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Old August 4, 2014, 04:41 PM   #1
RsqVet
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10mm 1911 or Coonan

I have been thinking of adding a "more than 45 acp power" semi auto for some time. Mostly due to the fact that I would like an alternative to my revolvers when it comes to a higher power round when I feel the need.

I have tried to simplify and thin the heard as much as possible for economy of scale thus adding another caliber is not something I do trivially while I have plenty of 357 around hence the appeal.

I have found very little negative is ever said about the Coonan. I have sticker shock at their mag prices and worry about ending up witj an orphan gun.

I like that there are a few 10mm 1911's available and seemigly enough parts / support.

This is ment to be a gun / platform discussion, not a 357 vs. 10mm debate, I tend to NOT hot rod my reloads esp. in a semiauto so for me they are equivilent energy wise.
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Old August 4, 2014, 08:23 PM   #2
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I had a Coonan, during the time the phone wasn't being answered. They are large! It was a blast when it fired, but sometimes it didn't. All the usual suspects were changed, but didn't fix it. Next up was a G20. Pretty damned reliable, decent accuracy, but fugly! Glocks are like that though, so I could recommend that one. I'm giving the Colt 1911 a try next. Bon chance, I've got a new one on lay-a-way.
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Old August 4, 2014, 08:25 PM   #3
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RIA has a great 10mm offering
Check it out, you'll find it a good version at a reasonable price!!
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Old August 4, 2014, 08:32 PM   #4
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I would get the Coonan, it's a really cool gun plus you said you have plenty of .357 around. I'm going to assume you do NOT have 10mm and will say this, if you don't hotrod the 10mm, there's no point to it. You could load a 255gr hardcast in the .45 ACP to around 975-1000 fps and kill anything a 10mm would (and probably more).

Also since the Coonan has no barrel/cylinder gap like on a revolver, you can really pick up some speed. Someone ran some 125gr Buffalo Bores and was getting around 1800 fps in a Coonan, a good 100 fps above advertised velocity. If that's the case, even with the heavier 158-180gr+ class the .357 would give you more power.

Another option woud be to shoot .45 Super or maybe the 460 Rowland. You have to have a comp for the Rowland, and the Super can go either way. You could load a Super to not need one but still pack a bigger punch than the ACP (say 250gr at 1100 fps) or load it to mimic a 460, but you would need a comp at that point. Just throwing out options.
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Old August 4, 2014, 08:34 PM   #5
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I have not shot a Coonan. I do own a Dan Wesson PM7 (1911) in 10mm. I like it, but I like 1911s generally. And you are right, there are different options out there for the 1911 platform. If you go the 1911 route, you may want to consider a gun with a ramped barrel to give it better case support in case you want to shoot some of the "warmer" loads available; not +P but loaded toward the upper SAAMI pressure specs.

Added: Most of the commercial 10mm loads are equivalent to .40 S&W but there are some manufacturers who reach higher velocities -- Buffalo Bore and Underwood to name a couple.
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Old August 5, 2014, 04:05 AM   #6
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I will receive my Coonan in a week or so... If you considering a 10 mm pistol as an alternative, look at STI Perfect 10. I would not even consider the G20.
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Old August 5, 2014, 07:47 AM   #7
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I dont own a 10mm but I do own a Coonan. I cant speak to the 10mm but I am sure most are great guns. The Coonan is also a great gun. When you first get it, it is best to run it with hotter loads till the spring breaks in. I am now able to run any thing from Buffalo bore (yeah that review at 1800 FPS was me) to subsonic loads with no issues.

Its more accurate than I am. With Powders like H110 and 300MP it has a lot of flash so it impresses at the range. I dont think I would use it for a home defence gun just because of how much flash and how loud it is but it is a great gun for the range and may be ever for hunting.

Unlike the Desert eagle you can shoot cast lead out of it. I love 180 grain cast lead over Unique for a good mild load. For a Hot load I like Hornady 140 grain bullets over 300MP.

There customer service has always been good to me. I once got a phone call from the owner (Dan Coonan) just to ask how my pistol was working. I bought the pistol shortly after they opened back up so I was an early customer.

I do have a shoulder rig for it similar to a "Jackass" rig only on the right side it holds 4 mags instead of the usual 2.
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Old August 5, 2014, 01:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Someone ran some 125gr Buffalo Bores and was getting around 1800 fps in a Coonan,
I've seen some chrono results of 1500 from a 4" revolver, so unlikely that you're going to see much more than that from a 5" auto. The auto barrel includes the chamber, so a 5" auto is effectively the same as a 4" revolver, with a bit of pressure loss from the gap.
You can drive a 135gr bullet at well over 1400 from a 5" 10mm, so not much to choose.
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Old August 5, 2014, 08:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
I've seen some chrono results of 1500 from a 4" revolver, so unlikely that you're going to see much more than that from a 5" auto. The auto barrel includes the chamber, so a 5" auto is effectively the same as a 4" revolver, with a bit of pressure loss from the gap.
You can drive a 135gr bullet at well over 1400 from a 5" 10mm, so not much to choose.
Im sorry but your wrong. I have the posts with pictures on this forum. I get 1800 give of take FPS from my 6 inch Coonan.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495750
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Old August 5, 2014, 08:21 PM   #10
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The Coonan is a big pistol, and there do seem to be gems and lemons among the offering. If the size is not a turn off and you can get some support from a good gunsmith if necessary, I would go with the Coonan since you have the .357 Mag already.

I have a Dan Wesson Razorback in 10mm that I cherish, in fact I was part of the original group on 1911Forum that voted/spec'd what we wanted. I killed an elk at 80 yards with a 180 grain at 1450 fps with that 1911. I've built several other "more power" 1911s and still have a few including a .40 Super.

In general, when you pass the 10mm energy threshold, the 1911 platform is a bit out of its league. Sure, you can get all the super tough parts, but the FP stop, barrel links, etc. can only be made so strong within the material and design window. I keep meaning to get my 6" .40 Super barrel ported so I don't have to run 24 pound springs, but I invariably grab the .41 Mag or .414 SuperMag before the .40 Super so I still have not bothered. Most people only want to shoot 1 or 2 rounds out of it before they set it down. Given the velocity and energy, it is more violent than a Revolver IMHO. I did shoot a deer and a Pronghorn at 110 and 140 yards respectively with it though.
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Old August 6, 2014, 12:34 PM   #11
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Get the Coonan, trust me, you will love this gun.
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Old August 6, 2014, 01:00 PM   #12
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I have two different 10mm pistols and one Coonan Classic. (though it seems a misnomer, the "Classic" is the newly built and currently produced Coonan pistol)

Sticking to your stated intentions for this discussion (not being an argument between the two rounds and how they compare), I do wonder if it makes sense to at least address the differences when it comes to the handloader's point of view.

I'm a long time handloader of both rounds, and it makes for an interesting comparison if you are choosing between these two. Both are example of brass you simply don't often find scattered at a public range to be easily picked up and added to your cache of brass. 10mm rarely appears because it's not too popular and the folks who scatter it... chase it down. .357 rarely appears because most folks don't eject the stuff violently and lose it.

My Coonan runs extremely well, but with two caveats:
--it does not like "wimpy" loads and you need to feed it full-bore, strong ammo that runs to the MAX load end. No middle of the road "Unique-powered" kinds of loads will run this pistol. AA#9, 2400, Power Pro 300-MP and the obvious one (that I have not used...) H110/W296 are the powders that will run a Coonan properly. No handloads built with Titegroup, Bullseye, AA#2 or the like is going to run a Coonan, at least with regards to the full spring & set up for .357 Magnum.

--my Coonan scatters brass in every possible direction with no consistency other than the fact that it is inconsistent. The pistol shows obvious evidence that brass hits the slide as a normal part of the process and this has it flinging in a full 360-degree circle. As for picking up .357 brass, it's annoying, to be sure.

My 10mm pistols on the other hand will readily accept the full "range" of 10mm... most of the big name factory ammo is simply -NOT- built to the SAAMI potential of the round, by my handloads run from middle of the road (beyond the light factory) to full-bore, but still within SAAMI spec. It's also been my experience that every 10mm pistol I've worked with very much LOVES to launch brass in to the stratosphere. Some pistols are crazily consistent (my Glock 29!) and some are not, but all of them send the brass half the distance of the bullet, it seems.

Bottom line from a handloader's standpoint:

The Coonan that chucks .357 brass is easier to deal with when it comes to brass than the 10mm pistols are. Brass is more plentiful and (somewhat?) easier to find when you shoot the handgun.

I'd also submit that coming in to used .357 brass and purchasing bulk blasting component slugs is a lower-cost affair for .357 Magnum than for 10mm shooting, but YMMV.

If there is a "WILDCARD" bit to add that really hammers home my suggestion of a Coonan for you, it's that I have had big time success in developing a hot .38 Special load that runs the Coonan perfectly well with its included 10-lb accessory spring. 125 or 130gr bullet in .38 Special brass running a load that I cannot post because it just barely eclipses all published loads with that powder. It runs the slugs just over 1,050 FPS and it makes the Coonan sing, all without the boom, blast, and BRASS of .357 Magnum. FWIW, I built this load because my gun club does not want the steel plates to be hammered with magnum loads, and I wanted to stay within their wishes. Shooting this load with the lighter spring is -NOT- the full "Coonan Experience" but it's a royal help of fun!

My Coonan has digested over 2,500 rounds of ammo since new, but I bet that roughly 1600-1800 of that has been my hot .38 Special load with the accessory 10-lb spring.
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Old August 6, 2014, 04:03 PM   #13
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I like the grip fit and overall size of my DW 1911 Razorback chambered in 10mm ( same as most any 1911 goverment model )....the Coonan feels too large for me ! Otherwise having a .357 magnum semi-auto would be awesome...its all personal preference !
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Old August 6, 2014, 06:40 PM   #14
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Quote:

Im sorry but your wrong. I have the posts with pictures on this forum. I get 1800 give of take FPS from my 6 inch Coonan.
A 20% increase in velocity, from about an inch of additional barrel length, is remarkable. 5% is more common.
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Old August 6, 2014, 10:44 PM   #15
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The Coonan I got a while back (6 inch barrel) is indeed faster than my 357 magnum revolvers (the longest 357 magnum revolver barrel I own is 6 inch barrel)with hot loads to me it seem weird but it is true. The cylinder gap must lose a lot of energy. I notice that hotter loads gain more speed that lighter plinking load. I guess it make some sense that the hotter the round the more that escapes from the cylinder gap. With lighter loads such as Unique powder/cast the revolver with a 6 inch barrel and the Coonan with a 6 inch barrel have nearly identical speeds with only about 15 FPS advantage for the Coonan. Infact when the stars are aligned just right the revolver is fater with these loads.

The only complaints I have ever heard about the Coonans are the size (I dont see any way around it) and the fit and finish. My Coonan eats any 357 magnum load I have fed it so far out side of winchester 110 grain white box. It is a little more picky with 38 specials requiring +P loads.
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Old August 7, 2014, 12:27 AM   #16
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Love my DW Razorback. As far as what the 1911 design can take one thrill kill is the possibility that people will substitute MIM parts and they will fit, but may not be able to take the loads.

Designers could make specialty parts for 1911's chambered for high powered cartridges that could take the stresses better, special alloys and heat treatment and polishing stress risers out, parts not required for .45 ACP, and even piston type buffers within the spring guide. But other than the fully ramped barrels DW and Springfeild put in their high powered 1911 types I haven't heard of special parts just for magnum 1911's.

I saw a thread somewhere in which the OP asked why so many people like the 1911 design, and part of the answer might be that in .45 ACP 50K or even 100K firings are not unusual. I wonder what round counts can be expected with 10MM before cracks start to appear. Likewise what kind of longevity can be expected from the Coonan? The more I pay for a gun the longer it should last it seems to me.

In .45 ACP I would not be surprised to find that low cost guns like my wonderful RIA will last as long as guns costing ten times as much.
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Old August 7, 2014, 11:02 AM   #17
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Definitely 10mm 1911.
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Old August 7, 2014, 02:17 PM   #18
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Eaa witness stock 2.

A random pull from gun broker shows 10mm ones from 850-950.

Here's one
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=433305336


I know nothing about that seller or other sellrs on gb, but know the high end "stock" series is fantastic. Less $ gets a "match" sa gun, more $ gets the limited. Considering the power, these guns are soft, flat shooting and super robust.
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Old August 8, 2014, 04:40 PM   #19
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I find a 250-255g LSWC launched in excess of 950fps from a 5" '45' more than sufficient for anything other than brownie defense / moose hunting.
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Old August 8, 2014, 04:53 PM   #20
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I personally think the 10mm is a cruel and unusual thing to do to a 1911.

Get a Glock.

Or get the Coonan...it's always going to be something that will turn heads and start discussions at the range and if it turns out to be an orphan at least it will be an interesting orphan..
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Old August 8, 2014, 05:17 PM   #21
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> when you pass the 10mm energy threshold, the 1911
> platform is a bit out of its league

Didn't seem to be a problem with the LARs in .45WM and .50AE.
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Old August 8, 2014, 05:31 PM   #22
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The Coonan

I have had 2 Model A Coonans and a Model B. I still have one Model A left and it is for sale on Gunbroker right now (blatant sales pitch ) and I still have the Model B.
The fit and finish on all of these older Coonans is like custom and the performance has been flawless...You just have to remember the lithium grease! They have fed anything I could find to shoot...and what a hoot they are to shoot!!! Extremely accurate also.
I have heard horror stories about these originals but I believe most of the problem guns were made after Dan Coonan sold the company. Those guns will have Maplewood instead of St. Paul on the slide. BEWARE!
No experience with the brand new "Classics".
Coonans are definitely big boy guns...pretty large and heavy. Too heavy for me to carry anyway...
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Old August 8, 2014, 08:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
I personally think the 10mm is a cruel and unusual thing to do to a 1911.

No doubt.....however , I really enjoy everything about my DW 1911 chambered for 10mm and would get another one in a heartbeat ! I hope you enjoy your indestructible Glock as much ! I'm sure STI , Colt , Kimber , Wilson , Dan Wesson , Nighthawk , Fusion , Guncrafter Industries , and other 1911 producers or custom builders all agree with you !

Last edited by WIN1886; August 9, 2014 at 03:05 PM.
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Old August 9, 2014, 02:31 PM   #24
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get a custom Glock

I've had a few 5" 10mm 1911s in hand for specific-gun load development.

IMO the Winchester 175g Silvertip is PERFECT for unmodified 1911s. Modifications become NECESSARY when exceeding SAAMI specs for the cartridge.
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Old August 9, 2014, 05:15 PM   #25
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Seen a RIA 10mm the other day its kinda ugly but hey its cheap, good warranty, and good customer service.
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