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Old July 20, 2014, 12:54 PM   #1
Glenn E. Meyer
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CA single shot - to semi law?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5601461.html

Can someone explain (Frank?) what is up with this story?

It seems to say that noncompliant in CA guns were brought in as single shot converts and then coverted back to normal configuration.

That seems a lot of trouble to go through. There are compliant guns to be bought. The issue of a chamber indicator seems trivial for the trouble.

This one confused me.
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Old July 20, 2014, 02:00 PM   #2
Tom Servo
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I was unaware of this as well. Apparently, normal pistols can be crippled to single-shot by a couple of modifications, which can later be reversed:

Quote:
Installation of a substitute barrel that makes the gun dimensionally compliant (OAL must be at least 10.5" and barrel minimum of 6"). 0 round sled or blocked magazine. Mag lock device. [post 24]
AB1964 (details here) is attempt to close this loophole.
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Old July 20, 2014, 02:16 PM   #3
Glenn E. Meyer
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CA is safer because of this law, I assume.

Time series have shown a discontinuity in criminal gun usage, indicating that the compliance process has saved lives after the laws were introduced.

I'm quite sure this happened.
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:40 PM   #4
SHE3PDOG
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This is just the last nail in the coffin. CA already has made it so that no new guns can be added to their safe handgun roster via microstamping law. Now they are just ensuring that people can't get off roster guns through the single shot exemption rule like many people were. The roster will slowly dwindle and Californians will have no access to new handguns and extremely limited access to older models.

As fare as it being a lot of trouble to go through, it is actually an easy process. Buy the off roster gun (usually an off roster model, not just one that doesn't have a loaded chamber indicator), it is converted before being handed over to you, undo the damage yourself or have the shop do it for you, and walk away with a normal off roster handgun albeit with a 10rd mag.
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Old July 20, 2014, 04:10 PM   #5
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It's entirely legal to own and use an off-Roster pistol, and for one CA resident to sell such to another, but it's illegal for an FFL to directly sell one to a non-exempt person (principally LEO).

A lot of guns are not on the CA Roster of 'not-unsafe' handguns. For example, made-in-USA Glocks have been ruled by CA-DOJ to be different from the ones submitted for testing years ago, and thus need the new 'features' - magazine disconnect and loaded chamber indicator and now microstamping - and cannot get on the Roster.

There is a quirk in the Penal Code on the Roster that exempts handguns with certain characteristics from needing to be on the Roster:
Quote:
(b) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5
(commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to
a single-shot pistol
with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and
that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
So, some creative folks were taking an off-Roster pistol, adding a long barrel, and a 'sled' of a fixed magazine, that allowed loading only a round into the chamber.

Then, having transferred the gun in 'long barrel, single-shot' condition, the buyer would return the gun for gunsmithing, during which the factory barrel would be re-installed, and the fixed mag converted back to removable. The parts ordinarily are returned to the FFL to be re-used for the next SSE (Single Shot Exemption) conversion.

There has been some concern that the back-conversion might be considered 'manufacturing an unsafe handgun', forbidden by law, but the line between gunsmithing an existing gun and manufacturing has been blurry.

The new law, actually a decent model for a single-purpose bill, adds this sentence to PC:
Quote:
However, Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall apply to a semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode.
Purpose-designed single-shot pistols remain exempt.
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Last edited by Librarian; July 20, 2014 at 04:17 PM.
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Old July 20, 2014, 09:08 PM   #6
Paul B.
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IIRC, back in the late 60's or into the 70's when handgun hunting was just starting to get popular (Think that was the time frame but it could have been later) that some outfit came up with a kit to convert a 1911 into a sort of bolt action single shot handgun that would take rounds as hot as the .308 Win. You removed the slide and magazine, inserted a block into the magazine well, slid the rest of the kit onto the frame and inserted the slide lock pin and there it was. Your nre single shot hunting pistol. I can't remember what gun rags showed that set up and I'm too damn lazy to go through gun rags I have stored up but never cataloged. Roughly somewhere between one and two thousand magazines from 1936 on to the present date. IIRC, that block that went into the mag well also served as a recoil lug.
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:03 PM   #7
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
...Can someone explain (Frank?) what is up with this story?

It seems to say that noncompliant in CA guns were brought in as single shot converts and then coverted back to normal configuration.

That seems a lot of trouble to go through. There are compliant guns to be bought....
I've been out all day, but Librarian covered it well in post 5.

And basically, it was all a "work-around" so one could buy an off-roster semi-auto. Yes, there are on-roster guns which would probably do what one wants, but sometimes a person just wants "that one" and will try to find a way to buy it, even if there's something else easily available that could do the job as well.

So yes, it was a lot of trouble, but there were plenty of folks who were willing to go through it to be able to have just what they wanted.

And of course the whole roster thing is silly and a terrible nuisance (although it's saved me a lot of money).
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Old July 21, 2014, 01:41 PM   #8
TJH3781
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There were two (2) actual conversion kits that I recall.

Pachmayr made the Dominator that fit on a 1911 frame & was attached by the slide stop & a bolt that threaded trough the magazine opening. It operated with a bolt that also had another safety. I have seen them in 308 caliber.

Springfield also sold a kit for the 1911 that had a tip up barrel controlled by a modified magazine. It was named the Springfield Arms Single Shot It & was available in several calibers up to 358 Winchester.

I have no idea as to either's legality in CA at this time.
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Old July 21, 2014, 06:58 PM   #9
barnbwt
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I wonder if there's an argument to be made that import restrictions inexorably lead to domestic restrictions? The latter of which can only be effectively enforced by registering the items before the door is actually shut? Which can then be easily confiscated at the behest of the general public once legal owners dwindle to a sufficiently defenseless portion of the electorate?

This stuff really does insist upon itself. Hopefully CA won't have the wait as long as the rest of the country has (for machine guns) to realize they just banned semi-automatic pistols. "Dry up the supply" and all that is now in effect, and there will be nothing but further measures to ensure no new semi auto handguns can be brought in or made. Prices skyrocket, and it becomes increasingly easy to agitate for the same restrictions on rifles and shotguns.

I'd love to see this try to stand up in court, but alas, it will take a long time for things to truly get as far as what would be considered by an biased judge to be a de facto ban, and by then, the people will be fully enured to the 'new normal'

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Old July 21, 2014, 07:09 PM   #10
Librarian
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Quote:
they just banned semi-automatic pistols.
Excuse me? What part of the bill suggests that?

'just' is the part I question. The Roster is well known to be a slow-ban of handguns.

See the Calguns Foundation Wiki article: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/The_Safe_Handgun_List
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Old July 22, 2014, 10:25 AM   #11
Colt46
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As a Californian we cannot buy just any handgun that tickles our fancy

They must be made available for purchase after undergoing a drop test. Then you have to pay an annual fee to keep the gun on the approved list. You would think that offering a smith and wesson k-frame for testing would be enough. It's not. Every gun that has a different barrel length or finish must be submitted for testing. Many, many firearms are not submitted for testing because of the onerous cost to manufacturers.

The final insult is classic: Law enforcement agencies are not required to purchase from the approved roster and single action revolvers are specifically exempt. Especially that Pesky old Colt SAA that is likely the only handgun known to regularly fail being dropped.
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