fact, it is just the opposite.

A tight fit with the slide of a 1911 is regarded as a good thing, and a looser fit is considered "sloppy" (or worn). The Coonan is made with a looser fit, because (and they will tell you this if asked) due to the nature of the .357 (length of round, and pressures involved) the slide "flexes" as it cycles. IN a .45 or 9mm this flexing is essentially unnoticed, and inconsequential. In the .357, its a necessary thing as the gun functions, and the fit of the parts takes this into account.

I've got no particular love for the 10mm. I don't have anything against it, I just don't care about it. .357 is far more versatile, and available, particularly if you stick to factory ammo.
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Old August 14, 2014, 12:38 PM   #37
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My Coonan has been 100% with any thing 125 grain or heavier in factory loaded 357 magnum. They only issues I have ever had with it is Winchester White Box 110 grain reduced recoil. I also hear it doe not function with the CCI snake shot but that is to be expected. I have shot 110 grain reloaded rounds through my Coonan and it works fine if loaded medium to hot.
And it should also be noted for anyone not aware. That is likely more of an issue with the stock recoil spring than it is the actual gun or cartridge design.

It's simple, those two rounds that didn't function, generate relatively little recoil and gasses compared to 'hot' loads. If you get a spring to shoot .38spl loads, it would likely have no problem functioning with lighter .38 and .357mag loads.
It's obvious that the stock spring is intended for full powered .357 loads. It makes sense. Most people would be buying a .357 mag auto, for the power of that cartridge, anyway, so might as well optimize the gun to shoot those heavier loads, without beating the slide/gun up too badly. Especially, when lighter loads can function with a simple spring change.
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Old August 15, 2014, 01:14 AM   #38
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While I don't have one of the new Coonans, my understanding is that they come with springs for both .357 and .38special level loads.

The original guns also used a different magazine for .38s, but Coonan has redesigned their mag for the new guns, and while it takes a spring change to shoot .38s, the mag is the same these days.

The key to running any auto pistol is balancing the load level and recoil spring tension. Neither the Coonan nor any 10mm is any different in this regard.
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Old August 15, 2014, 03:23 PM   #39
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We've got an infrequent poster here on TFL who worked on both the original Coonan pistols and the current ones. IIRC, they've done a lot of testing with the guns even with -NO- recoil spring in them. So the proper spring is certainly critical to the running & functioning of the pistol, but I'm quite vague on just how important it is to the health and longevity of the pistol.

That's likely a discussion for genuine gun builders and tuners.

What I do know about the Coonan Classic is that the OEM spring for .357 Magnum is 22lbs and if you want the Coonan to run reliably and all the time, feed it the BEAST. It wants your full bore ammunition, that's what it eats and that's what it was designed around. If you want to make a Coonan MALF, give it wimpy ammo.

The current pistols also ship with an accessory spring specifically for shooting .38 Special and that happens to be a 10-lb spring and it's been my experience thus far that when you put that spring in, the SAME rules apply. Your .38 Special ammo also needs to be at the -FULL- end range of .38 Special. Light target stuff isn't going to work in the pistol. You'll have a manually operated repeater. (kinda neat, actually!)
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Old August 15, 2014, 04:57 PM   #40
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Your .38 Special ammo also needs to be at the -FULL- end range of .38 Special.
I second what Stevens says. In my only .38 Special trial, my Coonan Classic would not cycle with wimpy Winchester 130 gr FMJ. The .38 Sp spring seems to be set up for .38 Sp +P defensive loads. I don't have any .38 Sp guns, and I only had the Winchester box around for training kids and newbies with my .357 revolvers, so I didn't explore the issue further.

The Coonan also prefers full power .357, and can be sensitive to non-ogive bullet profiles. It doesn't like my LSWCs. This is as expected. The cartridge envelope is more restricted for most semi-autos than for revolvers. Feed it full power JHP, RNFP, and TCs, and it will run all day. Want to stuff any pug-ugly blunt bullet profile? Buy a wheel gun.

I have both, and have to say that the Coonan always puts a smile on my face.
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Old August 16, 2014, 01:25 AM   #41
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Look into the 45 Super.
Yup, made me forget all about 10mm, etc. 230 grains going 1K fps. All for the cost of a recoil spring, a mainspring and a $15.00 EGW FP stop. My all-steel Kimber likes them just fine, though shooting many of them is a little hard on my wrist. I shot enough to verify function and accuracy and since then just shoot regular 45 ACP. They work fine in the gun, though if I was shooting a lot of ACP I would pop in a lighter recoil spring.

I could load them even hotter if I wanted to. 1K just seemed like a nice, round number.

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Old August 16, 2014, 09:23 AM   #42
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The Glock 21 also handles the 45 Super nicely with a few dollars worth of parts.

Even though the OP has 357mag ammo on hand, that stash is quickly offset by the price of the Coonan, compared to inexpensively changing few parts in a already-owned 45 to allow the use of 45 Super.
Then there is the performance comparison.... Coonan 357 or Glock 21 45 Super, its an obvious choice for me.

On a few occasions I've shot my old G21 alongside my 1911 using the same box of ammo.
The felt recoil of the G21 is noticeably less. I'd expect that trend to continue if running Super through both.
I wouldnt batter a nice 1911 with Supers, I'd go with the cheaper, softer shooting, higher capacity Glock for this roll.
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Old August 16, 2014, 04:01 PM   #43
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I personally think the 10mm is a cruel and unusual thing to do to a 1911.
I certainly have no idea why. My Delta is the last gun I would give up. I have a Glock 29 also, but it would be readily given up before the Colt, which I have had since the 80s. Today, I would go with Kimber, since it offers unsurpassed chamber support. But the CS on my old Colt is not bad at all, and I've never had an issue.
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Old August 16, 2014, 04:12 PM   #44
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You could get the Coonan now and buy a 10mm later if you still want one. 10mm's are a dime a dozen, you can get them in every price range. The Coonan is by most accounts an excellent firearm, but it might not be around forever and it isn't really all that expensive for a custom 1911.
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Old August 18, 2014, 05:21 PM   #45
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Have you considered a 460 Rowlands conversion ? Costs less than a whole new handgun (< $300) and performance to spare......

http://shop.460rowland.com/index.php...&product_id=50
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Old August 22, 2014, 12:15 AM   #46
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Tanfoglio Stock II 10mm here. 14+1. Very high quality and looks pretty fancy.

My preferred general self defense round is the Underwood 155gr HP. If I were to venture into bear country, I'd have the 220 grain hard cast loaded up for skull penetration. Underwood loads are full SAMMI spec'ed, and not your general off the shelf dumbed down loads. Huge felt difference between, say, Armscor, and Underwood. Huge.

The Tanfo (imported by EAA) is DA/SA but can be carried cocked and locked like the 1911 if preferred. 1" slide width and about 40oz.
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Old August 24, 2014, 05:05 PM   #47
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I've got a Kimber Eclipse Custom II 10mm and have 500-600 rounds through it. I upgraded the springs and the firing pin stop and shoot stiff, real 10mm loads (but not max or above SAAMI type). It is a wonderful pistol and after buying this as my entry to the 1911 I have no desire to ever own a 45.

One advantage to the "real" 1911s is that it matters little if the original company is around forever. If you buy a Coonan, they are discontinued, and something breaks, what do you do? None of the pieces I have added to my Kimber came from Kimber, except the 1-piece MSH/magwell, which I easily could have sourced somewhere else.
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Old August 24, 2014, 05:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaniel

I've got a Kimber Eclipse Custom II 10mm and have 500-600 rounds through it. I upgraded the springs and the firing pin stop [...]
What weight recoil spring do you have in it? And what mainspring (hammer spring)? And what mags do you use?

My 10mm Eclipse seems to run best with the stock 18.5lb spring (and I've got an 18lb mainspring in it, which was needed to get the trigger-pull down where I wanted it). (I DO have a small-radius firing-pin-stop in it.) I shoot DoubleTap JHP's exclusively in it: alternating 150gr, 180gr, and 200gr in each mag ... close to full spec.

But the best springs for the gun might well depend on how the extractor is set up. Mine is fairly reliable except for feeding the last round in the mag ... I get a 60-degree nose-up jam about every 10 last-rounds or so. That's with 10mm Checkmate mags (which are I believe just like the mags that Kimber has recently switched to (used to be Metalform round-follower mags, I think).

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Old August 25, 2014, 10:24 AM   #49
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Tangfolio Witness 10mm as well as a Fusion Commander length 10mm. The later is my carry gun.
My .357 Magnum is a 4" GP100 and I'm happy with it.
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Old August 25, 2014, 09:32 PM   #50
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"What weight recoil spring do you have in it? And what mainspring (hammer spring)? And what mags do you use?"

IIRC it is a 22# recoil spring and 23# mainspring. I can tell you I value those forward serrations for racking it!

IMHO the mainspring and FPS are more important to controlling the slide than the recoil spring. I have no intention to run mine any heavier, though the brass still travels a significant distance.

I use the factor Kimber mags and Tripp mags. Failures to feed are very rare but honestly more common than with my Glocks. But I'm new to the 1911 so I'm waiting to see if it is my TLC or the gun. No difference between mags, maybe 1-2% FTF rate. Typically just need a tap on the back of the slide to finish closing it.
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