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Old July 31, 2014, 10:14 AM   #26
Wyoredman
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Thanks Aguila.

The way I read your quote of the Federal code:

Quote:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;
The "other than" seems to mean to me that it is perfectly legal to send guns from private person to private person as long as the shipper provides "written notice" to the carrier that a gun is in the package!

Likewise, the "other than" also leads me to believe that no notice is required if the firearm is being sent to an FFL!

I don't see how this can be interpreted any other way, if the above Federal code is quoted correctly.
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:43 AM   #27
zxcvbob
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You're reading it wrong. You only have to notify the carrier if you shipping to an out-of-state nonlicensee. And if you do ship it, you run afoul of other sections of the law.

(In-state nonlicensee is where it gets interesting)

Whether or not it's a good idea to notify the carrier is a whole 'nother matter.
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:50 AM   #28
Wyoredman
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Quote:
You only have to notify the carrier if you shipping to an out-of-state nonlicensee.
Isn't that what I said here:

Quote:
The "other than" seems to mean to me that it is perfectly legal to send guns from private person to private person as long as the shipper provides "written notice" to the carrier that a gun is in the package!
Quote:
And if you do ship it, you run afoul of other sections of the law.
Please elaborate!
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:15 AM   #29
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyoredman
The "other than" seems to mean to me that it is perfectly legal to send guns from private person to private person as long as the shipper provides "written notice" to the carrier that a gun is in the package!
That's correct. I posted the law for the benefit of those who might think it's a good idea to NOT tell UPS or FedEx what's in the box, or label it "machine parts," in order to avoid having to use 2nd Day Air. (Which at least one person has already suggested in this thread.)

If returning a firearm to a manufacturer or sending it to a gunsmith who holds an FFL, it appears the notice to the shipper is not required. It would be prudent before shipping to request a copy of the recipient's FFL just to CYA, although I would expect any manufacturer's repair depot or any gunsmith worth sending your blaster to, to hold a current license.

And, since this is federal law, it applies (as the law itself says) to interstate shipments. Sending a firearm to a manufacturer or FFL within your own state is not covered by this law, but may be addressed in your state's laws.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; July 31, 2014 at 11:21 AM.
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Old August 1, 2014, 09:27 AM   #30
Darren007
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Quote:
UPS and FedEx drivers often completely ignore the signature requirements.
No they don't. While I can't speak for FedEx, it isn't possible for a UPS employee to "ignore" a required signature. The DIAD alerts the driver attempting to deliver the package that a signature is required. He can't complete the delivery in the DIAD without obtaining a signature. If he leaves the package at its destination (without obtaining a signature), the DIAD will show the package as still being on the truck, undelivered. When he returns to the HUB, they're going to be asking where it is the next morning. Any and all packages being delivered to a business require a signature. The only packages that can be delivered without a signature are deliveries to residential addresses (referred to as a "driver release"), unless a signature is showing as being required (things such as medications and alcohol).

Quote:
When I got there I found a large box on the front landing, in plain view of the street and all of the businesses surrounding it, and literally wrapped in "ADULT SIGNATURE REQURIED" labels.

There simply was no missing the labels.
I will grant you that leaving a package, any package, in plain view whether business or residential is wrong. We're trained to leave the package in discreet location, out of sight from the passing public. Of course with business deliveries, they're signed for so it doesn't really apply to them.

Those stickers are meaningless. We pay no attention to them. Two reasons: 1.) If a signature is in fact required, it will show in the DIAD. If it doesn't show that a signature is required, we are not obligated to obtain one regardless of the sticker(s). Again, this only applies to residential deliveries as any delivery to a business requires a signature by default. 2.) People, especially businesses, often reuse boxes, so whatever stickers were slapped on them may not apply to the current contents.

Its like when people slap "Rush Delivery" stickers on the box. If you paid for 3 day ground, you're going to get it in 3 days. If you paid for 2nd day air, you're going to get it in two days, etc, etc. There is no such thing as "rush delivery" nor is it going to be delivered any quicker than what you paid for.

Last edited by Darren007; August 1, 2014 at 10:04 AM.
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Old August 1, 2014, 09:38 AM   #31
Kimio
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What's stopping them from just forging the signature and calling it a day?
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Old August 1, 2014, 09:57 AM   #32
Darren007
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Quote:
What's stopping them from just forging the signature and calling it a day?
What would be the point? If they deliver to a business, obtaining a signature is as easy as finding a the nearest employee. If its a residential address, they run the risk of the person calling UPS and claiming they never received it. The DIAD also contains a GPS unit. The system can show the drivers exact location at the time the package was scanned, signed for and delivered. If the receiver claims they never signed for anything, they can check the signature against previous signatures.
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Old August 1, 2014, 02:54 PM   #33
gyvel
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About ten years ago when I was handling the estate of a close friend of mine, a shipment of several Remington-Keene USID rifles were sent via UPS to the purchaser (in California, no less).

A few days after sending them off we got a check from UPS for the insured amount and were curtly told that the rifles had been stolen and the person responsible was sacked and was being prosecuted. The first notification came with the check without even a claim being filed. Go figure.
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Old August 1, 2014, 03:13 PM   #34
southjk
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Quote:
Those stickers are meaningless. We pay no attention to them.

Along with those FRAGILE stickers.
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