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Old July 27, 2014, 01:17 PM   #1
thallub
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UPS Driver Arrested For Stealing Guns

This UPS driver stands accused of stealing dozens of guns and selling them on the black market.

Quote:
RIVERSIDE, Calif. —

A Southern California UPS delivery driver was arrested Friday for stealing dozens of shipped guns that were sold on the black market, federal prosecutors said.

Curtis Hays, 36, of Rancho Cucamonga, was taken into custody on a federal indictment filed Wednesday in federal court in Riverside.

A call to his attorney, Carlos Juarez, was not immediately returned.

In 2012, the delivery driver allegedly stole packages containing 72 weapons at the UPS shipping hub in Ontario, east of Los Angeles, according to the indictment.


http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...riverguns.html
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Old July 27, 2014, 02:18 PM   #2
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Drivers and sorters get familiar with packages and destinations.

When I volunteered for the CMP, it is my recollection they were shipping next day service, and they had found, to ship no later than Thursday. Rifles stuck over the weekend in a Fed Ex warehouse had a habit of disappearing.

For a time, El Paso Saddlery was unable to get me a holster, must have shipped three, because El Paso UPS was "losing" a lot of packages from the Company.

The Post Office has been relatively good over the years, I think because job turnover was low and the employees wanted to keep their jobs and get a pension.
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Old July 28, 2014, 09:59 AM   #3
Mike Irwin
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What?

This isn't possible!

UPS assured us of that when they started making us pay for overnight air shipment of firearms because they couldn't control their employee theft problems...
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Old July 28, 2014, 12:24 PM   #4
spacemanspiff
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For a few years one of my brothers worked as a driver for FedEx Ground. According to him, most of the drivers just took whatever they wanted. Once they entered a package in as 'delivered', the company would treat any complaints of undelivered packages as 'not their problem'.
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Old July 28, 2014, 01:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
For a few years one of my brothers worked as a driver for FedEx Ground. According to him, most of the drivers just took whatever they wanted. Once they entered a package in as 'delivered', the company would treat any complaints of undelivered packages as 'not their problem'.
This stuff really ****** me off
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Old July 28, 2014, 01:33 PM   #6
Unlicensed Dremel
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Get a rope....

Quote:
This isn't possible!

UPS assured us of that when they started making us pay for overnight air shipment of firearms because they couldn't control their employee theft problems...
Exactly. They've been raking us over the coals with overnight only for years, and what good did it do?

Reason #467434212 to use Fed Ex for guns (and everything else).
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Old July 28, 2014, 03:09 PM   #7
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Funny, they just delivered my shotgun back to me from Cole's in Maine. Obvious long narrow box. Made the trip twice (unfortunately), but it was tracked all the way and arrived as promised in perfect condition.
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Old July 28, 2014, 03:22 PM   #8
Mike Irwin
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Nope, impossible.

You received the box, but obviously it was full of illusional magic.
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Old July 29, 2014, 04:58 AM   #9
mag1911
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Years ago I sent two pistols to a gunsmith in the upper Midwest. Since one had belonged to my Dad I was keeping a very close eye on it via the tracking number. It appeared it was headed to a different town/address than where I sent it.

I called the gunsmith and asked him about it. He said he usually received X firearms per week but hadn't been getting any lately. He knew and called the Sheriff in the county with the new delivery address. The Sheriff checked the address, an empty building, and intercepted my package at the UPS office. Ended well for me but probably not for a lot of others.
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Old July 29, 2014, 06:32 AM   #10
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I thought firearms required an adult signature from the person it was delivered to? its not like they pretend to left it at the door, they have to forge a signature of whomever was suppose to sign.
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Old July 29, 2014, 06:48 AM   #11
Mike Irwin
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UPS and FedEx drivers often completely ignore the signature requirements.

Back in the mid 1990s UPS was on strike.

I was working at a small gun shop close to my house that was closed Mondays.

Monday evening I got the weirdest feeling that I should head down to the gun shop, that somethign wasn't right.

When I got there I found a large box on the front landing, in plain view of the street and all of the businesses surrounding it, and literally wrapped in "ADULT SIGNATURE REQURIED" labels.

There simply was no missing the labels.

Of course, there were 8 or 9 handguns in the box.

I got on the phone and started screaming my way up FedEx's management chain, for what good it actually did.

They were so busy picking up UPS' strike business that they simply did not give a ****.
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Old July 29, 2014, 08:19 AM   #12
Kimio
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This makes me hesitant about shipping any of my guns to a smith now outside of an FFL transfer...but then again, all they do is mail it via Fed Ex or UPS as well don't they?
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Old July 29, 2014, 01:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Nope, impossible.

You received the box, but obviously it was full of illusional magic.
Well, that illusional magic broke most of the clays this morning, just like it was supposed to.... . And each time, they wanted the signature, like was required
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Old July 29, 2014, 02:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
I thought firearms required an adult signature from the person it was delivered to?
Well, that's the way it's supposed to happen.

A customer of mine returned a gun to S&W for repair. They couldn't fix it, so they decided to replace it. New gun, new serial number. That means it has to be received by an FFL and the FFL has to transfer it to the owner.

Something got mixed up, and they sent it to his house. That's problem #1.

He wasn't home, and the driver left the gun on his doorstep. That's problem #2.

Someone took the package off his doorstep. That's problem #3.

Since he wasn't expecting it, he didn't know. He called us after it had been a while, and we hadn't seen it. We started to worry that we'd lost it. Then he called S&W, and they realized the problem.

To this day, nobody knows where that pistol is.
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Old July 29, 2014, 04:45 PM   #15
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Nothing New, You got to use Dummy-Labels, The Memphis Hub used to be BAD!!,
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Old July 29, 2014, 05:39 PM   #16
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I've only experienced one problem in 26 years of using UPS, FED-EX and USPS for shipping and receiving firearms, which is weekly being a firearms dealer, and that was when the driver delivered our firearm shipment to the gunshop about three miles away.
Problem was quickly solved and corrected.
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Old July 29, 2014, 10:34 PM   #17
Rob228
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At a previous command of mine FEDEX dropped off a crate of new H&K IAR's outside the supply office after hours, that caused a bit of drama the next morning.
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Old July 29, 2014, 10:38 PM   #18
4V50 Gary
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Club Fed for him. UPS used to be good. No more.
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Old July 30, 2014, 04:20 AM   #19
mag1911
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Twice I've had firearms left on the porch by UPS without getting signatures. One an Ithaca 4E trap gun that was leaning up against the screen door when I got home. The other was a LWC coming back from Wilson Combat. Luckily I was home for that one. The driver rang the door bell and ran back to his truck. He was pulling away as I opened the front door.

It's also an adventure shipping them out. When I took the LWC to UPS I declared a firearm and had it addressed:

Wilson's
2234 CR 719
Berryville, AR 72616

The counterman said that wasn't a real address and refused the package. I told him Wilson's probably got hundreds of UPS deliveries so it had to be good. He left the counter for a while, checking it out I guess, then accepted the package.

Another time the same counterman refused a package I was sending to Teddy Jacobson in Texas. This time he said UPS didn't ship firearms from individual to individual. I had to get the mgr involved. I had to prove Teddy was a real gunsmith by showing them his business letter head before they'd accept the package.
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Old July 30, 2014, 09:25 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimio
This makes me hesitant about shipping any of my guns to a smith now outside of an FFL transfer...but then again, all they do is mail it via Fed Ex or UPS as well don't they?
Sending by UPS or FedEx is not "mailing," it's shipping by common carrier. No, FFLs don't usually ship by UPS or FedEx, because under federal law FFLs can mail handguns using the USPS and it's generally much cheaper to mail a handgun than it is to ship it by UPS or FedEx.
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Old July 30, 2014, 09:30 AM   #21
Mike Irwin
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"Well, that illusional magic broke most of the clays this morning, just like it was supposed to.... . And each time, they wanted the signature, like was required"

Lucky you.

Last time I went out the illusional magic made it appear that the clays I was powdering were actually flying on unscathed.

Musta ticked off a wizard or something...


It's really coming down to the point where if I can't get a gun fixed locally I'm probably not going to have it fixed. Shipping them is an expensive crapshoot.
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Old July 30, 2014, 09:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
When I took the LWC to UPS I declared a firearm
Why bother? They can tell from the address for most places what type of store it is. I box it up, fill out the address, leaving any mention of gun off the address, pay for insurance and away it goes successfully
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Old July 30, 2014, 06:31 PM   #23
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A400 Fan
Quote:
When I took the LWC to UPS I declared a firearm
Why bother? They can tell from the address for most places what type of store it is. I box it up, fill out the address, leaving any mention of gun off the address, pay for insurance and away it goes successfully
The federal law pertaining to shipping firearms by common carrier specifically requires that the sender inform the carrier that the contents are (is?) a firearm. The carrier is not allowed to put anything on the outside of the package identifying it as a firearm.

Last edited by Tom Servo; July 30, 2014 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Be nice to the little cherubs...
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Old July 31, 2014, 07:14 AM   #24
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Nor do you put that on the BOL either. Again, when I have shipped guns via Fedex, they look up the address to ascertain that it is indeed a business and not residential address and the name of the company is also present and they have the business info. They already know. And my Fedex drop off sees enough guns they don't pay it any mind.
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Old July 31, 2014, 08:58 AM   #25
Aguila Blanca
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The federal law: U.S. Code (USC) Title 18 Section 922(e):

Quote:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
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