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Old July 24, 2014, 05:05 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Concealed Handgun Licensee Stops Philadelphia Hospital Shooting

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/s...jures-24701204

A psychiatric patient shot and killed his case worker and another unidentified person as well as shooting his doctor, and caused a lockdown in Philadelphia hospital.

The incident will not qualify as a mass shooting by FBI standards though because he only grazed the doctor, who was carrying a concealed handgun (apparently in violation of hospital policy) and shot the patient, stopping any further carnage.
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Old July 24, 2014, 05:33 PM   #2
Glockstar .40
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It's truly a shame that the media glorifies these mass shooters but the heroic go unnoticed.

I bet everyone is glad he didnt comply with the hospital policy. Unfortunately he will probably lose his job when he should be getting a raise.
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Old July 24, 2014, 05:45 PM   #3
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I'm sad for the victim's family but glad, in deference to policy, there was a good guy with a gun to stop the bad guy with a gun.
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Old July 24, 2014, 10:06 PM   #4
Andy Blozinski
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Glockstar..did you read the article? I fail to see any glorification of a mass shooting and here is a copy and paste from the article:
"They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely,"
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Old July 24, 2014, 10:15 PM   #5
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This shooter isn't being glorified because he failed as a mass murderer. Real mass murderers get made into rock-stars (Lanza, Cho, Harris & Kebold, etc), to inspire other crazies to go on a rampage too -- because it's good news copy.
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Old July 25, 2014, 01:04 AM   #6
DannyB1954
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DARBY, Pa. Doctor shoots patient.

Just seen it on MSN.com A mental patient kills one of the workers and injures the Doctor. Doctor shoots assailant. The bad guy is in critical condition.

Good for you Doc. You probably saved more lives that day with a gun, then you could of with all the best medicine the world has to offer.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/do...efore-gunfight


Problem is hospital says Doctor not authorized to carry. I hope he comes out of this with a "clean bill of health". The Police seem to be on his side.
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Old July 25, 2014, 04:09 AM   #7
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The Dr. is alive! Guess he will have to fight any actions by the Hospital.
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Old July 25, 2014, 06:12 AM   #8
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A few years ago I was studying the Columbine shooting and came across a site that was all about how "cute" and "cool" the shooters were. The media usually wants to focus on how "mistreated" and "bullied" the shooters were.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:13 AM   #9
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I think the media has robbed some of you guys of what you want for grumbling purposes.
I'm watching CNN right now and they specifically referred to the doctor who took down the shooter as a "Hero". In the text article that was cited in the original post, he was credited with likely preventing a more widespread mass murder.
This is the kind of reporting you always complain we don't get. When they actually do provide it to you...you complain anyways.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:25 AM   #10
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Actually, I don't think I could have asked for better reporting on this:

Quote:
"Without that firearm, this guy (the patient) could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition," the chief said.
The old media adage says, "if it bleeds, it leads." Cases in which bloodshed is averted don't generally make the front page. We hear about the five-car pileup on the interstate, but we don't hear about the conscientious drivers who avoid such accidents all day long.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:33 AM   #11
jtmckinney
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In the hospital "Code Of Conduct" link provided by Bartholomew Roberts is this. Section 9 "Health and Safety:.
Quote:
Employees are prohibited from bringing firearms or explosives of any kind into the workplace.
Only place firearms are mentioned. What we know so far this seems to be a case of "good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun". So this will probably cost him his job and probably make it harder if not impossible to continue in his line of work.

Policy is not law so with that said are there any state or city laws (at a hospital or medical facility) he broke by having a firearm on him at his place of work? If having a firearm was against the law how can they not charge him and prosecute him for his offence. The other outcome would be he would probably be dead and others maybe killed. We don't know if the patient would have gone on to kill others, that is suggested in the article but without any evidence to back it up.

Because of the outcome and if Philadelphia doesn't charge and prosecute the Dr. with a firearms possession crime (if he committed one) could this be used as a defense by others that the law is not carried out without discrimination?

Be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days.
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Old July 25, 2014, 08:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
I think the media has robbed some of you guys of what you want for grumbling purposes.
I'm watching CNN right now and they specifically referred to the doctor who took down the shooter as a "Hero". In the text article that was cited in the original post, he was credited with likely preventing a more widespread mass murder.
This is the kind of reporting you always complain we don't get. When they actually do provide it to you...you complain anyways.
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This is good reporting; I'm not complaining. I was commenting on the type of reporting we get when there's NOT a "good guy with a gun" on the scene to end it quickly.
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Old July 25, 2014, 09:05 AM   #13
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I hope we can follow this case as it develops.

Maybe some of you PA guys can update the rest of us from time to time?
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Old July 25, 2014, 10:38 AM   #14
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I think this is a win, so to speak, for responses to rampages.

Unlike other unsuccessful ones - we have a clear case of one being stopped.

It also indicates how gun bans are useless and only act against the defender.

The gun world should do a full court press to defend this individual who saved the day.

Yes, he violated some rule and was that unethical, etc. One must speak to the greater principle of saving lives. I could come up with the psychiatrists who were butchered by another client - but I would have to search a bit and am busy now.
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Old July 25, 2014, 11:37 AM   #15
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Nothing More precious than a Human Life- which he probebly just save some.
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Old July 25, 2014, 02:19 PM   #16
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In all the reports, I never saw that this Dr was licensed. Just that he had a gun.
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Old July 25, 2014, 03:09 PM   #17
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Still no news reports of any charges or actions against the doctor. The [patient], however, is being charged with murder.

Last edited by Vanya; July 25, 2014 at 11:19 PM. Reason: inappropriate language.
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Old July 25, 2014, 06:00 PM   #18
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The local news stated that the Dr. had a concealed carry permit, and the hospital was looking forward for his return to work. Comments by witnesses and hospital employees are labeling him a hero. Statements by the Phila police indicate he stopped a mass shooting, as the shooter had ammo for a reload. Nice job, doc.
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Old July 25, 2014, 06:52 PM   #19
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My guess the DR will be fired, or let go, however you wish to look at it.

Policy is policy and a violation to this degree is subject to dismissal, regardless of the outcome of the situation.

I have a family member that is, shall we say, upper management in a local Hospital. This DR will not be fired, he will be asked to resign on his own and given a good-great recommendation.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:03 PM   #20
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Mental illness + a gun met with someone who deals with mentally challenged people who chose to carry; interesting. I don't know enough about this yet to evaluate the shooting. But i suspect that I'll find more answers her than I do in the MSM.
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Old July 26, 2014, 10:26 AM   #21
Andy Blozinski
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...e__policy.html

The county DA's name is Whelan:
"As for Silverman, Whelan said that he believed it was the doctor's practice to carry a gun for self-protection and that he was in compliance with all state laws."

The hospital:
"A Mercy Fitzgerald Health Systems spokesman said Thursday it was against hospital policy for anyone other than "on-duty law enforcement" to carry weapons but a subsequent statement from a Mercy spokeswoman yesterday said, "We look forward to Dr. Silverman's return to serving patients at our hospital."

As has been stated by the forum staff, this is a pretty damned good example supporting much of what we argue about.
Criminal loon is banned from having firearms. He gets them and uses them anyways. He doesn't care about any laws.
A facility is a gun free zone for our "Safety". Criminal loon brings them in anyways. He doesn't care about any laws.
Gun free zones create killing fields. Gunman starts a potential killing spree in a wonderfully safe gun free zone.
Concealed Carry people have the potential to stop said killing spree. Doctor did and before it got far.
Lower capacity weapons and/or weapons without changeable magazines will make us safer. It was a revolver.
Doctor is publicly hailed as a hero in wide media coverage.

Don't kick the gift horse when you can ride it. This rivals the Washington DC navy yard shooting for real world situation data to support what we feel.
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Old July 26, 2014, 10:33 AM   #22
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Good Morning America reported today that the shooter had 39 other bullets with him! (gasp!)

The Doc was apparently breaking hospital policy (and reportedly had been doing so for 5 years). Co-workers are calling him a hero, and looking forward to his return to work...

without any background on the Doc, I cannot say he is a good posterboy for our cause, but on the surface he seems a lot better than Zimmerman.

There has been no mention of a racial component, so this is not going to go down like the Zimmerman case, thankfully. Also no 17yr old 200+lb "child" involved, and many other differences.

The computer re-enactment on TV showed 3 people in a small office. Bad guy draws gun (the graphic had an SA revolver - but that is essentially meaningless at this point), shoots & kills woman, turn on Doc, who gets his gun and shoots it out with the bad guy.

On the surface, this looks like a good shoot, and hopefully future events will bear this out.

Also, once again, I am peeved with the media's improper use (position in context) of the word "allegedly". A woman was killed, there is nothing alleged about that.
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Old July 26, 2014, 10:39 AM   #23
Andy Blozinski
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It's not the media that is to blame for the "alleged" stuff. Cheesey lawyers are to blame. I'm sure crap media uses it to be evasive at times, but there is a sound legal reason it gets used the majority of the time.
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Old July 26, 2014, 02:10 PM   #24
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I know the legal principle, innocent until proven guilty. SO, I'm fine with the media saying "alleged" shooter, etc.,

What gripes me is when they use alleged when describing, or referring to the shooting (or whatever incident). I don't think it is grammatically correct.

For instance, one can allege that a fire is arson, but one cannot allege there was a fire, either there was (fact) or there wasn't (also fact).

Also I am bothered by the use of "alleged" when talking about people caught (and sometimes gunned down) IN THE ACT! Seems pretty concrete to me, they did it, we have witnesses, they get shot while doing it. I don't see anything to allege there.

Allege their guilt, or innocence until after the trial, fine. But don't allege that something happened. ITs not only bad grammer, its not the truth.

Of course, that's just me. I'm a dinosaur that still believes words have actual meanings....
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Old July 27, 2014, 09:34 PM   #25
Glockstar .40
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Quote:
Glockstar..did you read the article? I fail to see any glorification of a mass shooting and here is a copy and paste from the article:
"They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely,"
Andy I did not read the article. Thanks for clarifying. I was mainly speaking of every other time there is a shooting

Nice too see the hero getting some praise finally.

Typically situations play out like so,

Boss to media- "They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely."

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."
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