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Old July 23, 2014, 08:19 AM   #26
johnelmore
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The ban doesnt concern me because all mine are from Bulgaria. There will be no panic until they start banning the Bulgarian made which we all know to be the top quality.
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Old July 23, 2014, 08:37 AM   #27
troopcom
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I read on Yahoo's web page this morning that the UK did not ban import of Russian arms. I went back to add the link and could no longer find the page. Why would the UK not ban importation of Russian arms, when the US would? Seems kinda strange to me.
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Old July 23, 2014, 09:03 AM   #28
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyvel
...I have been laboring under the conception (or possible misconception/misunderstanding) that imports from Russia have been sanctioned all along, and that all Russian surplus guns and material coming into the U.S. have been from former satellite SSRs and not from Russia itself.
They are sanctioned, but the sanctions are not absolute.

Small arms from the former USSR are subject to a 1996 trade agreement that limits what may be imported. The list can be found in § 27 CFR 47.52(b).

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...1-sec47-52.pdf

I'll confess that I don't know what all of the "MC"-prefix firearms are, but the Tokarev TT-33, Makarov PM, Dragunov SVD, PSM, SKS, SVT-38, SVT-40, and Kalashnikov rifle types other than the Saiga and VEPR* are notable in their absence.

Also, I'm not certain how the VEPR* 12 (and formerly the Saiga 12) get around the sanctions, as they're not rifles. Perhaps someone can fill me in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technosavant
I wonder if that has to do with cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
That's the crux of the matter. The main effect is going to be a cost increase due to the reduction in competition from relatively low cost Russian imports.
Precisely. AFAIK the VEPR* 12 now has the market for box-magazine semi-auto shotguns all to itself. Basic economics tells us that rising demand and a lack of competition results in higher prices, and we all know that rumors of impending bans tend to drive up demand in the American commercial arms market.

I don't believe that the Russians have magic Slavic gnomes who can assemble AK-pattern shotguns cheaper than anyone else in the world. I believe that the main factor that has made US gunmakers hesitant to produce these shotguns is a perceived lack of demand coupled with the cost of all-new tooling. However, if it can be demonstrated that people will happily pay $1,000+ for these shotguns, IMHO this will likely overcome their hesitation.

*Can anyone tell me for certain whether "VEPR/Vepr" is supposed to be capitalized?
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Last edited by carguychris; July 23, 2014 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Section removed, misread that part
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Old July 23, 2014, 10:03 AM   #29
Technosavant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troopcom
I read on Yahoo's web page this morning that the UK did not ban import of Russian arms. I went back to add the link and could no longer find the page. Why would the UK not ban importation of Russian arms, when the US would? Seems kinda strange to me.
I wonder if it would have something to do with the general ban on firearms ownership in the UK. It isn't a complete ban, but it is the next thing to it. With that being the case, there's not much point in prohibiting the import because it's not legal to have the things there anyway.
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Old July 23, 2014, 08:36 PM   #30
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A smart political move, maybe too smart to have been conceived by Obama. It will accomplish nothing, and Obama has already sold his soul to Putin, but any gun ban will be a hit with his left-wing base, and it neutralizes pro-gun people who can't be seen objecting to sanctions against Russia.

Neat!

Jim
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Old July 25, 2014, 11:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Century already makes the C93. It's an American-made rifle built on a milled receiver, and it retails for half the price of an Arsenal build.

There's an interesting parallel to the 1968 GCA. When the GCA outlawed the importation of European pocket pistols, domestic makers stepped up to fill the void.
The Century C93 is a .223 caliber HK91 clone

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com...863928cd2f.jpg

Last edited by Vanya; July 26, 2014 at 11:36 PM. Reason: removed copyrighted material.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
I wonder if it would have something to do with the general ban on firearms ownership in the UK. It isn't a complete ban, but it is the next thing to it. With that being the case, there's not much point in prohibiting the import because it's not legal to have the things there anyway.
LOL, nope. The UK is SELLING tons of arms to the Russians. They don't want anything to interrupt that.

http://rt.com/uk/175288-embargo-uk-arms-russia/
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Old July 25, 2014, 08:24 PM   #33
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I look at this as another gun grab.

Russia supplies most of the natural gas to Eastern and Western Europe.

That alone has allowed them to wield clout by shutting off gas delivery in winter to countries that aren't towing their line.

I speculate that AK exports are a very small part of their GDP.
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Old July 25, 2014, 11:29 PM   #34
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an infinitesimal part, if that, even. This move was a freebie for Obama, and I can hardly blame him taking it (heck, I admire the competence shown in recognizing a political opportunity with no downside and taking it, for a change). I fully expect a similar move on ammo at some point, but I'm sure he's waiting for another escalation before that happens. For some reason, we have to ramp up our foreign policy in incremental steps, like a stupid comic book super hero battle. We can't just tell him we're willing to bring in advisors that might get hit by their artillery if they don't knock this off (and if we aren't so willing, we'll never fool anybody with this charade so there's no point engaging in sanctions, even)

As far as the chest thumping people saying this is justified, recall that embargoes and even boycotts can be considered acts of war. If we aren't committed, don't commit falsely. It only sends mixed signals and leads to escalation and miscalculation. If we'd responded resolutely to the level of our commitment in the first place, the Russians could have seen where we stood, and decided to act or not. Instead, we sidle around the ring, each side getting more and more anxious, until someone blinks, or slips.

TCB
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Old July 27, 2014, 04:54 PM   #35
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Is Russian made ammo on the "ban list"?
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Old July 27, 2014, 11:54 PM   #36
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I think ammo is alright unless made by Kalashnikov Concern.
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Old July 29, 2014, 01:21 PM   #37
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Since the Chinese and Russians are our enemies anyway, perhaps we shouldn't be enriching them by buying their goods, no matter what they are??????

Just a thought
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Old July 29, 2014, 01:48 PM   #38
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Typed on your Chinese made computer?
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Old July 29, 2014, 05:39 PM   #39
Mokumbear
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Shopped at Wally World lately?

I made add, there is a lot of "it takes two tango" in these situations.

Enemies don't form in a vacuum.

There has to be a reason why our Russian and Chinese relations are
at a low point since the Reagan era. I don't think that benefits anyone.
We simply don't need ANY more enemies.

I love my country, but I sometimes wonder what it must be like to live in a
country that isn't hated by almost every other country.
Even a lot of our allies aren't crazy about us.
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Old July 29, 2014, 09:21 PM   #40
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General politics isn't the topic here.
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