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Old July 28, 2014, 11:30 AM   #1
Glenn E. Meyer
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The Beretta 92 is the cause of all our problems

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...market/375123/

Reading this article is mind boggling. It seems that the adaptation of the 92 led to US criminal problems and massacres. That is because of higher cap mags and a perfect storm of loose laws.

It will get worse because the army will choose a more powerful round and then horror will ensue on the civilian market.

The expert teaches writing at the UT - Austin.
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Old July 28, 2014, 11:48 AM   #2
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Darned evil guns

The War on Drugs is just a nasty distraction.
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Old July 28, 2014, 11:50 AM   #3
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I will admit that I did not click & read the linked article. I come here to enjoy myself, not for yellow journalism.

But I wanted to say that if hi-cap was the reason they wish to blame the Beretta 92, shouldn't they be blaming the Browning Hi-Power or perhaps the Smith & Wesson Model 59?
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Old July 28, 2014, 12:02 PM   #4
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Some people have to blame firearms because being responsible for ones own actions don't fit thier life style or view there of .
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Old July 28, 2014, 01:54 PM   #5
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Ha. It's good to know that my favorite sidearm is singularly responsible for a massive crime wave.

Do people not realize that many items in our daily lives were either invented or improved upon?

Guns, Jeeps, Goretex, Humvees, and thousands of other items were invented for use on the battlefield.

Velcro, food freeze drying processes, and thousands of other items were invented for use in space exploration.

Spoilers, fuel injection systems, and countless other automobile and motorcycle inventions and enhancements were developed for use in racing.

The list goes on.

People who fall for articles such as the one linked in the OP are simply gullible.
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Old July 28, 2014, 02:17 PM   #6
hoghunting
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Quote:
Studying the D.C. area in the 1980s, Daniel Webster noticed more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds.
Seems multiple hits were needed with the 9mm, only needed one shot with the .45

Quote:
The expert teaches writing at the UT - Austin
Austin is extremely liberal city, unfortunately UT-Austin follows that same format.
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Old July 29, 2014, 08:53 AM   #7
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"The article writer teaches undergraduate writing and photography classes... "

Ha-ha-ha!!! That's all I needed to know...

This seems to be a trend among the anti-2-amendment experts - their knowledge of firearms is inch deep.
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Old July 29, 2014, 09:28 AM   #8
4V50 Gary
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Any question why the youth of today are messed up after graduating from college? It's like U. C. Berkeley's School of Business with that midget idjit Reich and his leanings toward unrealistic solutions for our economy (Peter Schiff for the win).
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Old July 30, 2014, 10:14 AM   #9
spacecoast
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Quote:
The Beretta 92 is the cause of all our problems
...or maybe more accurately (according to the author) the military's and law enforcement's bloodthirsty greed for weapons that provide an advantage in battle.
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Old July 30, 2014, 10:56 AM   #10
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The fact someone can sew words together in a paid article has nothing to do with the competence or truthfulness of what is published.

Hog hunting, thanks for repeating your UT / Austin analysis.
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Old July 30, 2014, 11:32 AM   #11
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So....what if by some miracle, DOD decides to make the M-45 standard for everybody and we, as a military, in essence revert to 1911?

I re-read that article this morning just for the lolz.
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Old July 30, 2014, 11:32 AM   #12
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Studying the D.C. area in the 1980s, Daniel Webster noticed more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds.
...and he provides no direct evidence connecting that to the military adoption of the Beretta. What, were people stealing them from armories?

Mr. Webster (who has long been funded by the Joyce Foundation) says he noticed more patients with multiple wounds. Does he provide numbers? No. Could these victims have been shot at close range with a revolver? We don't know.

The fact that we have to call out this level of sloppiness and manipulation is truly unsettling.
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Old July 30, 2014, 11:51 AM   #13
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as time went on, more and more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds. In 1983, at the beginning of the study period, only about a quarter of gunshot patients had multiple injuries, but in the last two years of the study, that proportion had risen to 43 percent.

They have overlooked the obvious, the bad guys are becoming better shots. Or possibly the guys getting shot are simply tougher and it takes more bullets to stop them. Those links are about as valid as the rest of the article.
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Old July 30, 2014, 12:52 PM   #14
Brian Pfleuger
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Also note that the actual change is largely (if not entirely) acedemic.

From the "study":

Quote:
The mean number of entrance gunshot wounds per patient grew from 1.44 before the epidemic to 2.04 from 1988 through 1990.
In other words, it went from "almost 1-1/2" to "ever so slightly more than two" and that's only the Mean. Without the other statistics, Mean is more like Meaningless.
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Old July 30, 2014, 04:21 PM   #15
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The author also makes a cart/horse transposition... the premise seems to be that the military RFP requirements for a new service pistol in the JSSAP program drove the industry to develop deadlier handguns that then killed lots of kids (or something).

... which ignores the simple fact that all of the guns submitted for the JSSAP program were already available for sale in the consumer market before the program RFP was issued.

So those guns were already "on the streets," and the JSSAP competition had no impact on making "deadlier guns."
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Old July 30, 2014, 05:23 PM   #16
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Well, the party bus obviously stops at the end of paragraph 2:
Quote:
It’s not difficult to see the correlation—more bullets in the guns, more bullets in the victims.
Although everything in the first 2 paragraphs seems to indicate that the author is building a logical case based on EVIDENCE of his thesis, he suddenly pulls out the rug by admitting "well, these trends are really just running in parallel"...

So, either the writer is being disingenuous or he doesn't know the difference between the two words cause/correlation. Either of which would be another good reason to shake your head and wonder how some people get paid to teach.
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Old July 30, 2014, 06:15 PM   #17
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The increase in the number of actual holes shot in people is due to now prevalent knowledge (perhaps because of the internet) that only shooting one hole is a possible lawsuit in the making. Plus we know today that we have to put two in the boiler room and one in the control center to stop a threat for sure. Double taps weren't even a thing back in the day.
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Old July 30, 2014, 08:28 PM   #18
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*slow blink*

*shatters liquor bottle and holds up the shard*

Oh the anti-gunners went and made it personal now.
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Old July 30, 2014, 10:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Studying the D.C. area in the 1980s, Daniel Webster noticed more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds.
And just possibly, part of the reason for this is improvements in emergency medicine, including at the "street level." Faster, better treatment by paramedics means more people end up in the emergency room and fewer in the morgue...
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Old July 31, 2014, 09:13 AM   #20
Bartholomew Roberts
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The author lives in Austin, TX. It isn't like he could have thrown a rock and hit someone knowledgeable who could have explained why this was a ridiculous story.
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Old July 31, 2014, 09:55 AM   #21
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Read signature below ...
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:27 PM   #22
Machineguntony
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Austin, Texas is, without a doubt, the greatest city in the world. They have great and tolerant firearms laws. You can own any NFA item. And it is a friggin fantastic place to open a business and become successful beyond your dreams.

People are tolerant and not bigoted. It is a live and let live type of liberal city.

A lot of people are liberals, but a lot of people also are pro2A. That's why the 2A issue should never be a democratic vs republican issue, or a liberal vs conservative issue.
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Old August 1, 2014, 06:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
And just possibly, part of the reason for this is improvements in emergency medicine, including at the "street level." Faster, better treatment by paramedics means more people end up in the emergency room and fewer in the morgue...
More people than ever are dying in their 90s. Let's make the 90s illegal.
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Old August 1, 2014, 09:57 AM   #24
tirod
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Isn't Austin where the topless Moms Against Guns demonstration was held?

Tolerant indeed. I thank the large number of editors who have reported the story with some discretion. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

I found this when I first came across the article: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articl...apon-Criminals

The story starts with an unfounded claim, then resorts to saying it was made by another writer, who goes on to making statements without any logical substantiation from the data.

It's all backscratcher blogging disguised as "journalism" and typical of the genre.
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Old August 1, 2014, 12:56 PM   #25
Glenn E. Meyer
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Austin is a good city. Plenty of gun stores and gun friendly folk. The city government isn't friendly but there's no real handicap to leading the gun life - plus great restaurants. Plenty of matches in the local area. Indoor ranges, also.

But the Beretta 92 and the new army gun might cause the fall of civilization.
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