The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 28, 2014, 11:04 AM   #1
Kimio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 925
Advice for case rim shearing/stuck case?

Some may cringe at the idea of using steel cases ammunition in their guns. I've been using it for quite some time, namely Wolf performance ammunition for a while in my Stag AR15 with no issues. That said, I ran into a troubling problem the other day at the range. A friend of mine was firing some Tula 55gr .223 rounds out of my rifle when the rifle failed to eject the spent casing. Looking down into the chamber (after waiting a few minutes to ensure the round went off) I could see the case stuck in the chamber.

Disassembled the rifle, and then carefully took a cleaning rod and pushed the spent case out (not ideal, I know. I lacked any other tool to pull the case out at the time.). What I found was the extractor had completely sheared the case run off of the round when it went to extract the spent shell.

Should I be concerned? Is this a sign of wear on the extractor or just crappy ammo? I'm inclined to think the latter, but I'm not entirely convinced. Furthermore, I am loathe to stick anything down the barrel of my rifle from the muzzles end. Is there a tool that can pull cases like this out? I found some tools that look like they're designed around pulling brass out that have had the head completely pulled away from the case body.

Some advice would be appreciated.

Likely will just convert to shooting brass once the supply of my steel cased ammo dries up, while I stay away from the Tula made stuff.
Kimio is offline  
Old July 28, 2014, 11:10 AM   #2
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 2,009
Yes, get a Broken Shell Extractor for ARs, it's an expanding ratchet for the breech end.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old July 28, 2014, 12:52 PM   #3
jrinne0430
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 154
It's the ammo. Both my ARs will FTE after 100rds+/- with steel case ammo. Both are chromed line, I replaced the extractor including extra strength springs, and replaced the recoil buffers with the H2 (hoping to slow down the cycle would fix the issue) but it continues to happen. I have to clean the chamber and can continue firing for another 100rds before it occurs again.
jrinne0430 is offline  
Old July 29, 2014, 02:37 PM   #4
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,839
A ruptured case extractor only works if the head of the case is torn off. What you are describing is the extractor hook tearing through the case rim, with is a different situation.

Putting a rod down the muzzle will not destroy your rifle, or damage the barrel crown, provided you use something softer than steel, and not carrying embedded grit that could act like valve grinding compound.

Damage to the barrel comes from cleaning (particularly with a steel rod) rubbing against the rifling. For cleaning from the muzzle, get a "bore guide" that centers the rod in the barrel, preventing it from rubbing on the rifling.

Running a rod, even a steel one down the bore once, to pop out a stuck case is highly unlikely to cause any damage.

My best guess would be the ammo. Steel cased ammo usually has some kind of coating on the case, usually a lacquer, to prevent rust on the steel case.

It varies with the maker, and I understand improvements have been made in the coating, but what can happen is the lacquer can build up in the chamber, to the point where a fired case sitcks, and the extractor either pops off, or tears through the rim when the action opens.

We have discussed (even argued) about steel cased ammo on the forum a lot. Some have never had any issues with it in their guns, others have had problems, even breakage. Some brands of steel cased ammo are well thought of, others not so much.

My advice is clean your rifle thoroughly, particularly the chamber, and then stop using that particular ammo. I know its the cheapest stuff, but sometimes, you do get what you pay for, or rather, don't get what you aren't paying for.

Its a judgment call, if you only get the occasional stuck case, is it worth the "savings" over more expensive ammo? Your call.

just FYI, I'm a dedicated reloader, and I don't shoot steel cased ammo, because for me, the brass case (reloadable) is worth the extra cost.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 29, 2014, 10:50 PM   #5
Kimio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 925
Naw I shoot steel because I wasn't allowed to have a reloading bench. (Jr. enlisted living in the dorms and all). Finally am free of them now, and am now free to start putting together a reloading bench of my own.

Wolf has never given me any grief, this was the first time I used Tula ammunition though, and I really was not at all impressed. Especially after this little fiasco.

Is there any particular all one piece rods that ya'll would recommend? Got a coated one from Brownells a while ago, but it got damaged in the move sadly.
Kimio is offline  
Old July 30, 2014, 04:49 AM   #6
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,830
Given that you ripped the rim off a steel case,at my leisure I might want to order an extractor and pin,just to have one on hand.
HiBC is offline  
Old July 30, 2014, 02:23 PM   #7
Derbel McDillet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2013
Posts: 272
The usual culprit is a barrel with a .223 chamber instead of 5.56. Steel cases don't expand as quickly as brass, which allows particles to foul the chamber. A .223 chamber produces a higher gas pressure, which produces greater chamber fouling before the case seals the chamber, which can cause steel cases to stick.

Even if the barrel is marked "5.56" it may still have a .223 chamber (because of mis-marking by manufacturers). The only way to know is to use a chamber gauge.
Derbel McDillet is offline  
Old July 30, 2014, 05:39 PM   #8
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,056
223 and 5.56 "chambers" are for all intents identical, (and so are the pressures -- SAAMI v CIP measurement differences notwithstanding)
The throat leade ahead of the neck on the 5.56 may be a bit longer, but the case never sees that at all.

And...(intenet screaming aside) oil the cases before firing if you have "sticking" tendencies w/ commercial steel ammo.
mehavey is offline  
Old July 31, 2014, 08:16 AM   #9
Derbel McDillet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2013
Posts: 272
Quote:
223 and 5.56 "chambers" are for all intents identical, (and so are the pressures -- SAAMI v CIP measurement differences notwithstanding)
The throat leade ahead of the neck on the 5.56 may be a bit longer, but the case never sees that at all.
If one fires 5.56 in a barrel chambered for .223 the shorter throat produces higher pressure - which, with steel cased ammo, allows gas and particles to blow past the case neck and shoulder before the case expands to seal the chamber. This grit builds up with each shot to the point where it grabs hold of the polymer or lacquer coating on the case and sticks the case to the chamber.
Derbel McDillet is offline  
Old July 31, 2014, 01:24 PM   #10
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,056
That's a new one. Ordinarily I would envision the pressures associated w/ jam-fit/lands-engagement to expand the neck faster.

Hmmmm.....
mehavey is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08232 seconds with 7 queries